Abortion display in Boise...

[coastie]

You might be waiting for a while

 

[amie]

Originally posted by coastie

I'm sad that someone with such an absense of value for human life will someday be an officer. Do you have any kids. Maybe you should, you'd probably understand better what we are talking about.

yes brt28006...I agree with coastie on this point. It is clearly evident according to your posts, how you view this atrocity...

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by brt28006


So you are, essentially, saying that the average woman is more capable of performing a potentially life threatening operation than a doctor is?

You said it, not me.

[ sarcasm ] Hooray for blind idealism!111 [ /sarcasm ]

Sacrasm is merely a refuge for people who cannot defend their position effectively.

 

[amie]

Originally posted by coastie
You might be waiting for a while

LOL coastie...this is true!

 

[amie]

Originally posted by brt28006


So you are, essentially, saying that the average woman is more capable of performing a potentially life threatening operation than a doctor is?

she said nothing of the such...brt28006 I for one would like you to stop feeding back statements that we are not using...Quote us, thats fine, but tell us something we are saying when we are not, thats not gonna fly here. we are saying what we are saying, the problem is you are hearing what you want to hear, at least thats how it looks to me...

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by brt28006

So you are, essentially, saying that the average woman is more capable of performing a potentially life threatening operation than a doctor is?

Look at what you just said.

You are willing to admit that abortion is a potentially life-threatening medical procedure. You mean that it is threatening to the woman, of course.

But it is always a fatal operation for the other human that undergoes the procedure. The baby.

Why do you care more about the mother than the baby?

What makes one human more valuable to you than another?

Isn't that a sign of bigotry, to value one human over another, one class of humans over another?

How long have you been a bigot?

 

[Catchup]

I totally agree.

Lamb? No, You are a Lion!

LOVE

 

[coastie]

Lamb? No, You are a Lion!

Yes, Yes you are, many very valuable points in that statement.

Let's see those rebutted!

God Bless

 

[ZiSunka]

I think we ought to start fighting abortion as a bigotry issue.

People will not tolerate bigotry, and we might be able to chang the laws that way.

 

[coastie]

People hate finger pointing unless it's at Conservatives or Christians. Go figure we are the one's who would be considered evil in this world. A sign of the times.

 

[amie]

Originally posted by brt28006

That article in the first post on this thread cited the gory nature of abortions as ethical grounds for them to be banned... well, brain surgery, and pretty much any major surgery, is quite gory as well... does that mean it should be banned?

Hi brt28006,
I am trying here...have you ever seen a brain surgery? gory is all irrelevant, our perceptions become our reality. to what is gory to you, will not necessarily be to me...but abortion is killing. do you think that it is not? I am trying to understand how you are perceiving this, but I don't understand how any parent could willingly sacrifice their baby, as you stated hypothetically you would. Ultimately it would not be your decision anyway, but that of your wife's...
Amie

 

[coastie]

Sadly, this was a frequent practice (dark alley abortions) from the time before Roe vs. Wade. It's hardly ludicrous, and plenty of material can be found to support my statement of its occurence.

And you think that by eliminating legal abortions wuld save more lives than if we let it continue. Sadly, you are mistaken. Abortions are often usd as a form of birth control. Young woman are less afraid of having unprotected pre-marital sex because they can have a free confidential abortion. Fewer women would see abortion as an option, therefore, they would be more careful and more responsible.

Bottom line, making abortion illegal would still save lives.

Going back to our hypothetical situation, we have a choice between two separate atrocities.
1) aborting every baby born in America for the next year, and eradicating disease
2) not doing so, and thus allowing disease to continue

If I had to choose one, I'd pick the first, even if I had a wife who was pregnant. Some things are bigger than any one man or woman.

That is absolutely disgusting. And tell me how aborting every baby for the next year would stop disease. Did you even stop to think about that, or are you just typing as you go along. Disease is transmitted many other ways than from mother to child.

So is the Bible for creation scientists and antedeluvian geologists... but that is for another thread.

The bible is not a end-all argument source, nor is it used as one by respected scientists. Though their findings back up what the bible says, that is very different than using the Bible as a scientific source.

By the way, why didn't you comment on the quote about legalized abortions in Ohio?

Well, maybe so. But who is it who figures pretty much everything else in the entire world to be evil?
Oh yeah, Christian fundamentalists.

Really? Everything else, brt? Everything else other than what? That's not called bigotry, that's called moral conviction. You are the one who is being judgemental here. Judgemental of Christians.

Why do you care more about the baby than the mother? How long have YOU been a bigot, by your own reasoning?

Nobody feels that the mother is any less valuable than the child. If we stop abortion does the mother die?
There is a big difference in having a difficult life and being dead.

 

[solo66 man]

Originally posted by coastie
People hate finger pointing unless it's at Conservatives or Christians. Go figure we are the one's who would be considered evil in this world. A sign of the times.

Sad but true. In the end even the so-called conservatives
will want to eat us for lunch.
It is already starting.

 

[solo66 man]

Wow, your lack of coherence of the facts really astounds me.
Your thinking and logic is really shallow.
Think about it. Your excuses for legalizing abortion is that women die from illegal abortions. That is like saying,
"Gee, muderers are putting themselves at risk, so, to save their lives, we must legalize murder. I mean, look at all the lives we will save. We will have population control,
most people who are killed are people no one wants, and in the long run we will be saving lives because fewer muderers
will die and the dead people dont spread disease, nor do they eat anyone elses food. So, the starving will have more to eat." But then your lack of sensitivity is not too surprising since you find so little gorey. You would probably do well in some situations I will not meantion, because I dont want to be accused of flaming, although the truth is evident.

