ABUSIVE husband...

[followjesus777]

I'm sorry, but how can you know what's excusable before God? It's not like he says that even in the case of abuse you can't divorce. He never even mentions it.

If God doesn't specifically state something, that obviously means it's up to us to use our own judgement in the situation.

And you can't quote scripture like 7 Corinthians 8:11, because it's probably not relevant to our culture today.

Back then, the women didn't have rights like they do now. If a woman divorced and remarried, it was adultery, because she didn't have the right to break the marriage in the first place. Now you notice it says if a woman leaves she must remain single or be reconciled. It doesn't say ANYTHING about the husband not remarrying if he leaves, or the woman remarrying if the husband leaves, only if she leaves. That makes sense with what I just told you about the culture.

In the Jewish culture back then, only the husband could issue a legal divorce.

Now, in our culture, the women have just as much right as the men to issue a divorce, so that passage is irrelevant.

hmmm, yes i too am reminded of all the culture scriptures...woman cant speak in church, woman cant wear mens clothes(pants)women not to cut the hair etc etc etc.

But even more valid is knowing the Lord and His heart through the Person of the HolySpirit and the fruits there of to know His heart on this matter.

 

[AngelDove1]

The husband is considered the spiritual leader of the home. As such, he is held to a higher standard. Read Ephesians 5.

Yes IF......the husband is being lead by Gods word
and is in the churchs laws.

Not just cause He's a man,makes him
head of the house hold to do what ever.

He's to be an umberella to his family.
Guide them into Gods word and ways.

If your being abusive to your wife and or children....
What are you teaching them? Not God's ways thats for sure.
Where are the fruits of the spirit of God here?

Eph 5:22 NIV
Husbands LOVE your wives just as Christ LOVED the
church and gave himslf up for her,
to make her holy,cleansing her by
washing with water through the
WorD.

 

[AngelDove1]

Numbers 35
And if he pushes him down, or has thrown at him by lying in wait, and he dies; or if he has struck him with his hand in enmity, and he dies, the striker shall certainly be put to death; he is a murderer.

When the avenger of blood meets him he shall put to death the murderer. And if in an instant he pushed him without enmity, or has thrown at him anything without lying in wait; or with any stone without seeing, by which he dies, and has caused it to fall on him, and he dies, and he is not an enemy to him, nor seeking his evil; then the congregation shall judge between the striker and the avenger of blood, by these judgments.

And the congregation shall deliver the manslayer out of the avenger of blood's hand. And the congregation shall return him to the city of refuge to which he had fled, and he shall live in it until the high priest dies, he who was anointed with the holy oil.

Whoever kills any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses. And one witness shall not testify against a person, to die. And you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer; he is punishable for death, for dying he shall die.

And you shall take no ransom for him to flee to the city of his refuge, to return to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

And you shall not pollute the land in which you are, for blood pollutes the land. And no ransom is to be taken for the land for blood which is shed in it, except for the blood of him who sheds it.

And these things shall be to you for a statute of judgment for your generations, in all your dwellings.


Lev 24:17
'If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.

Lev 24:18
The one who takes the life of an animal shall make it good, life for life.

(Notice the high respect for animals... one would assume that a wife holds significantly higher respect)

Lev 24:21
Thus the one who kills an animal shall make it good, but the one who kills a man shall be put to death.

super point....heron

 

[snoochface]

Yes IF......the husband is being lead by Gods word
and is in the churchs laws.

Not just cause Hes a man,makes him
head of the house hold.
He's to be an umberella to his family.
Guide them into Gods word and ways.

This is like saying that it's not a sin against God to commit murder, or lie, or steal, if you are not being led by God's word or in the church's laws.

God's word, and his laws, and his commands, and his instructions, are for all of us, not just Christians. Jesus was talking to unbelievers when he said that divorce was not in God's will.

Jesus teaching the crowd in the sermon on the mount:

Mat 5:31 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';
Mat 5:32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Jesus speaking to the pharisees:

Mat 19:3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
Mat 19:4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
Mat 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Mat 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mat 19:7 They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" Mat 19:8 He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
Mat 19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Mat 19:10 The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
Mat 19:11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
Mat 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

 

[heron]

Because she has children the reality is that she will continue to have to deal with this man's abuse whether or not she is married to him.

