AA Christian/Biblical Roots

[vja4Him]

Celebrate Recovery is a Christ-centered, Bible believing, recovery program. We have Bible verses that align with all of the steps. Also, the Bibles aligns with the 8 principles.

There are other Christ-centered recovery programs -- God's Way Out (at our local First Baptist church). There is another Christ-centered recovery program I've heard mentioned, but can't remember the name ....

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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God hates sin. Addiction is sin. No matter who you call God there is no salvation without knowledge of Christ Jesus. God would have us recognize our total depravity, turn to Him in faith, and be transformed (Eph. 2:1-10; 2 Cor. 5:17). This is why so many in these programs have some success abstaining but nothing changes. I do not have any of the answers, our Lord Jesus Christ does. I will not give up hope that one day 12 Step programs might become Christ centered programs. 12 years of abstinence in the rooms is my result of going to meetings, honestly working the steps and helping others. God's saving Grace is my free gift for accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. My chains are gone! I pray everyone in the rooms could experience Him.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

Hi vja4Him, Please reconsider "seeker-friendly church pastors (and those tempted to climb aboard) need to get on their knees and read the words of Jesus to the church of the Laodiceans (Rv 3:14-21). They were “rich, and increased with goods,” yet failed to recognize that in God’s eyes, they were “wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.” Jesus, standing outside their church, where they had unwittingly displaced Him, offers them His counsel, the truth of His Word, which alone will enable them to live their lives for His pleasure. There can be nothing better here on earth, and for all eternity." There is no need to add all of the material or 8 steps or 12 steps or hop scotch to church. Any Bible based church has all that it needs to bring people to God (The Bible). We just refuse to believe that God has provided everything we need to have a relationship with Him.

 

[devonian]

... Please reconsider "seeker-friendly church pastors (and those tempted to climb aboard) need to get on their knees and read the words of Jesus to the church of the Laodiceans (Rv 3:14-21)....

Jesus was the greatest "seeker-friendly" example in the bible. He openly embraced sinners, offering hope and salvation. He ate with tax collectors, gave hope to adulterers, and even turned water into wine. He reserved his harshest condemnations for the pharasees, who were the biblical scholars of the time. They were condemned, not for their knowledge of the bible, but for their legalistic and unloving application of the principles.

...There is no need to add all of the material or 8 steps or 12 steps or hop scotch to church. Any Bible based church has all that it needs to bring people to God (The Bible). We just refuse to believe that God has provided everything we need to have a relationship with Him.

Do you propose that bible based churches should not have sermons? Using your logic, even a sermon is adding material and is unnecessary. I don't know of any church that operates that way. Granted, all advice, whether given verbally in a sermon, or written in the form of steps, must be tested against the bible. This is the point of this thread, to discuss the biblical basis of the steps.


So, I would like to provide a verse that supports step 1:

• We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable. (Romans 7:18) "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

Jesus was the greatest "seeker-friendly" example in the bible. He openly embraced sinners, offering hope and salvation. He ate with tax collectors, gave hope to adulterers, and even turned water into wine. He reserved his harshest condemnations for the pharasees, who were the biblical scholars of the time. They were condemned, not for their knowledge of the bible, but for their legalistic and unloving application of the principles.

Do you propose that bible based churches should not have sermons?

No.

Using your logic, even a sermon is adding material and is unnecessary. I don't know of any church that operates that way. Granted, all advice, whether given verbally in a sermon, or written in the form of steps, must be tested against the bible. This is the point of this thread, to discuss the biblical basis of the steps.

So, I would like to provide a verse that supports step 1:

• We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable. (Romans 7:18) "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

Hi devonian, then why wasn't it written that way.

• We admitted that we were powerless over sin-that our lives had become detestable.

I am not trying to change 12 step literature, I am saying that when a church brings programs like this in, they should not adopt the programs guidlines or use their literature.

 

[devonian]

Hi devonian, then why wasn't it written that way.

• We admitted that we were powerless over sin-that our lives had become detestable.

