Abortion

[Jetgirl]

The horrid thing is: Men are sperm donors.


They contribute thirty seconds of pleasurable activity, and the woman goes through nine months of incredible physical difficulties, which (and I don't think most men realise THIS) can be extremely life-threatening. Even morning-sickness can be life threatening in some forms. Even the most normal pregancy is, at best, extremely uncomfortable.

Until a man goes through this personally (hearing about it from your spouse doesn't count) without the option to just walk away, I think their say should be very small and quiet.

And I'm not advocating abortion here, I personally hope that we can get to a point where it's unnecessary, but making it illegal won't help. What I'm saying is that as long as men don't have to do the dirty work, their claims on the small bit of DNA they contributed is basically null, IMO.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I think that making a woman carry a pregnancy that results from a rape is one of the most horrible things a person can do to another, as bad and worse than the rape itself.

And I think killing an innocent child is one of the most horrible things someone can do to another.

Rob

 

[In A Perfect World]

And I think killing an innocent child is one of the most horrible things someone can do to another.

Rob

That's nice, but for the first few eeks of pregnancy, the :fetus: is nothing but a clump of cells with human potential. Woman have natural abortions triggered by her body all the time. In fact, the pill doesn't prevent fertilization, just sticking of the embryo to the uterine wall. So women on the pill I suppose have as many abortions a month as they have sex. Thousands of times more guilty than one woman who has one abortion.

 

[]RiSeN[]

The fact is that the man truly has NO say in the matter. A pregnant woman can abort or not abort; the man gets no say whatsoever (unless she allows for his input - but her decision is the one that counts). And yes, this means that the man should not be asked for child support. If he has no authority over whether or not the child will be born, he should have no responsibility for the decision that it be born.

And with that line of reasoning we should be able to sue the women who get pregnant without our consent.

 

[gwenmead]

Y'know, I swore to myself when I joined this forum that I wouldn't get involved in an abortion discussion... I said to myself that I wouldn't, because every abortion discussion I've seen, heard, or read has been essentially the same as every other. Inevitably, it's always one set of opinions in the pro-choice camp vs. another set in the pro-life camp, both sides equally vocal about denouncing the other, both sides using the same arguments over and over again, in an endless squabble of "it's X way" "no it isn't!" "yes it is!" ad nauseum. There are good points on both sides of the issue, but they always get lost amidst the inevitable frustration that arises.

So I have a few questions.

Why continue an argument which is not going to reach a resolution as it is argued? For people on both sides, what are you arguing for? I'm not trying to be a smartaleck here, either, I want to know: what is your purpose in arguing your particular position? Is it to try and change someone else's mind? Is it because you like to argue? Some other reason?

Since it seems to me (again, life experience and observation talking here) that neither side of the issue really thinks that abortion is a good thing (for the pro-life side it amounts to murder, for the pro-choice side it amounts to a difficult choice probably no one wants to feel compelled to make, in a nutshell), what is it that prevents each group from realizing that a common goal is to reduce abortions as much as possible? And what prevents each group from being able to work with the other to achieve that?

Would it simply boil down to more arguments about how to go about it? Abstinence vs. birth control? More ways for each group to claim the moral high ground and keep yelling louder about it? More government control? Less? What, really?

Does anybody here actually know specifically why women have abortions in the first place? I mean okay, the first answer is because they don't want to have a child - but what are the more specific reasons? Because I'd think that a first step in reducing abortions would be to find out why they happen, and address *those* specific issues. Like poverty, or failed birth control, or rape, or incest, or whatever.

And honestly, I don't want to hear an assumed answer to that last paragraph. Unless you know from personal experience someone who's aborted, or unless you can provide statistics from a quotable source, please don't assume reasons. Heck, I certainly don't know what a woman's personal reasons are for having an abortion, and I'm not going to assume it's one thing or another. (Really, I guess, I'm the only woman I can speak for, and I deliberately haven't raised my position because I wanted to discuss the interaction between both pro-life and pro-choice folks, as I've observed it.)

Well, so anyhoo - there I go, I entered the debate anyway! <lol> These are all really just questions that are food for thought; if I tick people off, well, I guess I tick 'em off, but hopefully I haven't broken any Official Rules...