Very true. But at least he will be distracted with the other women he chooses to spend time with. There are about ten more years of visitation exchanges, and a possible few years of legal battles.

Read the scripture yourself. Does he ever say anything about abuse? I think not.

That means it's a gray area. It's relative.

I see that you've chosen to ignore the multiple scriptures posted throughout this thread. God is not vague about abuse!


Deut 27:14, 25

Cursed is he who distorts the justice due an alien, orphan, and widow.' And all the people shall say, `Amen.'

'Cursed is he who strikes his neighbor in secret.' And all the people shall say, `Amen.'

(NEIGHBOR
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] friend, companion, fellow, another person

1. friend, intimate
2. fellow, fellow-citizen, another person (weaker sense)
3. other, another (reciprocal phrase))

[/FONT]
Deut 21:1 (anyone physically harmed)
"If a slain person is found lying in the open country in the landwhich the Lord your God gives you to possess, and it is not known who has struck Him and to him...then your elders and your judges shall go out...Then the priests, the sons of Levi, shall come near, for the Lord your God has chosen them to serve and bless in the name of the Lord; and every dispute and every assault shall be settled by them.

Exodus 21:18If men have a quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist, [both acting in violence] and he does not die but remains[SIZE=-1][/SIZE] in bed, if he gets up and walks around outside on his staff, then he who struck him shall go unpunished; he shall only pay for his loss [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]of time, and shall[SIZE=-1][/SIZE] take care of him until he is completely healed.


21:14 [Of marrying a captive woman after she mourns her dead relatives]It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes; but you shall certainly not sell her for money, you shall not mistreat her, because you have humbled her. 22:22 (adultery)
If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

(Allow the law of the land to handle the situation)

I am deeply saddened that we so quickly jump to sever a tie that God says is a lifetime committment RATHER than join in prayer for this family and believe that God can heal.

I'm sure we are all praying, no matter what opinions we may have. The scriptures I have given are not in resistance to prayer and healing.They are offering a well-rounded vision of God's will for our lives.

Myreedeemer has already spent decades of effort and prayer in trying to repair her marriage:

"i have been to christian councelling many many many times so has he over the years but still no love and abuse. he is diagnosed as a Narcissist(no empathy at all)he became a christian 15 years ago but no "fruits" of the Holy Spirit.he controls everything, i cannot even have some of my family over to my home. i am tired. He wont even leave i must get a lawyer if i decide to make him go. We have somes profitable businesses together PTL, but he will likely TRY to take it all and "punish" me as usual etc. i give this situation to Jesus...Thankyou for any prayers or further advice. Be abundantly blessed for sharing my burden.amen"

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=25791739&postcount=10

I do agree that additional romances and people involved will complicate everything, and should not be the motivation for breaking up a marriage.

Ex 20:17, Deut 5:21 (about both adultery and desire)You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


​

 

[snoochface]

Snoochface, it never says the husband can't divorce his wife.

As I said, in the Jewish culture back then only the husband could issue a legal divorce. If he wasn't even allowed to divorce in the first place that's sort of stupid isn't it?

Scotty, you are saying this because you do not believe that Paul's writing to the Corinthians - which I've quoted a couple of times now - is God's word. You think it's just Paul's word. We disagree on that. I don't see any use in picking and choosing what part of the Bible I will believe as God's word and what part I won't. I believe it's all God's word. You don't.

So yes, I see God's word saying that a man is not to divorce his wife. We are not talking about Jewish tradition or Jewish law anymore. We are talking about post-Jesus, when we are no longer under the law, but under the new covenant.

 

[myredeemerJESUSlives]

hmmm, yes i too am reminded of all the culture scriptures...woman cant speak in church, woman cant wear mens clothes(pants)women not to cut the hair etc etc etc.

But even more valid is knowing the Lord and His heart through the Person of the HolySpirit and the fruits there of to know His heart on this matter.

Beloved Sister Snoochface, may i ask if you adhere to these as well?

Scotty, you are saying this because you do not believe that Paul's writing to the Corinthians - which I've quoted a couple of times now - is God's word. You think it's just Paul's word. We disagree on that. I don't see any use in picking and choosing what part of the Bible I will believe as God's word and what part I won't. I believe it's all God's word. You don't.

So yes, I see God's word saying that a man is not to divorce his wife. We are not talking about Jewish tradition or Jewish law anymore. We are talking about post-Jesus, when we are no longer under the law, but under the new covenant.

