A Voice of Dissent in the Orthodox Church

[127.0.0.1]

You can't blame someone for being a tad depressed when the Church calls them to a life of celibacy when they would rather not be celibate.

Perhaps a list of all the people you can find who cured their homosexuality and got rid of it entirely would be inspiring?

Or even a list of all those you can find who fought against it and lived in celibacy!
Fr. Seraphim Rose would be number #1 on the second list. Anyone know of any other notible Orthodox figures (Saints or otherwise) who were LGBT?

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

My thoughts on the article...

I read it, and without an ounce of sarcasim immediately thought "anathema."

His views are not Orthodox. Orthodox Christians are NOT allowed to use birth control, and his opinions are NOT in line with Church teaching.

But you already knew this Justin.

Having two cousins who are gay and lead an openly gay lifestyle, I see how unhappy they are, and how miserable thier lives are. One has tried to commit suicide multiple times, and the other is estranged from his family.

What you have that they don't is the tools that Orthodoxy provides to help you in your struggles with sin. As Michael indicated, we all have our vices, we all have our passions. Praise God, the Orthodox Church helps us fight them and overcome them!

I pray that you are able to find a Spiritual Father to help you through this.

 

[rusmeister]

Right. Because love is wrong, and love is a passion, right?

Which love are you talking about? Agape, storge, eros, friendship?

It's obviously eros.

Some people, no matter what their sexual attraction, wind up living celibate through no choice of their own, or more accurately, while striving to live by faith. They do without eros, and no doubt struggle with temptation periodically. Ask St Mary of Egypt. They still have agape, affection and friendship in their lives, which are also manifestations of love. Some are even monks. Some just seek to have God's will rule in their lives.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Since it often makes one feel better to know they are not alone. I still think a list of LGBT Orthodox Christians (notable figures, Saints or otherwise) in the Church would be a good idea.

 

[Julina]

there is no liturgy for a gay marriage

 

[choirfiend]

About Me

The author is a former priest of the Orthodox Church and a former Christian, and the divorced father of five and grandfather of one.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

In Byzantium, homosexuals were made into eunuchs-- and then given government jobs!

Hey, maybe Sanfillipo should seek chemical castration and then run for congress?

 

[Michael G]

In Byzantium, homosexuals were made into eunuchs-- and then given government jobs!

Hey, maybe Sanfillipo should seek chemical castration and then run for congress?

Justin, I highly think you do not want to be castrated and made into a eunuch. Do you?

 

[silouanathonite]

He was defrocked. He didn't leave. His wife left HIM, not the other way around. Only many years after all of this did he find a new partner.

When the wife of a priest decides to leave a priest, the priest does not automatically get defrocked. I know of such cases where a wife decides to leave and the priest still serves because if was not a choice he made. For him to be defrocked, he had to have done something else.

What exactly are you looking for Justin? Are you looking for a way to justify your actions? I do it all the time, but it still doesn't make what I do correct. It just makes me realize I can do nothing without Christ and that I need help. If you are looking for justification, then you can go to many other places besides TAW or to an article that does nothing but tempt you. Your situation is tough, but it doesn't make your struggle any different than many other human beings in this world whether it comes from alcohol, sex addiction, anger, etc. The difference is that those who finally make it are those who are obedient and keep their eyes on God. This is true because this is example that Christ gave us. Even when struggling with having to die and sweating blood in the process, he was obedient to the Father. This is your cross, take it up daily and follow Christ.

 

[silouanathonite]

Love isn't a demon, Proto.

We are straying from my OP, I think. =/

I have a question for you Justin. What is your definition of love? No one here would say or incinuate love (in the Truest manner of the word, not the world's) as a passion or a demon. It would be nice to know what you think we are saying so we can listen properly.

 

[Michael G]

When the wife of a priest decides to leave a priest, the priest does not automatically get defrocked. I know of such cases where a wife decides to leave and the priest still serves because if was not a choice he made. For him to be defrocked, he had to have done something else.

What exactly are you looking for Justin? Are you looking for a way to justify your actions? I do it all the time, but it still doesn't make what I do correct. It just makes me realize I can do nothing without Christ and that I need help. If you are looking for justification, then you can go to many other places besides TAW or to an article that does nothing but tempt you. Your situation is tough, but it doesn't make your struggle any different than many other human beings in this world whether it comes from alcohol, sex addiction, anger, etc. The difference is that those who finally make it are those who are obedient and keep their eyes on God. This is true because this is example that Christ gave us. Even when struggling with having to die and sweating blood in the process, he was obedient to the Father. This is your cross, take it up daily and follow Christ.

