Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

[lifepsyop]

No, that may be what you are focusing on so you can ignore the fact that large objects that stand well above the horizon still have large amounts of the bottom of the structure hidden behind the horizon. You want to pretend the Chicago skyline doesn't exist.

I don't really want to say how stupid your response is, given that the video you linked earlier demonstrated exactly what is illustrated in the image above. Photos taken of the same oil platforms from the same location on different days, showed greater or lesser amounts of the bottom hidden behind the horizon depending on the refraction caused by the prevailing atmospheric conditions. You pre-debunked yourself!

Its exactly what was stated in the same video you linked. The pressure gradient of the atmosphere bends light downwards. Light reflected off the top of a tall building at a shallow downward angle is bent at a much steeper angle by the time it reaches the flat-earth observer on the ground, so for the observer, the top of the building appears to be in a straight line up at the sharper angle, thus it will appear higher than reality on a flat earth. I suggest you draw yourself some diagrams until you get your head around it.

OK?

I didn't allege any of what you just posted as evidence of a globe earth, so that was a complete waste of your time

Please show where I claimed the above clips where evidence of a globe earth. I've posted a number of other things but you don't seem to want to deal with what I've actually posted as evidence, you'd rather build a flimsy strawman so you can knock it down. You keep proving the maxim that "you gotta lie to flerf".

Okay good, so you agree we are not seeing evidence of ships, etc. disappearing over the supposed "curve of the earth".

I'm glad that is settled because there are many globe believers that still mistakenly believe that.

 

[lifepsyop]

"How They Fake All Southern Flights. GPS Meridian Distance Corrections,Flightradar24 lies,Jetstreams."
by channel "Flat Works"

Right off the bat he is lying. The jet streams do not account for the flight durations because flights go in both directions while the jetstreams only go in one direction. I don't know if I can be bothered watching any more of the video if he starts off so badly.

OK, watched a bit more. They claim aircraft use the jetstream in one direction and trade winds in the other, except that trade winds are capped at 13,000 feet, well below the cruising altitude of long haul passenger airlines. Gotta lie to flerf.

Can you give a timestamp for the part regarding trade winds?

Can you state your actual counter-argument to what they're stating in the video? I want to compare what you say to what they say and make sure you are interpreting it charitably and not just dismissing it with an inconsequential gotcha.


I thought it was a great presentation. They are obviously doing a lot of research in the primary literature and having thoughtful critical discussions about this subject, exploring it from many different angles. The video also contains some interesting pilot/expert interviews.

I was most interested in the discussion around the :30 minute mark about the original creation of the GPS coordinate systems... how the originators built in "Meridian corrections" that would automatically conform coordinates to their expected lines of longitude according to a globe-earth model.

Essentially this would mean that large swathes of the southern ocean could be mapped out incorrectly. ( Blasphemy!!! I know, I know! How could our modern priesthood of enlightened globe-geometers possibly be wrong! )

 

[prodromos]

Okay good, so you agree we are not seeing evidence of ships, etc. disappearing over the supposed "curve of the earth".

I'm glad that is settled because there are many globe believers that still mistakenly believe that.

As I said, I've posted plenty of examples of objects being hidden by the curve of the earth. Feel free to address what I've posted. I'm not going to waste time responding to false claims.

 

[prodromos]

Can you give a timestamp for the part regarding trade winds?

It's actually much worse for their argument. The Trade Winds only blow East to West near the equator. The southern Jet streams and the southern Trade winds both blow West to East.
And you think it is well researched?

 

[lifepsyop]

As I said, I've posted plenty of examples of objects being hidden by the curve of the earth. Feel free to address what I've posted. I'm not going to waste time responding to false claims.

We just went through this.

You will say that the object is either A. hidden by "earth curve" or.... B. visible from behind "earth curve" because of refraction.

It's not evidence of anything and you're just repeating what you believe to be true and calling anything that disagrees with it stupid.

 

[prodromos]

We just went through this.

In your imagination. You haven't refuted anything.

You will say that the object is either A. hidden by "earth curve" or.... B. visible from behind "earth curve" because of refraction.

There is refraction involved regardless. Something the basic earth curve calculator doesn't take into account, so there is almost always more of distant objects visible above the horizon than there would be if light travelled in straight lines. The amount of refraction varies, but it is always there.

