Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

[JSRG]

The only religion I am aware of that insists the world is flat is Islam, because Muhammed in one hadith stated that the world was not round, but rather the disappearance of ships over the horizon was an optical illusion. However, most Muslims ignore this, which is why there are large Islamic airlines, since air travel absolutely depends upon an understanding of the correct geometry of the world. Navigation as well.

What hadith was this in? I tried to search but couldn't find anything. Even this page, which takes a very critical view of Islam in this matter and is trying to argue the Qur'an and hadiths teach a flat Earth, never mentions this as far as I can see.

 

[The Liturgist]

I would also note that if you have any concerns regarding safety and aviation, air travel remains the safest mode of transportation in Europe and North America; it is safer even than rail travel, which has an admirable safety record, but in North America due to level crossings and also poor maintenance on some urban and suburban networks, particularly Boston, rail travel is not as safe as it should be. The safest form of transport in the world is probably the Shinkansen system of high speed trains in Japan, but outside of that, aviation is amazingly safe.

People fear it because of the high media attention accidents obtain, but the system has become incredibly safe.

 

[The Liturgist]

What hadith was this in? I tried to search but couldn't find anything. Even this page, which takes a very critical view of Islam in this matter and is trying to argue the Qur'an and hadiths teach a flat Earth, never mentions this as far as I can see.

I can’t recall the specific hadith, but Islam is clearly a flat Earth religion. For example, there is the wacky verse 86 in Surah 18 where Dhul-Qarnayn (Alexander the Great) encounters the setting sun resting in the water at the edge of the world, and then gets hired by some local people to build a wall between a gap in the mountains. And there is plenty more of this. Indeed the Quran teaches that Allah spread the Earth like a bed, if I recall, and then placed the mountains as pegs or spikes or tethers to hold it in place.

 

[d taylor]

Yes it does, because travel times in the southern continents would be significantly longer if the Earth were flat. Specifically, the argument that has been advanced by various flat Earth members is that there are no non-stop flights between South America, Africa and Australia, but this is not true, and the existence of such flights means that the Flat Earth model in which the continents radiate out from the North Pole on a planar surface with a domed sky overhead is wrong.

Particularly since the Great Circle Route, which predicts the shortest path between two points on the Earth, inverts in the Southern Hemisphere.

So even if you insist on calling people in NASA liars and so on, which I think is an unpleasant thing to do given the tragic losses of life on Columbia and Challenger, you cannot dispute the raw facts of aviation.

Also, food for thought: if you did travel by air you would be able to see more clearly the shape of the world from an altitude, as I have.

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You can bring up all the science you want. But the fact is when i look at the moon i am not looking at an object that is 200,000+ miles away from earth in an outer space. this is especially obvious when the moon is seen during the day and the blue sky is behind the moon. I also see the sun, moon and stars moving over the earth.

You can not even prove the moon is a sphere, the only thing you or anyone else on earth can prove is the moon is circular in shape.

 

[d taylor]

I would also note that if you have any concerns regarding safety and aviation, air travel remains the safest mode of transportation in Europe and North America; it is safer even than rail travel, which has an admirable safety record, but in North America due to level crossings and also poor maintenance on some urban and suburban networks, particularly Boston, rail travel is not as safe as it should be. The safest form of transport in the world is probably the Shinkansen system of high speed trains in Japan, but outside of that, aviation is amazingly safe.

People fear it because of the high media attention accidents obtain, but the system has become incredibly safe.

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I have no where i need to go that i would need to fly in a plane as i am not a traveler. All i need is a landscape that needs to be painted and i have plenty of this where i live.

 

[trophy33]

this is especially obvious when the moon is seen during the day and the blue sky is behind the moon.​

The blue sky is not behind the moon, but in front of it.

 

[The Liturgist]

You can bring up all the science you want. But the fact is when i look at the moon i am not looking at an object that is 200,000+ miles away from earth in an outer space. this is especially obvious when the moon is seen during the day and the blue sky is behind the moon. I also see the sun, moon and stars moving over the earth.

