Is it possible to have any genuine love for Christ without regeneration?

[Neostarwcc]

It is famously said by RC Sproul "no it is impossible for people to have any genuine love for the true christ without regeneration, thus salvation to take place."

My question and the topic of this thread is going to be, is this true? I find what Sproul says on this topic intriguing and I think there is a lot of truth to it but is it really true?

Can a regenerate person not have love for Christ? I think the answer to that question is, of course not! But what about on the flip side? When inspected there seems to be examples of "Christians" who do not have a genuine love for Christ nor care about living for him at all. They don't care about his wrath or fear his disappointment and therefore do whatever they want because Christ died for them right? (I say wrong but my opinion should not be under discussion here) while these people are clearly unregenerate is it possible for a regenerate person to temporarily not display this love and affection. Or never display this affection at all?

Of course, Sproul made sure that it was perfectly clear that he meant the genuine Christ as he appears in scripture and to the apostles. No matter what your Christian denomination every true Christian loves the Biblical Christ and wants to please him. But is it possible for a unregenerate person to feel and claim love for the Biblical Christ? Afterall, if you carry the name "Christian" you should love the Biblical Christ. He was afterall, divine, healed the sick and lame, taught things about scripture that the Jews had never thought of before, taught peace and love and lots of other wonderful things.

But, the overwhelming desire to please the biblical God that happens to every Christian. Can this exist in unregenerate non believers as well? Or, is Sproul correct and this is impossible? Hope I'm making sense with this discussion.

 

[RandyPNW]

It is famously said by RC Sproul "no it is impossible for people to have any genuine love for the true christ without regeneration, thus salvation to take place."

My question and the topic of this thread is going to be, is this true? I find what Sproul says on this topic intriguing and I think there is a lot of truth to it but is it really true?

Can a regenerate person not have love for Christ? I think the answer to that question is, of course not! But what about on the flip side? When inspected there seems to be examples of "Christians" who do not have a genuine love for Christ nor care about living for him at all. They don't care about his wrath or fear his disappointment and therefore do whatever they want because Christ died for them right? (I say wrong but my opinion should not be under discussion here) while these people are clearly unregenerate is it possible for a regenerate person to temporarily not display this love and affection. Or never display this affection at all?

Of course, Sproul made sure that it was perfectly clear that he meant the genuine Christ as he appears in scripture and to the apostles. No matter what your Christian denomination every true Christian loves the Biblical Christ and wants to please him. But is it possible for a unregenerate person to feel and claim love for the Biblical Christ? Afterall, if you carry the name "Christian" you should love the Biblical Christ. He was afterall, divine, healed the sick and lame, taught things about scripture that the Jews had never thought of before, taught peace and love and lots of other wonderful things.

But, the overwhelming desire to please the biblical God that happens to every Christian. Can this exist in unregenerate non believers as well? Or, is Sproul correct and this is impossible? Hope I'm making sense with this discussion.

I think the term "Born Again" or "Regenerate" is misused. Jesus applied the term in the OT era when speaking to Nicodemus, assuming that Nicodemus *should have* understood what the term meant. And that's because everything God does and says requires spirituality, and not just intellectual understanding. Every act of virtue requires attention to the power of God's word that commands us to do so.

So "regeneration" is recognition of the spiritual values involved in carrying out God's word. Even more, it is a complete commitment to the same, just as if a person is "reborn." A new life is started in place of the old life by putting off a former way of life for a new way of life. This happened for Israel when they reformed under the Law as much as it happens today for Christians. The former life of sin and selfishness is put away in favor of living cooperatively with God's word.

If that is what Sproul believed, I strongly disagree with him. People can truly love Christ without even being a Christian, without being completely committed to him. Jesus loved a young Jewish man who had been keeping all the Law out of love for God, even though he could not bring himself to make the full commitment to "regeneration."

Take Apollos, who initially preached Jesus openly, publicly, and enthusiastically. Yet Christians recognized that he was not yet living the full regenerate life. And so they explained to him the "way of God more fully."

We all have a free will, Christian or not. That's why we can choose Christ even if we are not a Christian or are not following Christ in a fully committed lifestyle. But the change God wants is a full commitment to living for Christ, which is what "regeneration" is.

Thanks for the question. It's a good one. My opinion only...

 

[bling]

I agree you cannot “Love” Christ prior to being born again/regenerated, but a person prior to being regenerated can for selfish (sinful) reasons humbly accept God’s undeserved charity as charity (Love).



Godly type Love is a huge subject which Books have been written.

Just using the word “Agape” to describe it does not do it justice, but as an introduction let us start with the objective:

Everything needs to start with the objective.

The differences and issues begin with misunderstanding of the objective. Most Christians like: Man’s objective is to “bring glory to God” and have scripture references to support that objective, but a person can take any commandment or direction of God given in scripture and have Biblical support for call that command: “Man’s Objective”. We are certainly commanded to do that command, so why is it not man’s objective?

There are the two superior commands which all other commands are subordinate to and combined would be like: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy.” That appears to be man’s “Mission Statement”. The huge problem with fulfilling that “Mission Statement” is the fact that the “Love” needed would have to be huge, way beyond anything man could develop, learn, deserve, earn, pay back, be instinctive to man, or somehow just be forced upon humans.

Thus, the reason you have free will, is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world which includes satan roaming around is not here for your pleasure, but to help each of us to become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like create another Christ, since Christ has always existed, the big impossibility for us is; create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

Read the story of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15, the young son was generously given more then he could handle (like most of us today), which the father would realize. The prodigal son returned to his father, not out of “Love”, but selfishly wanting a job he did not deserve or should even ask for. Just because the son became just willing to accept pure undeserved charity from the father he hated, allowed the father to shower him with gifts. God is that way with you.

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.

Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.

God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus the willing become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).

What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time.

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burden them, to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

Sin has purpose in helping willing humans in fulfilling their objective. God does not like it but allows it.

Unfortunately, I, along with others, needed to see and know the brevity of life in order to respond sooner than later. Time is not on our side, since we do not get better, but worse. If everyone had at least 60 years, there would be no rush to repent and repenting does not get easier with time. We all tend to spiral down into the pigsty of life (like the prodigal son) and that does help, if when we do come to our senses we turn to the Father, but that does not have to take 60 years.

Let me just give you an example of How God works to help willing individuals.

If the nonbeliever had knowledge of God's existence that person would not need faith in God's existence, but faith is needed for humility and humility is needed to humbly accept pure charity and the only way to get Godly type Love is through accepting it as pure charity in the form of forgiveness.

This also shows a “need” for man to sin.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Thought I would add the source for context:

Can I Be Sure I’m Saved?

At a practical level, people who are struggling with their assurance of salvation often approach me and ask, “How can I know I am saved?” In response, I ask the

www.ligonier.org

 

[Brightfame52]

No its not possible to have a genuine love for Christ/God before regeneration. We must receive a new heart for that, whats called a circumcised heart, which one receives in regeneration

Deut 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Rom 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.