ABORTION POLL 4 - LAST ONE... I Promise

[praying]

Agreed... I doubt that this is how you intended it Newlamb, but it does sort of read that way. Can you clarify it at all?

Peace.

JD

Words are a very powerful thing, I don't think people realize how the written word when used as it is here as if we are "speaking" can be a double edged sword without the benefit of seeing someone's body laguage or hearing their inflections, or seeing their eyes. The real meaning can often be misconstrued.

I often reread my posts just ot make it is the message I really want to get across.

But do clarify Newlamb because it sure sounded like eugenics.

 

[sioleabha]

Personally I feel that only the only legitimate reason is to save the life of the mother. (And I do not mean ectopic pregnancies. That baby is already, in essence, gone.) Even then, if it was me, I would have serious issues over it. On the one hand I would die inside over killing my child. On the other hand, how could I leave the four I have without a mother? I honestly don't know what I would do.

If I were raped I would definitely keep the baby. A constant reminder of the beauty that God can bring from even the most heinous sin.

__________________
'reality' is the only word in the english language that should always be used in quotes.
-- anonymous

 

[Jonathan David]

Words are a very powerful thing, I don't think people realize how the written word when used as it is here as if we are "speaking" can be a double edged sword without the benefit of seeing someone's body laguage or hearing their inflections, or seeing their eyes. The real meaning can often be misconstrued.

I often reread my posts just ot make it is the message I really want to get across.

But do clarify Newlamb because it sure sounded like eugenics.

Again... agreed... on all counts.

I'm just seeing you everywhere tonight Mhatten . Nice to see you... it always is.

Peace.

JD

 

[praying]

The abortion is always wrong camp is relativley small.

 

[praying]

Again... agreed... on all counts.

I'm just seeing you everywhere tonight Mhatten . Nice to see you... it always is.

Peace.

JD

Thanks JD right back at ya

PS. I often reread my posts because I can't type for a hill of beans either so that can REALLY screw my meaning as in make incoherent

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Everyone is completly taking everything I say out of context...

NEVER EVER did I say anything about rape being Gods will, but God does allow things happen for a reason. Does he cause them? No, but he does LET things happen.

Example... anyone remember job??? yeah... thought so.

God is a loving God and a just God.

You all can come with an x amount of reasons to anort an innocent baby. Not a single reason is legit.

 

[Spike~]

Everyone is completly taking everything I say out of context...

NEVER EVER did I say anything about rape being Gods will, but God does allow things happen for a reason. Does he cause them? No, but he does LET things happen.

Example... anyone remember job??? yeah... thought so.

God is a loving God and a just God.

You all can come with an x amount of reasons to anort an innocent baby. Not a single reason is legit.

You said God lets things happen for a reason, hence, it is God's will for those things to happen. Duh.

Depends on what version of God you worship.

Oh ya, aborting to save the mother's life is never legit.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

well it's murder if you do abort the baby. Take your chances witht eh docoto or take chances with God... hmmm..............

 

[Spike~]

And it's also murder if you hold a gun to a woman's head, and tell her to push, knowing full well that she might die giving birth.

 

[Jonathan David]

The abortion is always wrong camp is relativley small.

Interesting eh? We sometimes talk as though there are only two positions that someone could take. I'm glad that you and Jayem made those suggestions. This poll seems to show a more complex picture than simply "pro-choice" vs. "pro-life".

Peace.

JD

 

[Tracie]

You guys are taking xtxArchxAngelxtx's comments out of context. Actually, you are completely rewording them. God does allow bad things to happen. God does NOT make them happen...that's Satan.

I think what he is trying to say is what Romans 8:28 says: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." God can take the most horrible thing and create something beautiful out of it....if you love and trust in Him.

Tracie

 

[jayem]

You guys are taking xtxArchxAngelxtx's comments out of context. Actually, you are completely rewording them. God does allow bad things to happen. God does NOT make them happen...that's Satan.

I think what he is trying to say is what Romans 8:28 says: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." God can take the most horrible thing and create something beautiful out of it....if you love and trust in Him.

Tracie

This is getting off the abortion topic, but I just have to make a comment. If you believe that God is sovereign, then He is ultimately responsible when bad things happen. Even if another entity is the direct cause. For example, suppose I have foreknowledge that someone is going to bomb a building, and also suppose that I have the power to stop that person. Yet, I do nothing. By anyone's concept of justice, am I not also culpable? You may believe that evil results from human wickedness, or Satanic influence, but if an omiscient and omnipotent God allows it, then He also bears responsibility. The common answer is that God is also perfectly just, and he allows evil as part of his ultimate plan, but, when you think about it, this argument doesn't deny God's responsibility for evil, it just tries to mitigate it. But this is really another thread.

 

[Mac6yver]

well it's murder if you do abort the baby. Take your chances witht eh docoto or take chances with God... hmmm..............

Do you really believe that your scare tactics will be successful in swaying more people to your side of the debate?

