Abortion

[Luther073082]

I'm just saying that it happens a lot; gangs and etc... and it's a drain on society, and adoption does not always go well either; same with foster families. If a kid grows up in a bad household they will probably turn to gangs or drugs, and that's not really judging the person before they're born, it's just likely. There is really no good solution and I'm just standing up for those people who choose another path. I personally would never do it, but I still stand by the fact that women should still be able to choose. Yours and my morals and choices are not everyone's. I know it's a far stretch to say that if they're not aborted they will become a gang member... etc... but I'm just saying; not every adopting family is going to be a good family.

Do any of you who don't believe in abortion have friends that have had one? I mean really good friends, not acquaintances. I'm just curious.

I've met some people who've had abortions, both people that would do it again and people who are devistated by it. I can't say any of them where close friends though.

I understand what you are saying and if I just use my left brain then you are right its *logical* because of the population and other problems. But here is the problem, my left brain is utterly and completly ruthless on what is logical. I have to tap into God and my emotions in order to be human. And God has told me by the bible that its a baby at conception.

And I have come to belive it now, and I have also realized that unless someone is raped then abortion is just a person's way to get themselves out of taking responsibility.

And thats a big seller on me. It would be different if you didn't make a choice to get pregnant (IE rape) but if you arn't raped, its a choice. And its not your child's fault that you made a bad choice.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

I do know people who have had abortions but not good friends no. My best friend was very good friends with a girl who had one (ie. my friend was her only confidante) and that girl who decided to have one was completely shattered afterwards, abortion did not fix her situation, it made it 100 times worse.

I am totally against abortion, for any reason, and yes that includes rape. Though I am not so heartless as to judge ANYONE who chooses this, I do think that the poor women who choose this feel that they in fact have no choice. I just know that God ALWAYS has another way...
I also believe that there is a lot of pressure around women considering this choice - so they are usually rushed into it. I think women need to be properly counselled for at least a few weeks before any decision is made - but generally that does not happen, because we are told ''the longer you wait the harder it will be, so hurry up and do it"

 

[Blank123]

to the OP, thats a very hypocritical situation.

Perhaps women who are in that situation will get scared and confused and make the wrong choice because they couldn't think clearly but a woman who is not in that situation and has decided already to get an abortion should she ever be in that situation has made herself a liar by stating that she is against abortion.

 

[ciaradawn]

I agree; it's a way to get out of responsibility and I don't agree with it. I have a friend who had one and she's still happy she did; and I don't view her any differenty even though I don't agree with it. So yeah, I think it's wrong.

 

[Calliso]

I donlt think it is really fair to say that people have abortions just to get out of responsiblity. It is easy to make such sweeping claims when your not in the situation that person is in.

 

[ciaradawn]

I donlt think it is really fair to say that people have abortions just to get out of responsiblity. It is easy to make such sweeping claims when your not in the situation that person is in.

I agree. You're right, you can't say ALWAYS and NEVER

 

[Luther073082]

I donlt think it is really fair to say that people have abortions just to get out of responsiblity. It is easy to make such sweeping claims when your not in the situation that person is in.

Unless she was raped then that is the only logical reason.

You had sex, now take care of your kid. I don't care if you have to drop out of school and get a crappy job. I don't care what kind of impact this has on your life. You had sex. That was a choice, this is the consequences. All my choices have consequences. For some reason we think sex should not have consequences and if it does we should be able to murder someone to avoid them.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I'm just saying that it happens a lot; gangs and etc... and it's a drain on society, and adoption does not always go well either; same with foster families. If a kid grows up in a bad household they will probably turn to gangs or drugs, and that's not really judging the person before they're born, it's just likely. There is really no good solution and I'm just standing up for those people who choose another path. I personally would never do it, but I still stand by the fact that women should still be able to choose. Yours and my morals and choices are not everyone's. I know it's a far stretch to say that if they're not aborted they will become a gang member... etc... but I'm just saying; not every adopting family is going to be a good family.

Do any of you who don't believe in abortion have friends that have had one? I mean really good friends, not acquaintances. I'm just curious.

Even if they were to become a serial killer, by God's law we are in no place to decide whether they live or die based on some foolish assumption.

 

[Calliso]

Unless she was raped then that is the only logical reason.

You had sex, now take care of your kid. I don't care if you have to drop out of school and get a crappy job. I don't care what kind of impact this has on your life. You had sex. That was a choice, this is the consequences. All my choices have consequences. For some reason we think sex should not have consequences and if it does we should be able to murder someone to avoid them.

