A solid example from Scripture please.

[Major1]

The angels had/have dominion over the nations (Deut 32:8). The Law (which provokes repentance) was given through angels (Gal 3:19) The Gospel is proclaimed by angels (Luke 2: 11-13). God is enthroned between the cherubim (Exodus 25:22).

We have access to God through the blood of Christ, but when we approach him we are approaching the cherubim as well (Heb 12:22-24). Christ's mediatorship doesn't mean that he works alone. It means that the whole cosmos (including his angels) are filled with his glory and radiate his salvation (Psalm 19) .

We may have to agree to disagree on 1Enoch. I was discussing this issue with an Orthodox friend of mine and he pointed out 1 Corinthians 15:29. Christians were being baptized as an eternal memorial to the dead in Christ. That is, they had 'patron saints'. So, this example can be found in the Protestant canon.

If you in some way think that I will agree with you on the Book of Enoch.....think again.

I can not accept a book that is Heretical and Occultic and full of Blasphemy and I am perplexed at how any Christian could.

You do not have to take my thoughts on this. YOU do the work. YOU look up Scriptures in YOUR Bible.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

John 5 :3-5 DOES NOT HAVE A NAMED
ANGEL!

Raphael means, 'God Heals'. It was by God that the Angel was able to churn the waters making them miraculous.

Mary and Joseph were NOT SET over anyone's salvation.

They were. Christ in his person is our salvation. He had a mother and father toward whom he was obedient:

And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them. But His mother kept all these things in her heart. Lk 2:51

Not only that but, Mary carried him for nine months protecting him in her womb. Joseph protected him from the government:

After they were gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Get up! Take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you. For Herod is about to search for the child to kill him. Matt 2:13

Joseph provided a home and a name for him:
When the eight days were completed for his circumcision, he was named Jesus—the name given by the angel before he was conceived. Luke 2:21

Where in the world are you getting this nonsense? What are your sources?????

The Bible. Joseph and Mary were responsible for our salvation as the very real earthly parents of Jesus.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Why are we having this conversation then? You said several days ago that you weren't combating me. But it seems like here, you are. You don't have to agree with me, but I'd rather prefer to talk to people who are open to my pov.

If you in some way think that I will agree with you on the Book of Enoch.....think again.

I can not accept a book that is Heretical and Occultic and full of Blasphemy and I am perplexed at how any Christian could.

You do not have to take my thoughts on this. YOU do the work. YOU look up Scriptures in YOUR Bible.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Not only is it Occult...it is complete Heresy and Blasphemy!

Occult involves the supernatural. There is nothing particularly supernatural about 1 Enoch. It doesn't report to give us cantations, the secrets of life or hidden knowledge.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

You and I have a different idea of 'set' then

And where in those 3 Scriptures does it say that those angels are set over the salvation of men??????

You are trying to make Scriptures say what YOU want them to say. Simply read the words of Scripture and accept them as they are printed. This is just not as hard as you are making it.

Looking down upon, servings and ministering does not = set over salvation!!!

 

[Major1]

You and I have a different idea of 'set' then

Yes we do.

According to the US Legal website of definitions at (Set Over Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.)

SET OVER..... means to assign, to transfer or to convey.

So in your understanding YOU belive that Raphael and Phanuel have been SET OVER your eternalsalvation.

YOU.... base that entirely on the OCCULTIC Heresy of the book of Enoch.

The Bible however says in John 14:16.........
“I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.”

Acts 4:12.....
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

So YES.

 

[Major1]

Occult involves the supernatural. There is nothing particularly supernatural about 1 Enoch. It doesn't report to give us cantations, the secrets of life or hidden knowledge.

It is clear to me that you will use every excuss you can come up with from internet blogs to support your opinion.