It's not evidence of anything and you're just repeating what you believe to be true and calling anything that disagrees with it stupid.

The air pressure gradient of the atmosphere causes light to bend downwards. Do you dispute this? If so, please provide reputable sources that say otherwise.

 

[prodromos]

THis is how distant objects should look on a flat earth (demonstrating my leet MS Paint skilz)

 

[prodromos]

It's true, try it out.

People use such cameras when viewing the Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan all the time. Zooming in never brings the shoreline into view. The bottoms of the skyscrapers continue to be hidden behind the horizon.
As you keep proving, gotta lie to flerf.

 

[Apple Sky]

People use such cameras when viewing the Chicago skyline across Lake Michigan all the time. Zooming in never brings the shoreline into view. The bottoms of the skyscrapers continue to be hidden behind the horizon.
As you keep proving, gotta lie to flerf.

That's why Rob Skiba proved this not to be the case. Try again.

 

[prodromos]

That's why Rob Skiba proved this not to be the case. Try again.

No he didn't. He was out to prove it wasn't a mirage, but in the process he managed to confirm that the skyline was exactly as predicted by the globe model.

 

[lifepsyop]

THis is how distant objects should look on a flat earth (demonstrating my leet MS Paint skilz)

View attachment 352369

Nice picture.

So looking at your illustration, it seems you're assuming the atmosphere would refract distant objects in this way because you've always believed that earth's atmosphere is curved like in the image below... So even in a flat-earth model, you're still carrying over globe-earth assumptions.

You believe the atmosphere is curved like this, because you believe the earth is curved. These are the assumptions of your globe-earth model. (This is why you're projecting everything upwards in your illustration... to compensate for the lack of curved atmosphere)

However, if the earth is flat, then the atmosphere is flat, and thus we have never observed atmospheric refraction as illustrated above. It has been an imagination.

Actually, we don't observe "atmospheric curvature" at all... If you believe in a globe earth, then you just have to assume that light is bending in this way to resolve the fact that you're seeing objects like the Sun that should be totally occluded by the imagined curve of the earth... which is fine... there's nothing wrong with making that assumption to fit a globe-earth model, but it's a mistake to carry that assumption into a non-globe earth model.

 

[prodromos]

Nice picture.

So looking at your illustration, it seems you're assuming the atmosphere would refract distant objects in this way because you've always believed that earth's atmosphere is curved like in the image below... So even in a flat-earth model, you're still carrying over globe-earth assumptions.

View attachment 352381

So much fail.

Light is refracted because the atmosphere is a pressure gradient, not because the atmosphere is curved

You believe the atmosphere is curved like this, because you believe the earth is curved. These are the assumptions of your globe-earth model. (This is why you're projecting everything upwards in your illustration... to compensate for the lack of curved atmosphere)

Nope. Atmospheric refraction is caused by the pressure gradient of the atmosphere, not because of any curvature of the earth. Also, the earths atmosphere is less than 2% of the radius of the earth, so in your diagram above the atmosphere would only be a few pixels thick, not the grossly exagerated illustration you've given.

However, if the earth is flat, then the atmosphere is flat, and thus we have never observed atmospheric refraction as illustrated above. It has been an imagination.

Once again, atmospheric refraction is caused by the pressure gradient of the atmosphere, light passing from less dense air to more dense air. If you don't agree with this then provide reputable sources which state otherwise. I've asked you this once already and you have yet to provide anything.

Actually, we don't observe "atmospheric curvature" at all... If you believe in a globe earth, then you just have to assume that light is bending in this way to resolve the fact that you're seeing objects like the Sun that should be totally occluded by the imagined curve of the earth... which is fine... there's nothing wrong with making that assumption to fit a globe-earth model, but it's a mistake to carry that assumption into a non-globe earth model.

Your argument is a complete fail, a combination of logical fallacies.

 

[rturner76]

For being such super devoted Christians who have never read that the Earth is flat in the Bible. You sure like to bear false witness to join some kind of head in the sand club that believes something that has been proven wrong by traveling to outer space, global satellite imaging, and simple (well maybe not so simple) mathematics and physics that have been proven since before ancient Geeks confirmed a round Earth.