 

[joyousliving]

Hey....How about we all agree that the OP needs the to seek the counsel of her pastor and the support of her local church.

She seems like a smart woman and has seen enough in 126+ posts to decide for herself.

ScottyL....I have to tell you that you are a very young man. You may want to consider how much you understand about marriage and whether or not you want to risk being wrong about this issue before God. Advising someone to divorce is a pretty serious issue.

 

[AngelDove1]

This is like saying that it's not a sin against God to commit murder, or lie, or steal, if you are not being led by God's word or in the church's laws.

Yes IF......the husband is being lead by Gods word
and is in the churchs laws.

Not just cause Hes a man,makes him
head of the house hold.
He's to be an umberella to his family.
Guide them into Gods word and ways.


ummmm...in general,
we are talking bout a husband being head of the house hold.

Eph 5:22 NIV
Husbands LOVE your wives just as Christ LOVED the
church and gave himslf up for her,
to make her holy,cleansing her by
washing with water through the
WorD.

So since he commited adultery,
(by God's law) should we put him to death?

Lev 20:10 NIV

 

[snoochface]

Beloved Sister Snoochface, may i ask if you adhere to these as well?

woman cant speak in church, woman cant wear mens clothes(pants)women not to cut the hair etc etc etc.

Yes, I believe that women should not teach or preach in church.

Women not cutting their hair and not dressing as men is, if I remember correctly, an Old Testament command. Please correct me if I am wrong. I admit that I do not have the New Testament memorized and may have missed something.

1 Timothy:
1Ti 2:9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,

This means to me to dress modestly, not calling attention to oneself, and not with flashy, expensive, show-offy jewelry. I do agree with that, yes.

1Ti 2:10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1Ti 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Ti 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Again, women should not teach or preach. I do not believe in women being pastors for this reason.

And yes, I agree with joyousliving - there are some basics we can all agree to in regards to the problem at hand. Everything else that we disagree on is taking away from the basic problem and potential solutions that can keep this woman safe and still leave her living in accordance with God's word.

 

[Tavita]

Scotty, you are saying this because you do not believe that Paul's writing to the Corinthians - which I've quoted a couple of times now - is God's word. You think it's just Paul's word. We disagree on that. I don't see any use in picking and choosing what part of the Bible I will believe as God's word and what part I won't. I believe it's all God's word. You don't.

So yes, I see God's word saying that a man is not to divorce his wife. We are not talking about Jewish tradition or Jewish law anymore. We are talking about post-Jesus, when we are no longer under the law, but under the new covenant.

This is all very well and good, but at the same time we have to be careful not to replace the Law of Moses with the Law of Paul. We are under a new covenant, the Law is fulfilled in Christ.

To say the Law is done away with and then put people under the Law again in the new covenant is ludicrous, and is actually sinful. None of the new covenant is to be seen as Law.

 

[snoochface]

This is all very well and good, but at the same time we have to be careful not to replace the Law of Moses with the Law of Paul. We are under a new covenant, the Law is fulfilled in Christ.

To say the Law is done away with and then put people under the Law again in the new covenant is ludicrous, and is actually sinful. None of the new covenant is to be seen as Law.

You're misunderstanding me. I am not suggesting that she, or we, or anyone is still under the law.

But as your signature so correctly reminds us, we are told that if we love Christ, we will obey him. And he has made it clear how God feels about divorce and how we need to approach it. We are commanded to turn away from sin. It is doing the OP a great disservice to counsel her that it is okay with God for her to divorce and remarry.

And look, the bottom line is, if she wants to do it she will do it. And she's not going to go to hell for it, nor will she lose her salvation over it. We worship a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. We ALL sin in one way or another, and God forgives us for it as soon as we repent because we are his children.

But don't we owe it to ourselves, to the father that we love, and to our savior to know what his word says and try to honor it to the best of our ability? If we can't, okay, if we don't, okay, God will forgive us. But we can't try to talk ourselves into believing that we are doing the right thing when we go against what his word says.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Tavita]

You're misunderstanding me. I am not suggesting that she, or we, or anyone is still under the law.

But as your signature so correctly reminds us, we are told that if we love Christ, we will obey him. And he has made it clear how God feels about divorce and how we need to approach it. We are commanded to turn away from sin. It is doing the OP a great disservice to counsel her that it is okay with God for her to divorce and remarry.