READ the book of Enoch and you will see that The Book of Enoch uses unfamiliar OCCULTIC terminology, referring to the "Lord of Spirits" and the "Head of Days." These terms are foreign to the Word of God. The messiah is NOT directly mentioned. The ambiguous mention of the Lord Jesus in the Book of Enoch, is eerily reminiscent of Freemasonry (who worship the "Great Architect" ...an undefined, ambiguous, universal god). This is the false god of New Age and trhat is OCCULTIC. . It is worthy to note that Christ's deity is never mentioned in the Book of Enoch.

 

[Major1]

Why are we having this conversation then? You said several days ago that you weren't combating me. But it seems like here, you are. You don't have to agree with me, but I'd rather prefer to talk to people who are open to my pov.

My dear.........I am ony responding to your questions and posts directed to me.

If you do not want to read what I say in opposition to what you believe then do not post any more questions or comments to me!!!!

It is just that simple.

 

[Major1]

Raphael means, 'God Heals'. It was by God that the Angel was able to churn the waters making them miraculous.



They were. Christ in his person is our salvation. He had a mother and father toward whom he was obedient:

And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them. But His mother kept all these things in her heart. Lk 2:51

Not only that but, Mary carried him for nine months protecting him in her womb. Joseph protected him from the government:

After they were gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Get up! Take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you. For Herod is about to search for the child to kill him. Matt 2:13

Joseph provided a home and a name for him:
When the eight days were completed for his circumcision, he was named Jesus—the name given by the angel before he was conceived. Luke 2:21



The Bible. Joseph and Mary were responsible for our salvation as the very real earthly parents of Jesus.

WRONG.....WRONG and more WRONG!

Raphael IS NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE!!!

You are doing nothing but posting Catholic teachings and none of it is found in the Bible.

Acts 4:12.........
"Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6.......
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

There is nowhere in scripture that says we should pray to, or through Mary or that she has anything whatsoever to do with the salvation of men. Rather, scripture says in 1 Tim. 2:5......
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus…”

You either believe that or you reject it!!!!!!!

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

@Major1
I can't talk to you anymore, you seem to be throwing a hissy fit. This is my thread, I'm not sure it's right for you to tell me to ignore you, rather I think you should be the one to leave if you cannot respect my pov. So please leave, otherwise I will report you. Thanks.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

To everyone else:

The Lord of Spirits and Head of Days are found in the Protestant Bible in the phrases, Ancient of Days and God above all gods.

 

[Major1]

@Major1
I can't talk to you anymore, you seem to be throwing a hissy fit. This is my thread, I'm not sure it's right for you to tell me to ignore you, rather I think you should be the one to leave if you cannot respect my pov. So please leave, otherwise I will report you. Thanks.

Please report me!

Make sure that you tell the mods that the reason why you are doing so is that I do not agree with your POV.

Make sure that you tell them that I was civil to you, and NEVER made a personal comment in any way to you.

And make sure you tell them that when I said that that maybe you should not post comment to me was because YOU were angry at being disagreed with on you POV and I did not want you to be distressed at anything I said that you did not agree with.

Thanks for the conversation and maybe over time something will help your understanding.

 

[concretecamper]

IF you have not fully accepted Him then you are not saved

of course fully means agreeing with your interpretation of the bible. The effects of SS at it's finest.

 

[jamiec]

Is there an example from Scripture of a person on earth invoking a person in heaven?

I have tried to research this question online, even purchases a few books. I have read some of the threads here. But, the essential question is never answered. Where in 6000 yrs of recorded Biblical history (via the Scriptures) is invocation not intercession addressed.

Granted are:
1) That those in heaven pray for those on earth.
2) That those in heaven are alive
3) That those in heaven are aware of our particulars.

Thanks.

The end of Acts 7 comes to mind. And the similar passage in chapter 9.

These are, of course, both visions of the glorified Christ. But I don’t think that makes any difference of principle.

 

[Major1]

The end of Acts 7 comes to mind. And the similar passage in chapter 9.

These are, of course, both visions of the glorified Christ. But I don’t think that makes any difference of principle.

The idea that people are looking down from heaven to see what we’re doing is common in popular culture. But, as much as we might like the notion that we’re being watched by our departed loved ones, that’s not what the Bible teaches us.