The thing I think your missing though..is that if the parent is in a bad life situation then guess who also suffers? I think people forget it's not just the parent or parents being punished for daring to have sex...the one/ones who suffer the most are the kids in the crappy situations. I mean at least the parents made a choice and at least the parents have a chance of getting out of that situation even if it is an extremely small one. But the kids donlt. And that is why I say some abortions are done thinking of the child/children. People look at the life situation they are in..and think do I want my child to live a life like this? NO! I much rather someone get an abortion and clean up their life and what not, then have a kid and have that kid have to grow up in a really crappy situation. Also one could say abortion IS a way of dealing with the consequences. I mean getting an abortion isn;t a walk in the park from what I hear. It can be painful..and even deadly. Not to mention it apparently can make you infertile too though not so sure on that one. But either way most people in their right mind donlt take abortion lightly it is not an easy decision for most. And for those donlt take it seriously I have to question if they even understand what happens whne you get an abortion. But really a woman has no choice really but to deal with the consequences when she has sex and gets pregnant. And sorry but it cracks me up when a man spouts something about facing the consequences of sex! And the thing is men donlt have to face the consequences of sex like women do. If a man doesn;t want a baby he can walk away. And yes their are laws..but do you think the laws catch every deadbeat dad? Not to mention if the couple isn;t married I am not even sure if the law even applies there! But my point is usually the man can walk away. The woman can;t just do that though..she is forced to make a tough decision.

 

[die2live]

The thing I think your missing though..is that if the parent is in a bad life situation then guess who also suffers? I think people forget it's not just the parent or parents being punished for daring to have sex...the one/ones who suffer the most are the kids in the crappy situations. I mean at least the parents made a choice and at least the parents have a chance of getting out of that situation even if it is an extremely small one. But the kids donlt. And that is why I say some abortions are done thinking of the child/children. People look at the life situation they are in..and think do I want my child to live a life like this? NO! I much rather someone get an abortion and clean up their life and what not, then have a kid and have that kid have to grow up in a really crappy situation. Also one could say abortion IS a way of dealing with the consequences. I mean getting an abortion isn;t a walk in the park from what I hear. It can be painful..and even deadly. Not to mention it apparently can make you infertile too though not so sure on that one. But either way most people in their right mind donlt take abortion lightly it is not an easy decision for most. And for those donlt take it seriously I have to question if they even understand what happens whne you get an abortion. But really a woman has no choice really but to deal with the consequences when she has sex and gets pregnant. And sorry but it cracks me up when a man spouts something about facing the consequences of sex! And the thing is men donlt have to face the consequences of sex like women do. If a man doesn;t want a baby he can walk away. And yes their are laws..but do you think the laws catch every deadbeat dad? Not to mention if the couple isn;t married I am not even sure if the law even applies there! But my point is usually the man can walk away. The woman can;t just do that though..she is forced to make a tough decision.

I get what you're saying, but I disagree, at least on the part about abortion being the best option for the baby. Adoption is ALWAYS an option for an unwanted American baby. Yes, it gets harder as the child gets older, but there are fifteen couples for each prospective adoptee. There is no reason to say that dying is better than adoption for the child. If you're prochoice, fine. But if your reason for being prochoice has anything to do with the best interests of the baby, you may want to reconsider that; it's not a good reason. Of course, I know you have other reasons, but for those who don't, seriously reconsider. Abortion has NOTHING to do with the best interests of the baby.

I do agree with you about the tough choices part. I've met so many women in crisis pregnancies, more than enough to realize there is no easy choice. That doesn't mean there isn't a right or wrong choice, but certainly no easy one.

 

[Luther073082]

I don't think there is a reason to say that dying is a better option then poverty either.

Like I said when you are willing to kill a child to save them from being poor eventually that logic can be extended to killing all the poor.