I am not bringing up science, I am bringing up airline schedules which would be impossible to keep if the world was not globular. Yet the airlines are flying them.

As far as the moon is concerned, how do you know how far away it is? You’re guessing based on a visual analogy which is flawed.

 

[The Liturgist]

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I have no where i need to go that i would need to fly in a plane as i am not a traveler. All i need is a landscape that needs to be painted and i have plenty of this where i live.

I have no qualms with you painting landscapes to your hearts content wherever you want to live. My problem is the large number of people you are accusing of lying, based on misconceptions which can literally be corrected by reading the timetables of certain airlines.

And if you don’t believe those timetables, perhaps fly them before accusing the millions of people who work in aerospace, astronomy, commercial navigation, electronics engineering, civil engineering, and physics of lying and engaging in a conspiracy theory?

 

[Yttrium]

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You can not even prove the moon is a sphere, the only thing you or anyone else on earth can prove is the moon is circular in shape.

Just watching the Moon pass overhead at night demonstrates that it's not just a flat disk. Otherwise. it would look more and more like an oval rather than a circle near the horizons. We'd see the edge. That in itself doesn't demonstrate a sphere, but there has to be some curve to it.

Of course, when we start coordinating observations with people in other countries or continents who are seeing the Moon at the same time, then it would have to be a sphere. But we know you don't do that.

 

[prodromos]

As I post this, both Africa and South America are in darkness. People living on the Southern tip of these continents can look due South and will be looking at the same group of stars clustered around the South celestial pole. They both see the Southern Cross and the "pointers", Alpha Centauri and Hadar, the only difference is the stars are rotated slightly around the South celestial pole.

The problem flat earthers have is that on their model the direction the observers on these two continents are looking is almost 90 degrees apart, so they could not possibly be looking at the same stars. The fact that they are, completely demolishes the flat earth model but is entirely consistent with the globe model.

 

[lifepsyop]

View attachment 350936
As I post this, both Africa and South America are in darkness. People living on the Southern tip of these continents can look due South and will be looking at the same group of stars clustered around the South celestial pole. They both see the Southern Cross and the "pointers", Alpha Centauri and Hadar, the only difference is the stars are rotated slightly around the South celestial pole.

The problem flat earthers have is that on their model the direction the observers on these two continents are looking is almost 90 degrees apart, so they could not possibly be looking at the same stars. The fact that they are, completely demolishes the flat earth model but is entirely consistent with the globe model.

Here is a flat earth response to that, using perspective visual demonstrations. it's actually pretty interesting:

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[prodromos]

Here is a flat earth response to that, using perspective visual demonstrations. it's actually pretty interesting:

x.com

x.com

People like that shouldn't be allowed to drive. It is dangerous how confidently wrong a person can be.

 

[lifepsyop]

People like that shouldn't be allowed to drive. It is dangerous how confidently wrong a person can be.

I don't know if it is correct, but the physical demonstrations made sense to me. By all means tear it to shreds if it's so stupid.

 

[prodromos]

I don't know if it is correct, but the physical demonstrations made sense to me. By all means tear it to shreds if it's so stupid.

Start by looking at his diagram at 2:25 and just before where he says "sun = polaris".

• Even on the flat earth model, the sun is not ever located above the North pole
• Even if the sun was in that position, it makes no sense to claim it rotates and causes crepuscular rays to rotate. Crepuscular rays are caused by sunlight passing through gaps in the clouds. They don't rotate.
• He appears to be claiming that the stars are actually rays of sunlight, except that the sun appears to move East to West. It doesn't sit in the North and 'rotate'
• Anti-crepuscular rays are much weaker than crepuscular rays, yet stars in the Southern sky are just as bright as stars in the Northern sky

I haven't watched much further because I can only take stupid in small doses

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't know if it is correct, but the physical demonstrations made sense to me. By all means tear it to shreds if it's so stupid.

