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solid_core

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The abomination of desolation (or the abomination that makes desolate) is Christians worshiping the antichrist.

The "holy place" Jesus referred to is His saints on earth---that same "outer court" of God's heavenly temple mentioned in the Revelation which is going to be given over by God to the sons of the devil to trample (through persecution and martyrdom) for 3 1/2 years (the time of great tribulation).

Christians are the only people who have Someone in them to leave them. The unsaved are already empty and alone. They cannot be made desolate as they don't have the Spirit of Jesus in them.

Any Christian who chooses to take the mark of the beast and worship him will forfeit his or her eternal life. The Holy Spirit will depart from them forever and they will spend eternity in the lake of fire. ( Hence the call for the saints to persevere during that time of persecution and to not forsake the Lord to their destruction.)

The abomination of desolation standing in the holy place is the same thing that Paul described in 2nd Thessalonians: the son of perdition (the antichrist) taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
The (only) temple of God is the church, and those Christians who fall away from their faith in that time and who take the mark of the beast and worship his image will be rejecting and replacing Christ as their spiritual head and their God with him (essentially with Satan incarnate).

The rebellion of the saints is already raging. It's only a matter of time before the antichrist is revealed and many of them commit the ultimate act of rebellion by worshiping the antichrist in order to save their earthly lives. They don't love and are not faithful to Jesus now; much less will they be in the most intense of trials.
Jesus was not talking about some more than 2,000 years distant future, but about his generation, about his disciples.

Its clear from the context.
 
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TLSITD

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Jesus was not talking about some more than 2,000 years distant future, but about his generation, about his disciples.

Its clear from the context.
You are correct; but there is more than one fulfillment of that prophecy/scripture. The first has already taken place, the second not yet.
 
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BrotherD

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Makes what desolate?

The church/woman.

Revelation 17:1-2
[1]And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
[2]With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Fornicating with the kings of the earth make the woman desolate.
 
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BrotherD

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It's not a dual application. Jesus uses Antiochus as a metaphor.

The abomination that maketh desolate happened in 508 when the Papacy used king Clovis to destroy/uproot one of the three horns.
 
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Douggg

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Fornicating with the kings of the earth make the woman desolate.

Here is what makes the woman desolate. It appears as though the ten kings will burn the Vatican to the ground, once the person has become the beast.

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

___________________________________________________

The abomination of desolation is something else. It stands in a holy place. Which is in the sanctuary. And will be the statue image of the beast placed in the temple, and shortly thereafter incarnated by Satan when he is cast down to earth for the time, times, half time.
 
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Douggg

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BrotherD

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The abomination of desolation (or the abomination that makes desolate) is Christians worshiping the antichrist.

The "holy place" Jesus referred to is His saints on earth---that same "outer court" of God's heavenly temple mentioned in the Revelation which is going to be given over by God to the sons of the devil to trample (through persecution and martyrdom) for 3 1/2 years (the time of great tribulation).

Christians are the only people who have Someone in them to leave them. The unsaved are already empty and alone. They cannot be made desolate as they don't have the Spirit of Jesus in them.

Any Christian who chooses to take the mark of the beast and worship him will forfeit his or her eternal life. The Holy Spirit will depart from them forever and they will spend eternity in the lake of fire. ( Hence the call for the saints to persevere during that time of persecution and to not forsake the Lord to their destruction.)

The abomination of desolation standing in the holy place is the same thing that Paul described in 2nd Thessalonians: the son of perdition (the antichrist) taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
The (only) temple of God is the church, and those Christians who fall away from their faith in that time and who take the mark of the beast and worship his image will be rejecting and replacing Christ as their spiritual head and their God with him (essentially with Satan incarnate).

The rebellion of the saints is already raging. It's only a matter of time before the antichrist is revealed and many of them commit the ultimate act of rebellion by worshiping the antichrist in order to save their earthly lives. They don't love and are not faithful to Jesus now; much less will they be in the most intense of trials.