I am not trying to change 12 step literature, I am saying that when a church brings programs like this in, they should not adopt the programs guidlines or use their literature.

We may be debating different things. I am trying to argue that God can and does work through AA and/or Celebrate Recovery, and that Christians should be willing to use all means necessary to help the suffering alcoholic.

I think you are arguing that the church should not use AA (and possibly Celebrate Recovery) literature to help people recover. They should only use literature that is 100% bible based. (Even if it means some people might die from alcoholism, when the AA literature might have helped them recover.)

These are two very different arguements.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

I am not debating anything. I have been attempting to present the Truth and you seem to think that there is an easier way than the way to God through Jesus Christ. If one can't recover using the Bible, one is not going to recover.

 

[devonian]

...you seem to think that there is an easier way than the way to God through Jesus Christ.

What do you mean by this? Easier way to do what? Recover? Find God? Find salvation?

If one can't recover using the Bible, one is not going to recover.

Do you mean to tell me that no alcoholic has ever recovered though AA?
Is your God too weak to work in the lives of people apart from the Bible?
My God is not that weak. His will, will be done.

 

[vja4Him]

I have seen many people who have recovered from various programs, including secular programs. I am thankful to God that there are such programs to help those who are suffering.

Should we refuse assitance from everyone who offers to help us, if they aren't preaching the Bible and Jesus at us? What about thousands of doctors who help many people everyday?

The Bible says that God's blessings fall not only on the righteous, but also on the wicked! Take that to heart .....

I will continue to thank God for AA, NA, Nirvana, Celebrate Recovery, God's Way Out, hosptials, medicine, and any other program that is helping people to recovery, not only from alcohol and drugs, but from many other issues as well.

One of the leaders in our small group on Friday started his recovery through AA. He now is one of the leaders in Celebrate Recovery, and still chairs AA meetings, and other groups. He has brought many people to Celebrate Recovery, where they hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, experience awesome worship, hear the Bible, prayer, and meet many people who have struggled, and still are struggling, and get to hear totally awesome testimonies about how God has changed their lives.

Check out these testimonies -- CelebrateRecoveryTestimonies

They are awesome!!! I know many, perhaps most, of these people. I see many of them regularly at several churches, meetings, Celebrate Recovery (several different groups), and I've seen God work miracles in their lives through AA, NA, Celebrate Recovery, Nirvana (secular), God's Way Out (First Baptist), and other programs.

I hope that anyone reading this thread will not be discouraged because of some people who are off on a tangent .... Yes, there is only one God, and that God is Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus is the one and only Savior, the only One who can forgive our sins. I agree with all that .....

Some people, many people, are hurting so bad, in agony, tormented with nightmares, night sweats, terrible headaches, pain all over their body, vomiting, cannot eat, or hold any food down, hearing voices, ringing in their hears, can hardly even stand up, cannot think straight, depressed, suicidal, weak, tormented, psychotic, disabled, homeless, hopeless, helpless, etc.

I've experienced most, possibly all of the above, and lots more!!! Let's show some compassion, understanding, support, assistance, patience, love, kindness, etc. That is the true fruit of the Holy Spirit. Not bashing people ...

I guess I'd better shut up!! Time to hit the hay. Have another early day ... must commute to work for the next two weeks. I'm looking forward to Celebrate Recovery this Friday!! What an awesome program!! I would encourage anyone to go, check it out. If there isn't a Celebrate Recovery near you, start one!! Our group started in a barn, only four-five years ago.

We have good fellowship with other believers, good food, totally awesome worship, teaching the 12 steps based on the Bible, testimonies, small groups, then more fellowship afterwards. Celebrate Recovery and God's Way Out offer help for the children as well. Dedicated volunteers are working with kids who come from dysfunctional homes, giving children tools they can use, and sharing God with them, and leaving the kids with hope ....

We start and end our small groups with prayer, and have total freedom to talk about God, Jesus, the Bible, read from the Bible, share scripture.