If you can’t understand that, perhaps you can address the one issue no one can answer, that being airline flights between Australia, Africa and South America not only existing, contrary to Flat Earther claims, but having a travel time predicted by the distance given by the model of the spheroid Earth at their maximum safe cruising speed, rather than the much longer travel time predicted by the Flat Earth model, where these continents are much further apart.

 

[The Liturgist]

Start by looking at his diagram at 2:25 and just before where he says "sun = polaris".

• Even on the flat earth model, the sun is not ever located above the North pole
• Even if the sun was in that position, it makes no sense to claim it rotates and causes crepuscular rays to rotate. Crepuscular rays are caused by sunlight passing through gaps in the clouds. They don't rotate.
• He appears to be claiming that the stars are actually rays of sunlight, except that the sun appears to move East to West. It doesn't sit in the North and 'rotate'
• Anti-crepuscular rays are much weaker than crepuscular rays, yet stars in the Southern sky are just as bright as stars in the Northern sky

I haven't watched much further because I can only take stupid in small doses

I am just flabbergasted that none of the Flat Earth people has even tried to explain the flights between your country, South Africa, and Chile, and the flights between South Africa and Buenos Aires. Presumably they know that’s going to be a losing argument, since their supposed Flat Earth geometry is based on an azimuthal equidistant projection with a dome-shaped firmament, which would render the distances between the southern continents too great for airline travel between them to be even remotely economical. I mean as it is the only reason why routes like SYD-JNB work is due to the Boeing 787, which is perfect for secondary city pairs - in prior decades such services were subsidized by the governments of South Africa and Australia.

 

[prodromos]

If you can’t understand that, perhaps you can address the one issue no one can answer, that being airline flights between Australia, Africa and South America not only existing, contrary to Flat Earther claims, but having a travel time predicted by the distance given by the model of the spheroid Earth at their maximum safe cruising speed, rather than the much longer travel time predicted by the Flat Earth model, where these continents are much further apart.

What I find is often the case with flat earthers, is that their attempt to explain one phenomenon usually breaks their attempt to explain another. They do not have one over encompassing model which can explain everything we observe (unlike the globe model) but instead have different models to try and explain different things, which end up contradicting their other explanations.

 

[prodromos]

I am just flabbergasted that none of the Flat Earth people has even tried to explain the flights between your country, South Africa, and Chile, and the flights between South Africa and Buenos Aires. Presumably they know that’s going to be a losing argument, since their supposed Flat Earth geometry is based on an azimuthal equidistant projection with a dome-shaped firmament, which would render the distances between the southern continents too great for airline travel between them to be even remotely economical. I mean as it is the only reason why routes like SYD-JNB work is due to the Boeing 787, which is perfect for secondary city pairs - in prior decades such services were subsidized by the governments of South Africa and Australia.

Southern Hemisphere flights are the best way to silence Flat earthers. They have no explanation whatsoever and will usually pretend they don't exist.

 

[The Liturgist]

Southern Hemisphere flights are the best way to silence Flat earthers. They have no explanation whatsoever and will usually pretend they don't exist.

They seem to be in this case. Invoking them has silenced all three recent Flat Earth conspiracy threads. I suspected they would come back with some attempted counter-argument but nope.

 

[lifepsyop]

Start by looking at his diagram at 2:25 and just before where he says "sun = polaris".

• Even on the flat earth model, the sun is not ever located above the North pole
• Even if the sun was in that position, it makes no sense to claim it rotates and causes crepuscular rays to rotate. Crepuscular rays are caused by sunlight passing through gaps in the clouds. They don't rotate.
• He appears to be claiming that the stars are actually rays of sunlight, except that the sun appears to move East to West. It doesn't sit in the North and 'rotate'
• Anti-crepuscular rays are much weaker than crepuscular rays, yet stars in the Southern sky are just as bright as stars in the Northern sky

I haven't watched much further because I can only take stupid in small doses

Okay... maybe you should keep watching it because he is obviously not arguing that the sun and the stars are the same thing.

He is drawing an analogy in how perspective of a celestial body can appear inverted, depending on which horizon you're looking at.