Are you guys able to do things like drive a car, grocery shop, go to work, and follow constellations? It would seem that believing the Earth is flat is so asinine that people who believe that may also believe that things like germs, viruses, and fungi, are actually just spirits or curses. This phenomenon is really weird. I don't know what to say, especially when nobody can actually point to a verse in the Bible that even says the Earth is flat yet that is what the whole belief is based on. I hope you guys can do things like balance a checkbook, pay bills on time, and practice grooming and good eating habits. I'm thoroughly confused how everyday people can believe this and not be consigned to hospitals for other delusionary beliefs.

I can't figure out id it's hilarious or just tragic.

 

[prodromos]

However, if the earth is flat, then the atmosphere is flat, and thus we have never observed atmospheric refraction as illustrated above. It has been an imagination.

You've linked to videos showing such atmospheric refraction (flat swan, black swan), so I guess you are arguing that the earth can't be flat now?

 

[lifepsyop]

So much fail.

Light is refracted because the atmosphere is a pressure gradient, not because the atmosphere is curved

Why are you telling me this? I already know the atmosphere isn't curved. You're the one who believes that.

The whole basis of your globe-earth model is that light is refracting around a curve.

Nope. Atmospheric refraction is caused by the pressure gradient of the atmosphere, not because of any curvature of the earth.

Again, I already know this because there is no curvature of the earth.... "earth curve" isn't even a factor to consider in reality.

Maybe deep down you realize a spherical geometry of the earth does not actually exist in real life, and that's why you don't bother accounting for it?

 

[prodromos]

Why are you telling me this? I already know the atmosphere isn't curved. You're the one who believes that.

The whole basis of your globe-earth model is that light is refracting around a curve.

View attachment 352400



Again, I already know this because there is no curvature of the earth.... "earth curve" isn't even a factor to consider in reality.

Maybe deep down you realize a spherical geometry of the earth does not actually exist in real life, and that's why you don't bother accounting for it?

So much fail
Let me know when you are ready to address my actual arguments, not the strawman you've constructed.

 

[Apple Sky]

This phenomenon is really weird. I don't know what to say, especially when nobody can actually point to a verse in the Bible that even says the Earth is flat yet that is what the whole belief is based on.

There's a difference between a circle & ball ...........

King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

King James Bible
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

 

[lifepsyop]

You've linked to videos showing such atmospheric refraction (flat swan, black swan), so I guess you are arguing that the earth can't be flat now?

Fine, if you want to nitpick. Of course I don't believe the earth is a perfectly flat plane. It has plains, peaks, and valleys. The atmo"sphere" is basically a terrain, and light refracts through it.

edit: The terrain of atmosphere is always fluctuating throughout the year, and as a result so do the conditions of refracted light, either causing the image to have the quality of "looming" (concave horizon) upwards or "sinking" (convex horizon) downwards, (or relatively level and low refraction) , at various points on the horizon respective of an observer. (examples provided a page back) ...

I picture the atmosphere as a constantly morphing glass-lens volume or prism, always causing the horizon to bend slightly up or down at varying degrees, the effect of which necessarily causes the appearance of a raising or sinking of a horizon line.

 

[lifepsyop]

So much fail
Let me know when you are ready to address my actual arguments, not the strawman you've constructed.

Can you admit that there is nothing about any observed atmospheric refraction that leads you to think that the earth is spherical?

In other words... your globe-earth model either explains the phenomenon or it doesn't. Which is it?

If not, then we can move on because there is no point in arguing over non-evidence for our worldviews, is there?

 

[rturner76]

There's a difference between a circle & ball ...........

King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

King James Bible
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

These verses say absolutely NOTHING about a flat Earth. Why do you continue to let yourself be deceived? Is it a style, a cult, or just some kind of special club that you feel a part of? The Bible says nothing like the Earth is flat and your Biblical quotes fall flat as well. Why not see sense? You do know that a sphere is also a circle in 3 dimensions. This is some kind of fad. Why do you believe this farce?

So are you now saying a sphere is not circular? Is it square? Is it rectangular? Is it a trapezoid? Of course, a ball is circular. How do you get through life believing in such delusions? Are you friends with people who believe this in the physical, not online world? How do everyday people you work with and spend time with react to your delusion? Are the sympathetic? Do they just shake their heads and say whatever? How do people react to this way of thinking in person? I am really curious how people in your everyday life treat you when they find out you can't comprehend a spherical Earth when you can look at it in real time.

Is being contrary to all proven facts and logic somehow entertaining?