Many people who attend Celebrate Recovery are not saved. Some have never heard the gospel. Some have never read the Bible. How do I know this? Because I have spoken with those people myself. Some people don't want to hear the gospel, and some don't come back. Others come back years later, because they heard the word, and they are hungry for God, and now they know where to turn to get help from God!!!

AA is a good start for recovery, and many people are led to God through AA. That's my two cents worth for now.

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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What do you mean by this? Easier way to do what? Recover? Find God? Find salvation?

Do you mean to tell me that no alcoholic has ever recovered though AA?
Is your God too weak to work in the lives of people apart from the Bible?
My God is not that weak. His will, will be done.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

I have seen many people who have recovered from various programs, including secular programs. I am thankful to God that there are such programs to help those who are suffering.

I pray for them all the time to find Jesus Christ. With every relapse they are that much closer to death.

Should we refuse assitance from everyone who offers to help us, if they aren't preaching the Bible and Jesus at us? What about thousands of doctors who help many people everyday?

I pray for them too. That they may have God in their lives.

The Bible says that God's blessings fall not only on the righteous, but also on the wicked! Take that to heart .....

I will continue to thank God for AA, NA, Nirvana, Celebrate Recovery, God's Way Out, hosptials, medicine, and any other program that is helping people to recovery, not only from alcohol and drugs, but from many other issues as well.

What issues, sin? Sin manifests itself in many ways. Satan uses all types of situations and demons to create those issues you are referring to.

One of the leaders in our small group on Friday started his recovery through AA. He now is one of the leaders in Celebrate Recovery, and still chairs AA meetings, and other groups. He has brought many people to Celebrate Recovery, where they hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, experience awesome worship, hear the Bible, prayer, and meet many people who have struggled, and still are struggling, and get to hear totally awesome testimonies about how God has changed their lives.

The way to truly recover is putting Jesus first and foremost in your life.

Check out these testimonies

Thank you.

They are awesome!!! I know many, perhaps most, of these people. I see many of them regularly at several churches, meetings, Celebrate Recovery (several different groups), and I've seen God work miracles in their lives through AA, NA, Celebrate Recovery, Nirvana (secular), God's Way Out (First Baptist), and other programs.

The way to truly recover is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope that anyone reading this thread will not be discouraged because of some people who are off on a tangent .... Yes, there is only one God, and that God is Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus is the one and only Savior, the only One who can forgive our sins. I agree with all that .....

Tangent? You are on a Christian forum. Yes, do not be discouraged, do not allow some man made group to tell you, that what you are suffering from is a disease, or that you can choose a room as your higher power, just know that the way to truly turn your life around is to follow Jesus.

Some people, many people, are hurting so bad, in agony, tormented with nightmares, night sweats, terrible headaches, pain all over their body, vomiting, cannot eat, or hold any food down, hearing voices, ringing in their hears, can hardly even stand up, cannot think straight, depressed, suicidal, weak, tormented, psychotic, disabled, homeless, hopeless, helpless, etc.

Sin.

I've experienced most, possibly all of the above, and lots more!!! Let's show some compassion, understanding, support, assistance, patience, love, kindness, etc. That is the true fruit of the Holy Spirit. Not bashing people ...

Can you not see that I have been doing just that. I am not bashing anyone I am just stating facts.

 

[MAC]

There is always the question that we forget to asked those in need of The Doctor, what are you heal from and what are you saved from!

 

[vja4Him]

I pray for them all the time to find Jesus Christ. With every relapse they are that much closer to death.

It seems that you really do not understand, or have no real experience with what I'm taking about. You believe what you do/want .... I will continue to serve the Lord, and help others .......

I pray for them too. That they may have God in their lives.

The Bible says that God's blessings fall not only on the righteous, but also on the wicked! Take that to heart .....



What issues, sin? Sin manifests itself in many ways. Satan uses all types of situations and demons to create those issues you are referring to.

The way to truly recover is putting Jesus first and foremost in your life.

Thank you.

Did you listen to any of the testimonies? Try listening to several .....