The reason there is alot of confusion of bible prophecy is because most people believe some of the time prophecies need to be fulfilled, but all are as of 1844. The 3 and a half year tribulation or better know as the last week in Daniel 9:24 has already passed in 34Ad with the stoning of Stephen. Those 490 years was the probation time for the Jews but they rejected mercy.
 
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BrotherD

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Here is what makes the woman desolate. It appears as though the ten kings will burn the Vatican to the ground, once the person has become the beast.

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

___________________________________________________

The abomination of desolation is something else. It stands in a holy place. Which is in the sanctuary. And will be the statue image of the beast placed in the temple, and shortly thereafter incarnated by Satan when he is cast down to earth for the time, times, half time.

The time, times and half a times has already passed. Revelation 13 shows that after that 1260 days/years have passed then the lamblike beast comes out of the earth. That beast is known as the USA.
 
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Douggg

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The time, times and half a times has already passed. Revelation 13 shows that after that 1260 days/years have passed then the lamblike beast comes out of the earth

How does Revelation 13 show that?

The false prophet i.e the second beast, and the beast are both cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's Return.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
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BrotherD

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The forty and two months ended when the Papacy was captured by Napoleon's general. Revelation is alot of repeat and expand, repeat and expand. Just like in the book of Daniel.
 
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Douggg

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The forty and two months ended when the Papacy was captured by Napoleon's general. Revelation is alot of repeat and expand, repeat and expand. Just like in the book of Daniel.
Was that person cast alive into the lake of fire by Jesus? And did Jesus's return take place back then?
 
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Davy

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The premise of the OP is completely un-Biblical according to its timelines. The "abomination of desolation" event Jesus forewarned of certainly... has NOT happened yet today.

In 165 B.C., Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem with an army, went inside the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and then setup an idol abomination to Zeus, demanding all to worship it. But that was about 200 years prior... to Jesus warning about the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel. And the 2nd temple burned down in 70 A.D. before the Romans could get control of it (per Jewish historian Josephus who lived in the year 100 A.D.)

Antiochus did not fulfill the Daniel 11 Scripture, which Historicists and Preterists like to falsely promote.

Antiochus didn't take Jerusalem using peace. And he didn't make a 7 year league in Jerusalem with the Jews. An officer of Antiochus, Apollonius, went through the country with an army and entered Jerusalem with orders to slay and destroy, and end the practice of Judaism. The Syrians took the city of David, and made it their fortress, controlling the city. Then Antiochus desecrated the temple by stealing its artifacts, and then sacrificing swine on the altar and setting up Zeus idol worship.

The Daniel 11 events by the "vile person" involves the Daniel 9:27 event of making of a covenant for "one week" (7 years), and in the middle of the week ending sacrifices and placing the idol abomination of desolation in the sanctuary. The "league" of Daniel 11 that the "vile person" makes with a small people in Jerusalem, is that Dan.9:27 covenant. The league involves the re-establishing of temple worship with sacrifices at the end of this world.

The "vile person" of Daniel 11 represents the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem in our near future. The idol worship he will setup is shown at the end of Revelation 13 with the "image of the beast", as he will be the "another beast" mentioned there, which is about a 2nd beast, a single person that will work great signs and miracles, raining fire down to earth in the sight of men. That coming Antichrist is still future.

And since the 2nd temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. and they did not fulfill the AOD, and another Jewish temple has never been built to this day, we know there will be another temple built for the end of this world to fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy. A standing Jewish temple is... required to fulfill it, simply because the AOD is about the placing of an idol abomination inside the temple at Jerusalem in false worship.
 
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chevyontheriver

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It's Strongs 105 (Bird of prey) it can be eagle or vulture depending on the context. You are right eagles don't eat corpses. So the text strongly supports vultures.
Bald eagles do eat road kill. As do red tailed hawks. I've seen it myself.
 
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Davy

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Most translations use the word "vultures", because they (rightly so) are surprised by the word "eagle" here. Eagles do not eat corpses, vultures do.

But Jesus (or the gospel authors) knew Jesus was talking about Romans. Thats why "eagles" are there.

In connection with Paul's warning in 2 Corinthians 11 about Satan's servants transformed as "ministers of righteousness" and Satan himself transformed as "an angel of light", I see the "eagles" having another symbolic meaning.

