Abortion Discussion

[AirPo]

Nor is "the unborn are nothing but parasitic tumors" which is a lie the pro-choice crowd loves

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal?

 

[OrthodoxForever]

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal?

Here's another. Abortion is only "not murder" because for some reason enough people fail to understand that the unborn are human lives.

 

[OrthodoxForever]

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal?

If a child was born at 28 weeks, was viable and would likely go on to a normal life, are you honestly going to tell me that just before it was born it should have been legal to kill it? Developmentally there is no difference, the only difference is the location

 

[AirPo]

Here's another. Abortion is only "not murder" because for some reason enough people fail to understand that the unborn are human lives.

That one is not any better.

 

[AirPo]

If a child was born at 28 weeks, was viable and would likely go on to a normal life, are you honestly going to tell me that just before it was born it should have been legal to kill it? Developmentally there is no difference, the only difference is the location

You do realize there are limits.

 

[jayem]

If we incentivize adoption we'll only end up intensifying one of foster-care's biggest problems, too many so-called care-givers who are only in it for the money...

Prolonged foster care may be an issue for older children, but infants are highly adoptable. Check the link. Which is from a pro-life organization. According to data from 2002-2010, 36 couples are on waiting lists for every one baby adopted. If there has been such a surplus of newborns, why did so many American couples go to Asia, or eastern Europe? (In recent years, some of these countries have restricted international adoptions, which only increases the demand for domestic babies.)

And anyway, isn't your goal to reduce abortions? Would you rather have these infants terminated? Cash incentives for infant adoption is a win for babies, for adoptive parents, and for birth mothers.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/07/09/thirty-six-couples-wait-for-every-one-baby-who-is-adopted/

 

[Julie.S]

Nor is "the unborn are nothing but parasitic tumors" which is a lie the pro-choice crowd loves

Well the tumor part is a lie as that's not what one is.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Contraceptives will still occasionally fail and may not be immediately noticed, rape unfortunately still exists, and medical complications can still happen and endanger the mother's life.

Yes, rape has always existed and will continue to exist. Does this mean that this justifies executing the innocent baby for the crime of the guilty--the rapist? Society lets the rapist live, and legalizes the murder of the innocent. What kind of justice is this?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

1. Abortion is murder.

2. We do not live in that ideal world.

3. Until the points outlined above in #2 are accomplished criminalizing abortion would solve very little and create more problems than it gets rid of.

I am having a hard time following your reasoning! You are saying that abortion is murder, but because we are living in a less than ideal world, murder should be legal.

Can we apply said reasoning to other criminal acts that do not necessarily result in death: rape, theft, and sexual abuse of children. Should these crimes be also legal because we do not live in an ideal world?

 

[Julie.S]

Yes, rape has always existed and will continue to exist. Does this mean that this justifies executing the innocent baby for the crime of the guilty--the rapist? Society lets the rapist live, and legalizes the murder of the innocent. What kind of justice is this?

Do you in this case believe the rapist should die instead? I think rape is horible and there is no excuse for it ever. It's one of the worst crimes there is.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Yes, rape has always existed and will continue to exist. Does this mean that this justifies executing the innocent baby for the crime of the guilty--the rapist? Society lets the rapist live, and legalizes the murder of the innocent. What kind of justice is this?

My answer depends on my own thoughts and beliefs. If I were to put myself in the place of someone who was raped and became pregnant, I would personally not want to carry the child. Here are some reasons why:

I do not want to carry the child of a rapist, a criminal who violated my body against my will.
I can be forced to share custody of the child with the rapist, meaning I would have to continue close contact with the criminal who violated my body against my will.
It is my body that was violated, and any attempt to force me to carry a baby that I never wanted and was forced to conceive is a further violation.
Pregnancy could kill me, the child, or both because of my medication requirements and health problems. This makes it even worse in the case that I never even wanted the baby and conceived it by force against my will.

Because of this, I will always support a woman's right to abort after rape. I support it no matter what, but this is why I feel the way I do about it after rape.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

1. Abortion is not murder. Murder is a legal term and abortion does not fit the definition.

Murder is also a religious term:

“You shall not murder." [Exodus 20:13]

 

[Nic Samojluk]

3. Yes, criminalizing abortion would not stop abortion. We would see a return to unsafe back alley abortions.

Yes! Did the legalization of abortion reduce the number of abortions? In 1975 there were 700,000 reported abortions. By 1983, the number more than doubled: 1,500,000.

Suppose we legalize rape. Will this solve the problem? How about burglary, theft, and the sexual abuse of children? Does making crime legal solve the problem?

 

[KitKatMatt]

Yes! Did the legalization of abortion reduce the number of abortions? In 1975 there were 700,000 reported abortions. By 1983, the number more than doubled: 1,500,000.

Suppose we legalize rape. Will this solve the problem? How about burglary, theft, and the sexual abuse of children? Does making crime legal solve the problem?

There have been reasonable suggestions posted on this thread that can and do impact the abortion rate.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I could never tell a girl or woman what to do with HER body, I think if a girl chose to have an abortion she has the ultimate right not me even if for example I helped her get the baby, it's still not my ultimate choice it's hers, it is her body.

Really? Is this what the Bible teaches? My Bible says otherwise:

New International Version
"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; ..." [1 Corinthians 6:19]

If the girl does not even own her body, how can she own the body of her unborn baby?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

My thoughts are that if I knew of a little girl that had been raped and she was too young to have a child and could die like if she was 8 or something...... Then I think abortion is a good idea.

Read the following recent case of a ten years old girl who was raped and gave birth to the baby:

"ASUNCION, Paraguay, November 23, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) – Paraguay president Horacio Cartes is firmly standing against decriminalization of abortion amid an international campaign to legalize it throughout the country.


The international pressure comes after the now world-famous case of a 10-year-old girl who became pregnant after being raped and was denied an abortion. The girl recently gave birth to a healthy baby girl.

Ref.: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...ail&utm_term=0_0caba610ac-ec77db0338-39758210

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I think if the life of the mother or child is at risk things need to be done until nothing more can be and then a decision can be made.

If the choice is between loosing the life the woman and the life of the baby, then saving one life instead of loosing two is still pro-life.

 

[PapaZoom]

There have been reasonable suggestions posted on this thread that can and do impact the abortion rate.

If abortion isn't immoral, why bother with the abortion rate? We don't care about the tooth extraction rate. Why does the abortion rate matter? What difference does it make?

 

[Julie.S]

If the choice is between loosing the life the woman and the life of the baby, then saving one life instead of loosing two is still pro-life.

I understand that and I would rather save both if possible.

 

[OrthodoxForever]

Prolonged foster care may be an issue for older children, but infants are highly adoptable. Check the link. Which is from a pro-life organization. According to data from 2002-2010, 36 couples are on waiting lists for every one baby adopted. If there has been such a surplus of newborns, why did so many American couples go to Asia, or eastern Europe? (In recent years, some of these countries have restricted international adoptions, which only increases the demand for domestic babies.)

And anyway, isn't your goal to reduce abortions? Would you rather have these infants terminated? Cash incentives for infant adoption is a win for babies, for adoptive parents, and for birth mothers.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/07/09/thirty-six-couples-wait-for-every-one-baby-who-is-adopted/

My goal is to reduce abortions, but not by placing kids willy nilly into families who only want the cash. The reason that couples go abroad is because we put too many hoops in their way and in the wrong places. My own parents were denied because my mom was on the part time payroll despite the fact that she worked the same hours and was paid the same as a full time person doing her job.