 

[Tracie]

Jayem - This is getting off topic. Sorry. I totally understand what you are saying, but when God created man He wanted for man to live in a wonderful paradise. Everything was perfect until man sinned. Man brought it upon himself. Yes, through temptation from Satan, but that's where the whole free-will thing comes in. Man used free-will to sin. Once man sinned, that paradise was over. And if you read the Old Testament, yes, God is wrathful...He destroyed entire cities...even the whole world one time. But, I think His mercy shows as well because Israel screwed up over and over and over and He gave them another chance time and time again. Every time. One time He wanted to destroy them, but Moses pleaded for their lives. He gave them the ultimate chance at redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus!

You can look at one situation and (knowing God allowed it happen) think He is horrible and mean, but if you look at the fact that evil is in this world because of the sins of man, you realize exactly how much grace God actually extends. We're lucky we aren't getting in this life what we actually deserve. Then people would really be upset. Yes, many people will ultimately get what they deserve...an eternity void of the presence of God (way worse than anything you'll experience here on earth...and please don't think I'm saying a person doesn't have the right to be hurt about the things that happen to them here. They do.). But, I for one, and all those who put their trust in Jesus Christ are being given what NONE of us even remotely deserve...eternity with God!

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that blame has to go first to mankind's sinful nature...that's what led to a crappy world. That sinful nature in turn allows Satan to have his way. So blame mankind...blame Satan...but thank God every moment for any good that is in this world and thank Him for the grace He has for you!

Tracie

 

[praying]

You guys are taking xtxArchxAngelxtx's comments out of context. Actually, you are completely rewording them. God does allow bad things to happen. God does NOT make them happen...that's Satan.

I think what he is trying to say is what Romans 8:28 says: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." God can take the most horrible thing and create something beautiful out of it....if you love and trust in Him.

Tracie

He needed to find a less explosive way of expressing himself, it clearly came off as callous and cold hearted. Now he may not have meant it that way but that is how it was expressed IMHO.

 

[Tracie]

mhatten - The wording was a little rough, but I don't think anyone really misunderstood him to the extent they expressed. He may have come across harsh, but people were completely changing his wording.

Tracie

 

[Aduro Amnis]

If you were raped, god let it happen for a reason.

If you can possibly die, then go ahead and have the baby, at least let it live cause you don't know for sure if you will die or not, thats up to God and if you do die, trip to heaven, hopefully.

I don't see what the issue is. Murder is sin, and abortion ius murder no matter how far along it is.

Your mixing religion with politics, which is never a good idea.
Plus you can't prove "Abortion is Murder" if the baby is going to die at birth or soon after. Or if a mother has the high chance of dieing, is it right for the baby to live if the mother could reproduce 20 other children? Then you would have murdered The Mother and 20 children.

Rape is not an act of God but of sin(whoosh religion and politics, I'm such a hypocrite ).

 

[Tracie]

And how can you prove the baby is going to die at birth or soon after? Doctors (no matter what anyone thinks) can not see into the future. Was it on this thread I talked about the people I know who were told their baby would die at birth because it didn't have a brain? And now they have a healthy, happy child. Or the lady I know who was told her baby was already dead and now she has a wonderful 18 year old daughter? So, you're saying doctors are without mistake and can tell you exactly what will happen in the future and you should base your actions on that? I wonder how many perfectly healthy, normal babies are killed because the parents were told there was something wrong?

Tracie

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Your mixing religion with politics, which is never a good idea.
Plus you can't prove "Abortion is Murder" if the baby is going to die at birth or soon after. Or if a mother has the high chance of dieing, is it right for the baby to live if the mother could reproduce 20 other children? Then you would have murdered The Mother and 20 children.

Rape is not an act of God but of sin(whoosh religion and politics, I'm such a hypocrite ).

It's not murder to let the baby live if in case the mother will die. Thats called sacrifice. Thats like saying it is commiting murder for someone to jump in front of a bullet for someone. It's not murder.

And abortion is murder. You are thinking that I am looking at thing politcally? I think you ahve it backwards. It is VERY political to ASSUME the POSSIBILTY the baby MIGHT die and go ahead and kill the baby. Where as you have no clue whether the baby will live or not.

"Or if a mother has the high chance of dieing, is it right for the baby to live if the mother could reproduce 20 other children? Then you would have murdered The Mother and 20 children."

Once again, you are ASSUMING the mother will have an X amount of children. Your statement is void. It is the will of God to not commite murder. Abortion is still murder no matter how you look at it. You are saying that you will kill someone hoping it will be a sacrifice and not just a murder... sorry, doesn't work that way.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

He needed to find a less explosive way of expressing himself, it clearly came off as callous and cold hearted. Now he may not have meant it that way but that is how it was expressed IMHO.

I am sorry if I came off cold hearted, but I must admit, I am a cold herted person. Truth hurts, I was just stating it bluntly. Neverthless, my point still remains the same, and still remains true.

Thank you for your help and understand tracie and newlamb.