Thanks for reading my long post, at any rate.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

And with that line of reasoning we should be able to sue the women who get pregnant without our consent.

Why? It's their body...no business of mine if they decide to get pregnant.

 

[]RiSeN[]

Why? It's their body...no business of mine if they decide to get pregnant.

No, its my sperm, its my choice. Use without my concent would be abuse.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

No, its my sperm, its my choice. Use without my concent would be abuse.

You leave it inside them, it ceases to be yours.

 

[levi501]

And with that line of reasoning we should be able to sue the women who get pregnant without our consent.

No, its my sperm, its my choice. Use without my concent would be abuse.

absurd logic...
It's like giving someone a bite of your lunch and then suing them because they didn't receive your consent before nourishing their body with it.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I wish I had saved an article I came across earlier in the year, about a woman who was kidnapped, raped over a period of 24 hours, and then released. They caught her rapist and he confessed, so he went to jail for a couple years. When he got out, the first thing he did was sue for joint custody of the child that was produced from the rape. Not only did he get partial custody, but now the woman has to hand off her kid to a person who kidnapped, tortured, and raped her.

Yeah well that is the dumb judges fault not the child who I guess "should" be dead instead?

 

[U R my Sonshine]

No, its my sperm, its my choice. Use without my concent would be abuse.

That is exactly right. What woman has a right to "choose" abort YOUR child? Did she accept the donation?? Then she should accept what it built. I wish dads could "sue" when a woman chooses to kill his child. She "chose" when she had sex. I think it is time Dads start standing up to protect their "genetic material"

 

[WhatIsTruth]

Don't like your gender that much? Angry much of the time??

Yet another "pro-life" person who has no regard for the mother at all. The father has a say, but guess what? The father isn't the one who is going to have to do the carrying of the child and pushing it out. And in these days, a lot of the time the father doesn't even stick around....so when a "father" ( I like to call these men sperm donors) does that, then they reliquish any right to open their mouths about it.

 

[Spinrad]

That is exactly right. What woman has a right to "choose" abort YOUR child? Did she accept the donation?? Then she should accept what it built. I wish dads could "sue" when a woman chooses to kill his child. She "chose" when she had sex. I think it is time Dads start standing up to protect their "genetic material"

I would be willing to look into this. Right after we get all the dads to accept financial and social responsibility for their genetic material.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I would be willing to look into this. Right after we get all the dads to accept financial and social responsibility for their genetic material.

That would be ideal, wouldn't it?

 

[Spinrad]

That's my point. I don't like abortion. But it's pretty far down on a the list of things I feel a government could be doing something positive about. I would like to see some of the more pressing issues dealt with. Then maybe I will feel better about the gov. and be more willing to look at their interference in medical matters. Right now I don't trust them to do much of anything positively.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

Don't like your gender that much? Angry much of the time??

Yet another "pro-life" person who has no regard for the mother at all. The father has a say, but guess what? The father isn't the one who is going to have to do the carrying of the child and pushing it out. And in these days, a lot of the time the father doesn't even stick around....so when a "father" ( I like to call these men sperm donors) does that, then they reliquish any right to open their mouths about it.

I love my gender and my ability to bear children. I have also been responsible enough to pick a decent man (read HUSBAND) who wouldn't run out. Many women pick losers to make babies with and should have known better. But many pick decent fathers that would like to have theri children born.

She had no problem getting something to squeeze in...why stress about it squeezing out?...

I thnk I knew from age 9 where babies come from.

I am actually a very jovial person thanks for the concern, though.

 

[]RiSeN[]

You leave it inside them, it ceases to be yours.

I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

 

[In A Perfect World]

I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

That's a lame excuse. You should have signed a contract beforehand in which the terms were explicitly layed out.

Occam's razor

 

[]RiSeN[]

absurd logic...
It's like giving someone a bite of your lunch and then suing them because they didn't receive your consent before nourishing their body with it.

I know its absurd. But its the logic behind "Its my body, its my choice", only applied to the male agenda.

 

[In A Perfect World]

I know its absurd. But its the logic behind "Its my body, its my choice", only applied to the male agenda.

Women don't choose to get raped. You choose to have sex. That's the difference. You know the outcome of unprotected sex. Trying to use that as an excuse is well, no excuse. Don't sleep with people you can't trust - simple as that.