In the OT, the eagle was used both by God for Himself, and about Satan, but in the sense of his exalting himself. Satan's original rebellion was afterall about coveting God's throne, wanting to be GOD.

And because our Lord Jesus warned about a coming pseudo-Messiah working great signs and wonders that would almost deceive even Christ's very elect, and Paul covered this point also about the falling away to the "man of sin" in Jerusalem is coming to exalt himself as God, then the 'eagles' idea actually fits this scenario.

The deceived who will 'seek' to be gathered by Messiah will not wait for the true Messiah (Jesus) who comes afterwards. They will be deceived and think this first Messiah, a pseudo-Messiah our Lord warned us about, will be Christ, but it won't be. Thus they will be gathered wheresoever the 'eagles' (fake eagles) are.
 
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jgr

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Abomination that maketh Desolate

Matthew 24:14-15
[14]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; AND THEN SHALL THE END COME.
[15]When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Where did Daniel speak about an abomination of desolation?

Daniel 11:31 KJV — And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE.

Daniel 11:45
[45]And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

In 508 AD king Clovis and the Franks defeated the Visigoths and paved the way for the papacy to fully develop. See this link on more info about 508ad:
http://www.patmospapers.com/daniel/in508.htm

This was extremely important because the CHURCH (PAPACY) used the STATE (king CLOVIS) to eventually uproot/wipe out 3 Germanic tribes from 508-538 AD. These 3 tribes where the Ostrogoths, Vandals, and Visigoths, they were Arian which means non-Trinitarian. See this link: Arianism - Wikipedia The church fornicating with the state is an ABOMINATION to God.

A pure woman in bible prophecy is a church:

Ephesians 5:25-27
[25]Husbands, love your WIVES, even as Christ ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it;
[26]That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27]That he might present it to himself a GLORIOUS CHURCH, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

A harlot in bible prophecy is an apostate church:

Jeremiah 3:6-8
[6]The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding ISRAEL hath done? SHE is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath PLAYED THE HARLOT.
[7]And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
[8]And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding ISRAEL COMMITTED ADULTERY I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israel was the church in the wilderness:

Acts 7:37-38
[37]This is that Moses, WHICH SAID UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38]This is he, that was in the CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Therefore a church is liken to a woman.

Now lets get to the end time application of church and state that Jesus warned us we should look out for.

Revelation 17:3,5,12,16
[3]So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a WOMAN (church) sit upon a scarlet coloured BEAST (kingdom or state, Daniel 7:23), full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns (kings, Daniel 8:21).
[5]And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[12]And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[16]And the ten horns (kings) which thou sawest upon the beast (church), these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her DESOLATE and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

The abomination of the woman is her fornicating with the beast:

Leviticus 18:22-23
[22]Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: IT IS ABOMINATION.
[23]Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Revelation 17:3 is the church and state abomination that maketh her desolate.

Lets look and see how prophecy is being fulfilled today:

Pope Francis’s address to a joint session of Congress on September 24, 2015 marked a first in the history of the Catholic Church and United States.
Pope Francis Visits U.S. Congress/

This happened one day after the Day of Atonement/Judgment Day. One of God's holy days where he judges the children of Israel, and those who didn't afflict their souls and confess their sins were cut off.

The church also met with the kings of the earth the next day on September 25th, 2015:

The Vatican flag will fly at UN headquarters in New York for the first time on September 25, the date when Pope Francis will speak there.

The UN and the Holy See agreed that the Vatican flag would be raised in the morning with no special ceremony, at the same time that flags of other member-nations are raised.

UN will fly Vatican flag for first time during Pope's visit | News Headlines

This was the beginning of the end that Christ alluded to in Matthew 24:15, church and state.

Recently:
NEW YORK - President Donald Trump identified himself as the “best [president] in the history of the Catholic Church” in a conference call for Catholic leaders and educators Saturday, where he warned that issues at stake in the upcoming presidential election, particularly on abortion and religious liberty, “have never been more important for the Church.”
Trump says he's 'best president in history of the Church' in call with Catholic leaders/

This was in April this year. Trump is going to do all he can for the catholic church and that relationship is an abomination.

