Abiogenesis

[renniks]

From various sources. They have been shown to form naturally.

From what? And how?
There is no inherent chemical tendency for a series of bases (three at a time) to line up a series of R-groups in the orderly way required for life. The base/R-group relationship has to be imposed on matter; it has no basis within matter.

 

[Strathos]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

Are you suggesting that a series of chemical reactions took place; and that those compounds lasted for millions of years until one day they all came together?

If that were the case then why wouldn't these compounds be all over the place, especially considering all of the bio-matter that has piled up all of the planet from terminated plant and animal lives?

I believe the idea (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that for a period of millions of years, you have pretty much the entire earth's surface where different chemical reactions can take place. And the vast majority of those reactions won't create life, but all it takes is for it to happen once, at one place, at one time, before it starts reproducing and eventually spreads across the planet.

At least that is what I have heard.

 

[Larniavc]

Out of what? Where do the acids come from?

From the molecules present on Earth after it had formed from the stellar material left when the sun formed within a stellar nursery.

 

[HARK!]

It's gotten much less shaky in the last forty years and still remains the only reasonable possibility.

I just don't believe it. I'll wait until it can be proven. I don't like to jump to conclusions.

 

[Larniavc]

I didn't want to to take a lot of time to study this subject.

/end thread

 

[renniks]

From the molecules present on Earth after it had formed from the stellar material left when the sun formed within a stellar nursery.

Where did matter come from?
And has anyone ever observed, matter spontaneously creating life?

 

[HARK!]

I believe the idea (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that for a period of millions of years, you have pretty much the entire earth's surface where different chemical reactions can take place. And the vast majority of those reactions won't create life, but all it takes is for it to happen once, at one place, at one time, before it starts reproducing and eventually spreads across the planet.

At least that is what I have heard.

If it could happen once by happenstance; why not again in a ideal lab environment?

 

[HARK!]

/end thread

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Speedwell]

I just don't believe it. I'll wait until it can be proven. I don't like to jump to conclusions.

Well, something happened, because there is life on the planet now, and it hasn't always been here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

From what? And how?
There is no inherent chemical tendency for a series of bases (three at a time) to line up a series of R-groups in the orderly way required for life. The base/R-group relationship has to be imposed on matter; it has no basis within matter.

Seriously? You do not know of the Miller-Urey experiment or that amino acids have been found in meteorites?

Your claim is simply incorrect.

 

[Strathos]

If it could happen once by happenstance; why not again in a ideal lab environment?

I suppose it could, but I think the point is that it would be very improbable unless you had a lab the size of the entire earth running experiments for millions of years on end.

 

[Speedwell]

If it could happen once by happenstance; why not again in a ideal lab environment?

Why do you call that "happenstance?" An orderly biochemical process is hardly "happenstance."

 

[HARK!]

I suppose it could, but I think the point is that it would be very improbable unless you had a lab the size of the entire earth running experiments for millions of years on end.

So in other words happenstance in a lab? That doesn't sound like science.

 

[HARK!]

Why do you call that "happenstance?" An orderly biochemical process is hardly "happenstance."

Thank you for correcting me.

What exactly is this process?

 

[Larniavc]

From what? And how?
There is no inherent chemical tendency for a series of bases (three at a time) to line up a series of R-groups in the orderly way required for life. The base/R-group relationship has to be imposed on matter; it has no basis within matter.

Not so. Take a look at the following to see how peptides and amino acids can self assemble

Self-Assembling Peptides and Their Application in the Treatment of Diseases

Amino Acid Based Self-assembled Nanostructures: Complex Structures from Remarkably Simple Building Blocks

Relatively straight forwards.

 

[Strathos]

So in other words happenstance in a lab? That doesn't sound like science.

Well if scientists don't know precisely how life first started (and they don't), they can't exactly reproduce it except by trying a bunch of different things and hoping one of them works. But they admit that's an extreme long shot.

 

[Speedwell]

Thank you for correcting me.

What exactly is this process?

The interaction atoms according to known laws just like any other chemical reaction.

 

[HARK!]

The interaction atoms according to known laws just like any other chemical reaction.

I have a basic understanding chemistry. I actually make some of my own chemicals at home.

I'm sorry. I should have stated the question more clearly.

Exactly what are the mechanics of the process for creating life?

 

[HARK!]

Well if scientists don't know precisely how life first started (and they don't), they can't exactly reproduce it except by trying a bunch of different things and hoping one of them works. But they admit that's an extreme long shot.

Yes. We seem to be going in circles on this subject. We have a hypothesis that scientists have been working on for over 70 years with no creation. Let alone being able to reproduce the results. It reminds me of when the alchemists were trying to create gold. I can appreciate their tenacity.

 

[Strathos]

Yes. We seem to be going in circles on this subject. We have a hypothesis that scientists have been working on for over 70 years with no creation. Let alone being able to reproduce the results. It reminds me of when the alchemists were trying to create gold. I can appreciate their tenacity.

Funny thing: Nuclear physics eventually allowed us to turn lead into gold.

Problem was, the process was more expensive than the value of the resulting gold, and said gold was radioactive.