Abortion Bans are Really Working Great

[dogs4thewin]

The laws in question are secular.

Yes, but the question ( or issue) really was that they are not being very effective which I believe to be true in which case it should be less restrictive because this is one of those cases really that enforcement could lead to death than allwing it as an option.

 

[FireDragon76]

If an adult can't live without his insulin then its not murder if I prevent him from ever using it again.

That's a different circumstance since there are issues of bodily autonomy at stake.

 

[dogs4thewin]

And sometimes helping people even though you don't think they deserve it is the right thing to do.

There is helping and there is enabling there is a difference

 

[Hammster]

Even in rape.......

Let’s make a concession (which you’ll never agree to). How about outlawing all abortions except for rape and incest, and if the mother’s life is at risk.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's a different circumstance since there are issues of bodily autonomy at stake.

That and at least legally it would be hard to prove that the suspect prevented them from using it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Let’s make a concession (which you’ll never agree to). How about outlawing all abortions except for rape and incest, and if the mother’s life is at risk.

A mother's life is at risk if she chooses to have an unsafe abortion, as well.

 

[FireDragon76]

So your solution is to kill them early so they won’t be put in a rare situation later that might be harmful. Got it.

Nope. I could only see justifying restricting abortion when the fetus is viable and there aren't risks to the mother's mental and physical health, and to seek ways to create a more just society where all people are cared for. That is a genuinely pro-life ethic.

A few weeks ago I watched a documentary called Tashi and the Monk, about the Ven. Lobsong Phuntek, a Tibetan monk who runs an orphanage in northern India. He himself was abandoned in trash by his mother when he was born, and taken into a monastery. Of course he himself found a great deal of healing in caring for others, being the father for others he never had. But that is something he has chosen to do, nobody compelled him.

In reality, the problems of unwanted pregnancies is not something that can be handled only by law, but it must also involve provisions to actually help people, not punish them. All American evangelicals do is have a punitive mentality towards women, I don't see them doing the hard work of actual raising orphans. Watch the movie Cider House Rules or Tashi and the Monk, and maybe you will understand that sometimes doing "the right thing" is not easy at all. Forcing that "cross" on others is not right, it violates peoples freedom.

 

[Hammster]

Nope. I could only see justifying restricting abortion when the fetus is viable and there aren't risks to the mother's mental and physical health, and to seek ways to create a more just society where all people are cared for. That is a genuinely pro-life ethic.

A few weeks ago I watched a documentary called Tashi and the Monk, about the Ven. Lobsong Phuntek, a Tibetan monk who runs an orphanage in northern India. He himself was abandoned in trash by his mother when he was born, and taken into a monastery. Of course he himself found a great deal of healing in caring for others, being the father for others he never had. But that is something he has chosen to do, nobody compelled him.

In reality, the problems of unwanted pregnancies is not something that can be handled only by law, but it must also involve provisions to actually help people, not punish them. All American evangelicals do is have a punitive mentality towards women, I don't see them doing the hard work of actual raising orphans.

I’m in favor of holding the doctors accountable.

And maybe if we’d stop killing babies, there would be babies to adopt.

 

[FireDragon76]

I’m in favor of holding the doctors accountable.

And maybe if we’d stop killing babies, there would be babies to adopt.

I'm in favor of the government staying out of it unless there is some compelling reason to interfere in what objectively is a medical procedure.

By all means, seek to persuade women to put up kids for adoption . But you have no right to try to force women to do so. It's their body, their choice.

 

[Hammster]

I'm in favor of the government staying out of it unless there is some compelling reason to interfere in what objectively is a medical procedure.

By all means, seek to persuade women to put up kids for adoption . But you have no right to try to force women to do so. It's their body, their choice.

It’s a baby. It’s murder.

 

[cow451]

How about we make performing abortions illegal? Then it’s not the woman who is the criminal.

Then, if there’s government assistance needed (if the woman decides to raise her child), we can treat food stamps like WIC, and have a list of foods that are acceptable. And with mandatory drug testing.

That’s a good start. Much better than killing a person in the womb, don’t you think?

Then we have to get these lazy people off Medicaid, WIC, SNAP, SSI, TNAF, Section 8,etc. Put them in those tents and camps we’re wasting on illegals. So a few million die. They should’ve thought of that before being born.

 

[zephcom]

Let’s make a concession (which you’ll never agree to). How about outlawing all abortions except for rape and incest, and if the mother’s life is at risk.

It isn't about concessions. It is about dealing with abortion in a logical and productive manner. It is about righting the wrongs which put women in a position which requires them to consider abortion.

It is about dealing with an issue which no one is ever going to completely agree on with compassion and dignity. A woman in America simply does not earn the same money for the same work yet they are the ones chosen to raise the children. Let's fix that.

A woman in America is considered 'damaged goods' if she chooses to have a child out of wedlock. Let's fix that.

A woman raising a child as a single parent can't just put the baby in the fridge until she comes home from work. Let's fix that.

I'm not a fan of abortion. But I accept that abortions will happen and no amount of punishment is going to stop it. Women have resorted to abortions since the time of hunter/gathering to resolve the issue of a pregnancy that isn't appropriate for what is going on at the time of the pregnancy.

-MY- point is that if we can remove some of the barriers that keep women from carrying to term, fewer women will have abortions. And we can do that without passing any laws or making anyone a criminal.

The point of the OP is that state legislatures around this nation have completely hoodwinked those people who think their job is done because the state 'outlawed' abortion. All they did is drive abortion to the Internet. NOTHING has changed just like nothing changed when we banned alcohol.

Except that now organized crime has one more product they can sell on the street...abortion drugs.

 

[cow451]

Let’s make a concession (which you’ll never agree to). How about outlawing all abortions except for rape and incest, and if the mother’s life is at risk.

Liberal! Father have rights, too!

 

[Hammster]

Then we have to get these lazy people off Medicaid, WIC, SNAP, SSI, TNAF, Section 8,etc. Put them in those tents and camps we’re wasting on illegals. So a few million die. They should’ve thought of that before being born.

Huh?

 

[cow451]

I’m in favor of holding the doctors accountable.

And maybe if we’d stop killing babies, there would be babies to adopt.

There aren’t enough people to care for the children already in foster care.

 

[Hammster]

Liberal! Father have rights, too!

Huh?

 

[Hammster]

There aren’t enough people to care for the children already in foster care.

Where are those kids, then?

 

[cow451]

Huh?

We’ll want to address the post-birth person as well. We don’t want them dragging us down with welfare. We made sure they got born. Job continues.

 

[cow451]

Where are those kids, then?

Some are housed in hotels temporarily until they can be placed in Georgia. Or group homes.

Add a few thousand more, no problem.

 

[Hammster]

We’ll want to address the post-birth person as well. We don’t want them dragging us down with welfare. We made sure they got born. Job continues.

Mkay.