That idea is what WE want to believe!

People in heaven are likely preoccupied with other things such as worshiping God and enjoying the glories of heaven.

 

[narnia59]

The idea that people are looking down from heaven to see what we’re doing is common in popular culture. But, as much as we might like the notion that we’re being watched by our departed loved ones, that’s not what the Bible teaches us.

That idea is what WE want to believe!

People in heaven are likely preoccupied with other things such as worshiping God and enjoying the glories of heaven.

"likely"?

Your position would mean that we cease to love and care for those who remain on earth after we're in heaven. Just up there having a good time, oblivious to the suffering on earth, being focused on ourselves and our reward.

That would also mean that our union with Christ is not perfected, since he most certainly isn't just "enjoying the glories of heaven" oblivious to us.

I guess Rachel missed the memo that she wasn't supposed to care that the Jews were being exiled from the Promised Land.

 

[prodromos]

"likely"?

Your position would mean that we cease to love and care for those who remain on earth after we're in heaven. Just up there having a good time, oblivious to the suffering on earth, being focused on ourselves and our reward.

That would also mean that our union with Christ is not perfected, since he most certainly isn't just "enjoying the glories of heaven" oblivious to us.

I guess Rachel missed the memo that she wasn't supposed to care that the Jews were being exiled from the Promised Land.

If one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers. If one part of the body rejoices, the whole body rejoices.

 

[Major1]

"likely"?

Your position would mean that we cease to love and care for those who remain on earth after we're in heaven. Just up there having a good time, oblivious to the suffering on earth, being focused on ourselves and our reward.

That would also mean that our union with Christ is not perfected, since he most certainly isn't just "enjoying the glories of heaven" oblivious to us.

I guess Rachel missed the memo that she wasn't supposed to care that the Jews were being exiled from the Promised Land.

Psalm 88:10-12; Ecclesiastes 9:10; and, Isaiah 63:16 support that souls are not aware of what happens on earth.

If a soul in heaven knew about their childs pain and suffering on earth.....would they not then be worried, and hurt and then even cry?????

But the Bible says that there will NO tears in heaven.

 

[concretecamper]

If a soul in heaven knew about their childs pain and suffering on earth.....would they not then be worried, and hurt and then even cry?????

are you an expert on Heaven too?

 

[narnia59]

Psalm 88:10-12; Ecclesiastes 9:10; and, Isaiah 63:16 support that souls are not aware of what happens on earth.

If a soul in heaven knew about their childs pain and suffering on earth.....would they not then be worried, and hurt and then even cry?????

But the Bible says that there will NO tears in heaven.

Psalm 88:10-12 -- "Dost thou work wonders for the dead?
Do the shades rise up to praise thee?Selah
11 Is thy steadfast love declared in the grave,
or thy faithfulness in Abaddon?"

So, if we take that to be referring to those who have died in Christ, then we would have to conclude those who are in heaven no longer praise or love God or are faithful to him. That's the case you want to make?

Ecclesiastes 9:10 is referring to Sheol which is where the OT saints awaited for Christ. It's not heaven.

Isaiah 63:16 For thou art our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
and Israel does not acknowledge us;
thou, O Lord, art our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is thy name.

Your interpretation of this passage is contradicted by the truth that Jesus said that Abraham was aware of the incarnation of Christ, and that Abraham also knew about Moses and the prophets. It is also prior to the resurrection of Christ, which changes EVERYTHING.

Your idea of heaven seems to be that Christ hides the truth from people so they won't have to worry about it. Do you have children? I do? The idea that Christ would keep me from knowing about their pain and suffering so I could experience a happiness rooted in falsehood is not my idea of heaven. As quoted by another poster, within the body of Christ if one parts suffers, we all suffer.

The idea that there are no tears in heaven is oft professed but it's not Scriptural. What is promised to us is that at the end of time, God will wipe away every tear. There is no Scripture that teaches there are no tears in heaven. But by all means, keep repeating that Scriptural falsehood.