 

[ciaradawn]

The thing I think your missing though..is that if the parent is in a bad life situation then guess who also suffers? I think people forget it's not just the parent or parents being punished for daring to have sex...the one/ones who suffer the most are the kids in the crappy situations. I mean at least the parents made a choice and at least the parents have a chance of getting out of that situation even if it is an extremely small one. But the kids donlt. And that is why I say some abortions are done thinking of the child/children. People look at the life situation they are in..and think do I want my child to live a life like this? NO! I much rather someone get an abortion and clean up their life and what not, then have a kid and have that kid have to grow up in a really crappy situation. Also one could say abortion IS a way of dealing with the consequences. I mean getting an abortion isn;t a walk in the park from what I hear. It can be painful..and even deadly. Not to mention it apparently can make you infertile too though not so sure on that one. But either way most people in their right mind donlt take abortion lightly it is not an easy decision for most. And for those donlt take it seriously I have to question if they even understand what happens whne you get an abortion. But really a woman has no choice really but to deal with the consequences when she has sex and gets pregnant. And sorry but it cracks me up when a man spouts something about facing the consequences of sex! And the thing is men donlt have to face the consequences of sex like women do. If a man doesn;t want a baby he can walk away. And yes their are laws..but do you think the laws catch every deadbeat dad? Not to mention if the couple isn;t married I am not even sure if the law even applies there! But my point is usually the man can walk away. The woman can;t just do that though..she is forced to make a tough decision.

I agree with you.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Yeah, but beyond all of this, all the circumstances, this stands above all. God's command.
As Christians, we should honor this and tell others to honor it.

Do not murder.

 

[ciaradawn]

blah blah blah

 

[kingoffools13]

blah blah blah

that is a rather disrespectful response and pretty childish ... if you don't like what someone says it doesn't mean you should treat them with disdain, if this is the kind of reaction that you give to people it really says all sorts of things about how you interact with people, its no wonder you are not concerned with those that are as of yet unborn.

K
O
f

 

[Calliso]

I get what you're saying, but I disagree, at least on the part about abortion being the best option for the baby. Adoption is ALWAYS an option for an unwanted American baby. Yes, it gets harder as the child gets older, but there are fifteen couples for each prospective adoptee. There is no reason to say that dying is better than adoption for the child. If you're prochoice, fine. But if your reason for being prochoice has anything to do with the best interests of the baby, you may want to reconsider that; it's not a good reason. Of course, I know you have other reasons, but for those who don't, seriously reconsider. Abortion has NOTHING to do with the best interests of the baby.

I do agree with you about the tough choices part. I've met so many women in crisis pregnancies, more than enough to realize there is no easy choice. That doesn't mean there isn't a right or wrong choice, but certainly no easy one.

The thing is though..I hear there is alot of people waiting to adopt. But the thing is there are also more then enough kids for all these people waiting to adopt!. I think from what I have heard the problem is..people want the perfect child. So I may be wrong but perhaps it would be more accruate to say..there is only one wanted adoptee for every 15 couples that wants to adopt. :/

 

[ciaradawn]

that is a rather disrespectful response and pretty childish ... if you don't like what someone says it doesn't mean you should treat them with disdain, if this is the kind of reaction that you give to people it really says all sorts of things about how you interact with people, its no wonder you are not concerned with those that are as of yet unborn.

K
O
f

No, you really don't know anything about me. And I know that was childish. I'm getting tired of reading the same thing over and over. It's brick walls on both sides in here.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

I do understand what you are all saying, but I have to say that I think we are getting into very dangerous territory when we start talking about quality of life being a reason for death. Yes the child may have a horrible life, but we just don't know - only God knows, and at least give that child a life and a chance! They may have a low quality of life (by whose definition I wonder...), but that's better than zero quality of life (death).

I just keep coming back to it is not our place to judge whether another life is worth living.

And Calliso, I have to address what you said about what an abortion is like, generally people are told that it will be 'quick' with 'some discomfort' that it will get 'harder if you wait', 'minimal risks'. I certainly don't think that women considering this choice take it lightly (well I know some that do but most don't), but at the same time I don't think women are counselled effectively and properly about their options.

I don't care if someone is pro-choice, but remember the word 'choice', they don't HAVE to have an abortion either...

 

[ciaradawn]

Ok, I know that we're not going to come to an agreement on wether it's right or wrong; but what about the legal aspect of telling a woman that she can't have one?

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

I still don't think that abortion being legal is right - becaues I think it undermines God - however I do understand the argument of providing a safe service (if infact it is regulated properly...) vs 'backyard' abortions - and I think it's a good argument, I don't have the answer to it... In a perfect world we wouldn't need this service at all - I know we don't live in a perfect world but abortion grieves me none the less...

Basically (if I understand your question properly - which I may not ) I don't think that it is my (or anyone's - except the parents in the case of minors) place to tell ANYONE else what to do, it is my place to make sure they have the full information and emotional support to make their choice competently...

You're right though, we are at a bit of a stale-mate here! That's ok!