And look, the bottom line is, if she wants to do it she will do it. And she's not going to go to hell for it, nor will she lose her salvation over it. We worship a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. We ALL sin in one way or another, and God forgives us for it as soon as we repent because we are his children.

But don't we owe it to ourselves, to the father that we love, and to our savior to know what his word says and try to honor it to the best of our ability? If we can't, okay, if we don't, okay, God will forgive us. But we can't try to talk ourselves into believing that we are doing the right thing when we go against what his word says.

That's all I'm saying.

Okay, though I doubt if anyone in here has seriously advised her to remarry. Through Jesus own words she has more than enough grounds for divorce, if that is the way she wants to go. Her posts show that she would rather he repents and puts himself under Christ's authority as the head. So it seems to me that she does want to keep trying to stay married as long as it's not just a one sided thing.

 

[heron]

A separation is much cheaper and less destructive to the people involved. I'm not sure how long that can go on, but at least it keeps people safe from his reign of terror for a while.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](below, pasted from http://www.mamashealth.com/)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] National Domestic Violence Hotline for the United States and Canada: 1-800-799-Safe[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The National Domestic Violence Hotline is available to women 24 hours a day, seven days a week. When a victim calls this number, he or she will be referred to the closest help agency/hotline in the caller’s immediate area.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Women’s Shelters [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] There are secret shelters available throughout North America which offer refuge for women and children who have been victimized by domestic violence. Going to a shelter can save your life. You can learn more about the shelters in your area by contacting the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799 Safe, or by contacting a social worker or law official in your area.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marital rape is a form of domestic violence. It makes no difference if the person who rapes you is your spouse. Rape by a spouse is still rape and it is illegal.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Researchers believe that marital rape does as much, if not more, traumatic damage to the victim than rape by a stranger. While any case of rape is traumatic, when the perpetrator is a trusted spouse, the effects of the rape go very deep[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]from http://www.mamashealth.com/abuse/mrape.asp

see also
http://www.mamashealth.com/abuse/sabuse.asp
...both definining the circumstances as domestic abuse.

[/FONT]​

Order of Protection
​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You can get an Order of Protection against an abuser in Criminal Court or in Family Court. Most court houses will have an office that provides free legal aid to victims of domestic violence. The free legal aid is provided by attorneys and law students.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How to get an order of protection:

http://www.mamashealth.com/abuse/protection.asp


[/FONT]

National Directories​

1. Transition Houses and Shelters for Abused Women in Canada
2. Canada’s Treatment Programs for Men Who Abuse their Partners
3. Directory Services for Adult Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse
4. National Inventory of Treatment Programs for Child Sexual Abuse Offenders
5. Directory of Services and Programs for Older Adult Victims of Family Violence
6. Programs and Services for Men Who Are or Have Been Victims of Violence

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/index.html

National Clearinghouse on Family Violence
Family Violence Prevention Unit
Public Health Agency of Canada
(Address Locator: 1909D1)
9th Floor, Jeanne Mance Building
Tunney's Pasture
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 1B4
Telephone : 1-800-267-1291 or (613) 957-2938
TTY: 1-800-561-5643 or (613) 952-6396
Fax : (613) 941-8930
Email :
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/resources_e.html

 

[deb7648]

praying for you

 

[mercy0915]

That's very good, but it is very easy to fool yourself into thinking God said "yes" or "no" to something when it's really your own desire or fear. As someone who has done this himself, please guard against that and make sure your decisions are grounded in the Word.

Adultery is adultery (lusting after somone is adultery cause you are cheating with the heart!Matthew 5:28

 

[RobinD69]

After praying for many many many years to my Lord Jesus Christ, I wonder what God's will is for my life, and marriage.Verbal, Mental, Emotional, Spiritual, and sexual abuse throughout my marriage still not changing and i think he is unfaithful again, as he was at the begining of the marriage so many years ago. This loveless marriage has left me secretly falling in love with other Christian men who's only desire is to please the Lord, even just listening to male Christian artists leaves me falling in love with their spritual leadership and desire to please the Lord...I feel guilt but i cant stop it. I know the Lord doesnt want me to live like this but what to do?I submit myself to the Lord's will over my life, I cannot live like this anylonger.Help

Is your husband a believer or a non believer?