The constitution of the United States also prohibits this:

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which regulate an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, or abridge the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble, or the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

Now because of this abomination (church and state) God will judge the church and WHEN she is burned with fire this is a judgment from God that has its roots in the law of God.

Revelation 18:2,4-5,8
[2]And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[4]And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
[5]For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
[8]Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Thus saith the Lord:

Leviticus 21:9
[9]And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

She (the church) has fornicated with the kings of the earth and she will be burnt with fire.

Matthew 11:15 KJV — He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


It was the Roman armies, bearing pagan ensigns considered abominations by the Jews, advancing upon the holy city of Jerusalem to wreak its desolation in 70 AD; who were the abomination of desolation.

These were the fulfillment of the Daniel 9:27 abominations (Roman armies) with which he (Messiah) made it (Jerusalem) desolate, the confirming prophecy of the Roman armies which were Messiah's instruments of judgment, destruction, and desolation.
 
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Abomination that maketh Desolate

Matthew 24:14-15
[14]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; AND THEN SHALL THE END COME.
[15]When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Where did Daniel speak about an abomination of desolation?

During 167 BC, Antiochus Epiphanes killed thousands of Jews, and stopped the temple sacrifices.
He also had a pig sacrificed on the altar, and had a statue set up in the sanctuary. After he was defeated the temple was cleansed, and rededicated. The Jews of Jesus time "understood" this because they celebrated Hanukkah every year.


From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.



John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 
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klutedavid

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The abomination of desolation (or the abomination that makes desolate) is Christians worshiping the antichrist.

The "holy place" Jesus referred to is His saints on earth---that same "outer court" of God's heavenly temple mentioned in the Revelation which is going to be given over by God to the sons of the devil to trample (through persecution and martyrdom) for 3 1/2 years (the time of great tribulation).

Christians are the only people who have Someone in them to leave them. The unsaved are already empty and alone. They cannot be made desolate as they don't have the Spirit of Jesus in them.

Any Christian who chooses to take the mark of the beast and worship him will forfeit his or her eternal life. The Holy Spirit will depart from them forever and they will spend eternity in the lake of fire. ( Hence the call for the saints to persevere during that time of persecution and to not forsake the Lord to their destruction.)

The abomination of desolation standing in the holy place is the same thing that Paul described in 2nd Thessalonians: the son of perdition (the antichrist) taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
The (only) temple of God is the church, and those Christians who fall away from their faith in that time and who take the mark of the beast and worship his image will be rejecting and replacing Christ as their spiritual head and their God with him (essentially with Satan incarnate).

The rebellion of the saints is already raging. It's only a matter of time before the antichrist is revealed and many of them commit the ultimate act of rebellion by worshiping the antichrist in order to save their earthly lives. They don't love and are not faithful to Jesus now; much less will they be in the most intense of trials.
No it's not.

The desolation of the temple is what Luke talks about and what Daniel refers to.

Luke in chapter 21 just refers to the desolation or destruction of the temple.

Luke 21:20
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

The temple and Jerusalem are ruined, desolate, and that is an abomination.
 
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Davy

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Antiochus Epiphanes did not fulfill the Daniel 11 Scripture about the "vile person". He can serve as a 'partial' blueprint, but he didn't fulfill all the parameters of the prophecy.

The "vile person" of Daniel 11 is to come to power using peace. Antiochus didn't do this. His army under Apollonius was commanded to slay and destroy, which is what he did in taking Jerusalem by force. They also took the city of David and setup defenses there, and controlled Jerusalem from there. Antiochus then went into the temple and desolated by removing its artifacts and sacrificing swine and setting up an idol abomination to Zeus. Nor did Antiochus make any 'covenant' or 'league' with those in Jerusalem, which is part of the Dan.11 prophecy of the "vile person".

So Josephus assumed Antiochus IV did all those things written in the Dan.11 prophecy, but he didn't. Yet Antiochus IV does serve as a partial fulfillment of the Daniel prophecy, because he did do some of those things written in Daniel 11.
 
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