The way to truly recover is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Tangent? You are on a Christian forum. Yes, do not be discouraged, do not allow some man made group to tell you, that what you are suffering from is a disease, or that you can choose a room as your higher power, just know that the way to truly turn your life around is to follow Jesus.

Do you think that demons are causing all disease and sickness? Do you believe that we must cast out demons from all sickness/medical problems, even colds, flu, headaches, broken bones, cuts, bruises, etc.??? Please answer that one?

I do not choose a room as my Higher Power!! How rude for you to accuse/assume that I have chosen a room as my Higher Power!! I already stated that Jesus Christ is my Higher Power.

Sin.

Can you not see that I have been doing just that. I am not bashing anyone I am just stating facts.[/quote]

 

[vja4Him]

I would like to get this thread back on track .... The original intent was to discuss, diplomatically, and honestly, the early beginnings of AA, especially relating to influence from the Bible, Christianity, and Christian organizations.

Has anyone every heard about the James Club? I found some good information on the James Club. Please share any information you have on the James Club, or other insights regarding the original purpose of this thread that I started.

Thank you and God bless ....

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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[vja4Him]

I've been reading from material I received from Dick B. regarding early AA history. Some of the early AA members suggested they name their group "The James Club."

Bill, Bob and Anne would have their sessions together, according the Oxford Group practice, which included reading from the Bible, especially the Sermon On The Mount (Matthew chapters 5-7), First Corinthians chapter 13, and the book of James.

I found these interesting links:

A.A.History:TheOriginalAAProgram
TheSpiritualBeginningsofAAbyDickB


-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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[vja4Him]

Here is an interesting page, with lots of links to Pre A.A. history:

The History of Alcoholics Anonymous: Pre A.A.

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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[MAC]

Hello everyone, I wont resurface earlier conversations but I have to go back and read some of the quotes again. There is good points in the arguments presented but the reality is that even do God does not need the help from man to make a man whole He have use humans to assist in is His plan of salvation for His glory. We can read in the account on Exodus 18 a very beautiful way in how God works in the life's of men.. "The Body Of Christ"

 

[MAC]

Here is an interesting page, with lots of links to Pre A.A. history:

The History of Alcoholics Anonymous: Pre A.A.

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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I have found this link, if you would like to take a look at it and let me know.
http://sponsortosponsor.com/monday.html

 

[ww2pigeon]

Check out Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, it speak quite a bit about the Oxford Group. And the religious/spiritaul aspects of A.A. I believe that you may even be able to contact New York Head Quarters and they maybe able to give you more information. God Bless.

 

[vja4Him]

Thanks for suggesting the book, "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers." I definitely want to read that ...

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

Check out Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, it speak quite a bit about the Oxford Group. And the religious/spiritaul aspects of A.A. I believe that you may even be able to contact New York Head Quarters and they maybe able to give you more information. God Bless.

 

[devonian]

vja4him,

Are you interested in using this thread to also discuss bible passages that support ideas, concepts, and the steps in the "big book" ? Or would you like to keep the discussion to how AA was practiced during its early years?

 

[vja4Him]

Hello Devonian -- Yes, that would be great!! In the beginning, before AA was the official name, the Bible played a big part in recovery. I've noticed many references in the Big Book that mention God, and many inferences to belief and trust in God.

Please feel to share your references and insight .... I just want to keep this thread positive and supportive of AA, Celebrate Recovery, and other recovery programs. I don't agree with everything in AA, but I'm not putting the program down.

I'm glad that many people have found AA, and have quit alcohol and drugs. I just want to delve into the early roots, and share some of the early writings, inspiring stories, articles, references, etc., and continue to encourage people to keep comin' back, as I've heard in many groups.

-- vja4Him (living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardship as a pathway to peace -- James 1:2,3; Isaiah 26:3)
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vja4him,

Are you interested in using this thread to also discuss bible passages that support ideas, concepts, and the steps in the "big book" ? Or would you like to keep the discussion to how AA was practiced during its early years?