Response to Mark's Post #37--PART 1
mark kennedy said:
gladiatrix said:
You have used methodological naturalism (MN)and theology as though the two things were somehow interchangeable.
That which may be known of God is manifest in them
Where you got this is a mystery to me but methodological naturalism rejects theology as a matter of course.
What I have come to appreciate is the they have some common ground, abiogenesis is just not one of them.
And what "common ground" do theology and MN share?
mark kennedy said:
gladiatrix said:
I was pointing out to you that IF that is so, then for YOU to continue trying to conflate the two, then you would also have to abide by the rules of MN which can only consider empirical evidence.
I don't know what conflate means but it sounds disgusting
FYI
From the Merriam Webster Dictionary
Main Entry: con·flate
Pronunciation: k&n-'flAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): con·flat·ed; con·flat·ing
Etymology: Latin
conflatus, past participle of
conflare to blow together, fuse, from
com- + flare to blow -- more at BLOW
1 a : to bring together :
FUSE b : CONFUSE
2 : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole
And for an example of such conflation all we need do is look at your previous statement:
mark kennedy said:
That which may be known of God is manifest in them
Where you got this is a mystery to me but methodological naturalism rejects theology as a matter of course. What I have come to appreciate is the they have some common ground, abiogenesis is just not one of them.
1. Now of course abiogenesis would NOT be a "common ground". Looks like you just contradicted your contention that abiogenesis IS some form of theology. Thank you for admitting that abiogenesis is not theology since you contend that MN/abiogenesis IS theology.
2. And again, I want to see this alleged "common ground" between MN and theology (looks like conflation to me).
mark kennedy said:
and I have no problem discerning between NM and Christian theism.
If that is so, then you will no longer continue to demand that abiogenesis, scientific theory (MN uses empirical evidence) must accept your God (theology, NO empirical evidence) as an explanation for the appearance of life on earth. No? the why not? Your god-belief is NOT a scientific proposition.
mark kennedy said:
You seem very confused about both and your a prime example of how if you accept anything in NM you have to accept all of it, and if you reject part you have to reject it all.
Don't project your confusion/mind-set onto me.
mark kennedy said:
You seem very confused about both and your a prime example of how if you accept anything in NM you have to accept all of it, and if you reject part you have to reject it all.
[SPELLING-GRAMMAR NAZI]
It's not
"your", but "you're"
[/SPELLLING-GRAMMER NAZI]
With regard to the bolded part of your statement, this looks like more projection of your own mind-set onto others, because this sort of "all or none" type of "acceptance" is characteristic of religious dogmas/doctrines/ideas. Scientific theories can and do change to reflect new data/better ideas. When was the last time a religious dogma changed/accomodated itself to reflect reality? Hmmm...Oh, wait the Pope did apologize for persecuting Galileo...~400 years after the fact, but that really doesn't have much to do with any present-day Catholic dogma, now does it? And IMO it was done purely as a PR ploy ("see we're not the unscientific, unreasonable bumpkins some may think we are") because Catholic Church no longer has the power to murder/persecute those who disagree with it (wouldn't have happened if the RCC still wielded the power it once had, IMO).
The real problem with faith-based, untestible claims made by religions is that there is NO way to really settle disputes over doctrines, etc. How does one make the "cut" without some kind of tangible evidence? The lack of any real way (evaluative arguments pro or con) to settle such arguments certainly does explain why the history of religion usually written in blood...the only way to "settle" the dispute is through bloodshed/persecution with "history" written by the "winning" side, i. e., "god (s?) was(were) with them" the "winning" side, naturally.
mark kennedy said:
gladiatrix said:
The above means that in order to establish you god as a fact, you would need empirical evidence (to abide by the rules of MN, IF MN and theology are really the same).
Of course you seem to want to be given the usual theistic pass and special plead your deity into existency by mere declaration
What you are resisting is the secret realization that God is revealed to even the most willfully ignorant.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
(Romans 1:18-23,The King James Version, 1769)
Ah yes,
the old classic of threats(the wrath of God riff....yawn!) instead of an argument.
In addition, the since when is divine revelation/personal experience ANY part of methodological naturalism?
Why Personal Experience is NOT Evidence
What empirical evidence (REQUIRED by science) is there that your God has anything to do with the appearance of life on earth?==>You would need such evidence to include your god-belief as the foundation for a SCIENTIFIC theory of how life appeared on earth. Where is it? (this means that you would need evidence both for the existence of your God AND be able to directly link your God to the appearance of life)