The context of all of Justin's posts on Orthodoxy and homosexuality is for Justin to attempt to find some way in which he can squeeze by Church teaching and find justification and approval for his choice to live a homosexual lifestyle.

 

[Barky]

The context of all of Justin's posts on Orthodoxy and homosexuality is for Justin to attempt to find some way in which he can squeeze by Church teaching and find justification and approval for his choice to live a homosexual lifestyle.

Prayers for Justin.

Justin, you consistently post articles like these on TAW and DC. You want to be gay and Orthodox, and there is no such thing. The church teaches the gay identity to be a delusion, stemming from thoughts and nothing more. Lord have mercy

 

[Michael G]

Justin you are always in our prayers, but we can not support the decision toward the lifestyle you have chosen.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Just out of curiosity.
What's the gay lifestyle? I mean, what must one do/be doing to qualify as living it?

 

[gzt]

I think it involves short shorts.

More specifically, I think he means the expression of homosexual eros. Actually, that's a bit wider than "the gay lifestyle", since "gay" did not really exist, as such, until rather recently in history. See monastic injunctions against keeping company with women or young boys, for instance, in the sayings of the desert fathers.

 

[Barky]

Just out of curiosity.
What's the gay lifestyle? I mean, what must one do/be doing to qualify as living it?

I would say acting on any same-sex attraction impulse would be considered "living it". Though we all fail in this regard, we all live sinful lives and are "living it" (that is, a sinful life) but we are also always repenting, trying, praying for help. It is the reluctance to do so that turns us away completely from God. A rebellion against God and His ways only leads to heart break and despair.

 

[Lukaris]

A big problem with some "dissenting" voices is that the agenda is to undermine the traditional belief structure, plunder its assets, and promote an agenda while holding the traditionalists hostage financially & in areas of freedom of expression (articulation of basic Christian belief becomes hate filled sentiment in alleged sensitive areas).Hireling wolves become shepards of the flock and are expert at using canon laws to enforce false theology while subverting the faith and defrauding the faithful both spiritually & financially. No where is this most evident than in the Episcopal Church USA (for instance see http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9571 ) This "disenting" voice sounds like such a probe to gain such a foothold and do not be swayed by deceptive rhetoric.

 

[127.0.0.1]

I think it involves short shorts.

Whew! So I'm still safe to shop at the GAP, which probably has to be the gayest store of all time.

A big problem with some "dissenting" voices is that the agenda is to undermine the traditional belief structure, plunder its assets, and promote an agenda while holding the traditionalists hostage financially & in areas of freedom of expression (articulation of basic Christian belief becomes hate filled sentiment in alleged sensitive areas).

I can't think of any gay OC groups that charge members a fee.

A cult is an organization that exploits its member for its own gains either, psychologically, physiologically, or financially. *Cough* Mormons *cough* Scientology *cough*.

 

[gzt]

Most seriously, man, you're 17. You have plenty of time when you're older to start thinking about sex. For a good proportion of people, you really shouldn't be thinking about marriage and crap for at least 4 or 5 more years. So first you should focus on who God is, who Jesus Christ is, and how you should live. Read the Gospels, pray the Psalms, give alms, do your work in school and on the job with your best effort, love your enemies, attend the church services regularly, don't waste your time on teh internets. Start slowly, even if it's only 15 minutes of silence before God. Christ only promised us suffering. The truth will wound us. Take up your cross and follow. Do that for a few years and when you're old enough for real relations, then you can think about it. I think it's worthless to discuss and debate theology without that very real prerequisite in place, the hard search for truth as the Church has told us, and that it's further worthless to discuss these things which would be theoretical at this stage in your life even if you were right.

 

[Lukaris]

Whew! So I'm still safe to shop at the GAP, which probably has to be the gayest store of all time.



I can't think of any gay OC groups that charge members a fee.

A cult is an organization that exploits its member for its own gains either, psychologically, physiologically, or financially. *Cough* Mormons *cough* Scientology *cough*.

I do not understand your post, what I am saying is that an individual (the "dissenting" article writer) is probably using sentiment to sway opinion for an agenda and to use a form of legal extortion to further it. I am not inferring anything about anyone's orientation per se. Within a secular understanding it is only common sense that Orthodox Christian theology is incompatible with certain lifestyles but at the same need not harbor any phobias. (by the "dissenter" I mean the former priest not the OP of course).