Originally posted by brt28006

Hardly... I think you misunderstood what I had written, as in fact I believe quite the opposite. I think eliminating legal abortion would save fewer lives than if we let it continue legally.
After all, we still have dark alley self-abortions and foreign abortion clinics to consider. Nobody in America lives more than a few days drive or ferry from either Canada, the Bahamas, Jamaica, or Mexico...

If we go back to my first post about the hypothetical situation, you will see that the fetuses were needed for their stem cells and tissue.
Again, all hypothetical and in all likelihood nothing like this would ever happen.

That is just fine, ma'am, as no creation scientist is a respected scientist.

I should like to examine those malpractice claims. Once having determined which of them are completely frivolous, I could then comment on the issue.
Besides, why on earth would the fact that abortion is legal have anything to do with this? If anything, malpractice would increase if abortion became illegal... but reports of malpractice would drop, as the mother would be liable for the criminal charge of, perhaps, murder of an unborn child.

I have read over and over on these forums people saying such things as "if it is not of God it is of the Devil"... I take that to mean everything not Christian oriented is of the Devil.
Problems with this? Take it up with the other forum members.

When does moral conviction become bigotry? I don't think we'll ever be able to determine that... the Ku Klux Klan is pretty much universally considered to be a bigoted group... but they believe it is their moral conviction to Christianity and the "White Race" to hold people of other races and religions down.

Here's a question.
How would you go about making abortion illegal?
What punishments would there be?
etc.?


You'd be a bit suprised to know what I find gory, because it isn't much.
I don't dare post examples on this forum, but sites like Rotten Dotcom and the StileProject don't even come close.

As for the decision being my hypothetical wife's, all I can say is thank you for affirming the pro-choice view of abortion being the woman's inherent decision.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by brt28006


Wow, how fine of you to talk about bigotry, seeing as how you PM'd me to reprimand my posting in a Christian-only forum.
Or, the Druid grove that I'm a part of certainly feels the sharp point of bigotry, especially from Christians who have no idea whatsoever as to our beliefs. They just write us off as Satanic and protest everything we do. That is irrelevant to this argument though, and was really more of a vent.

You are so very off topic. I assume it's because you don't have a defense, so you're trying to subvert the questions.

Going back to our hypothetical situation, we have a choice between two separate atrocities.
1) aborting every baby born in America for the next year, and eradicating disease
2) not doing so, and thus allowing disease to continue

If I had to choose one, I'd pick the first, even if I had a wife who was pregnant. Some things are bigger than any one man or woman.

And what if cotton candy fell out of the sky?

Neither one is going to happen, so your question is merely hysteria meant to subvert the thread.

Well, maybe so. But who is it who figures pretty much everything else in the entire world to be evil?
Oh yeah, Christian fundamentalists.

You're bigotry is showing again!

We owe it to those children to develope medical treatments for the ones who would be aborted because of some illness.
We owe it to those children to provide something better than the horrid adoption system we have in this country for those who will be put up for adoption (allowing legal gay adoption is a good start.)

You're misinformed. Fewer than 1% of babies aborted each year have some defect. 99% are elective abortions for the purpose of birth control.

We owe it to those children to help mothers plan parenthood better, so they don't feel pressured into getting an abortion out of fear they won't be good moms.
We owe it to those children to teach young children about sex in a better fashion than the second-rate sex-ed courses schools have nowadays.
We owe a lot to those children, but most importantly, I believe we owe them a decent chance at having a decent life.
Sometimes, that is impossible.

Abuse and abortion have no correlation. Abuse reports have gone up 800% since Roe-v-Wade. If abortion prevented child abuse, how could this be true?

You are spouting old rhetoric that someone else told you. You are not thinking for yourself.

 

[coastie]

BRT... I'll comment on the rest of your post when I have a chance.

But I had to bring one thing up that I just can't let go for now.

It's Sir! (not ma'am)

(ok I've cooled down)

I'll be back later to rebutt your last post... talk to you later.

God Bless

 

[tericl2]

[GLOW=limegreen]Only 50% of the patients that enter an abortion clinic come out alive. [/GLOW]

 

[coastie]

It's not a lowpoint of intelligence, it was a mistake made because you were in a hurry. Anyway, no harm done, I'm just sensitive about that

I'm done debating because this thread is slowing down.

My argument is simple.

Abortion is an act of murder. There is no excuse for murder. Whether it be the unjust killing of a gang member or the killing of an unborn baby, it is still wrong.

I'm not going to look up statistics, or quote horror stories from any web sites or leaflets. I'm just asking one question to a future officer of my military.

Is murder wrong?

If your answer is yes, then you too oppose abortion whether you know it yet or not.

 

[brt28006]

I too, have finished debating on this topic, so I'll just say this last part in reply to your post and be done.

Of course murder is wrong, but the act of killing, in and of itself, is sometimes justified. I believe the same thing holds true to abortion.

 

[Crusader Abrahm]

i am amazed that you who are proabortion do not mention and steer clear around the facts of so many children being killed right here in America. all you do is make excuses for thinking abortion is ok.
you will be just as answerable as hitler is.

Originally posted by solo66 man
In all the wars the USA has been in, deaths counted on both sides has amounted to 2.3 million soldiers killed.
Just since 1973 until the beginning of 2001 43 million abortions have been performed.
Here some cut and paste info.
According to Planned parenthood:
Half of all pregnancies in the U.S. each year are
unintended, and about half of these are terminated by
medically safe, legal abortions (Henshaw, 1998a). In 1996,
1.37 million abortions took place, down from an estimated
1.61 million in 1990. From 1973 through 1996, more than
34 million legal abortions occurred (Henshaw, 1998b).
Any babies getting killed lately? And we are worrying about offending someone? What about the rights of the unborn? Do you not think it a little offensive to be killing them?