A solid example from Scripture please.

[Major1]

Psalm 88:10-12 -- "Dost thou work wonders for the dead?
Do the shades rise up to praise thee?Selah
11 Is thy steadfast love declared in the grave,
or thy faithfulness in Abaddon?"

So, if we take that to be referring to those who have died in Christ, then we would have to conclude those who are in heaven no longer praise or love God or are faithful to him. That's the case you want to make?

Ecclesiastes 9:10 is referring to Sheol which is where the OT saints awaited for Christ. It's not heaven.

Isaiah 63:16 For thou art our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
and Israel does not acknowledge us;
thou, O Lord, art our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is thy name.

Your interpretation of this passage is contradicted by the truth that Jesus said that Abraham was aware of the incarnation of Christ, and that Abraham also knew about Moses and the prophets. It is also prior to the resurrection of Christ, which changes EVERYTHING.

Your idea of heaven seems to be that Christ hides the truth from people so they won't have to worry about it. Do you have children? I do? The idea that Christ would keep me from knowing about their pain and suffering so I could experience a happiness rooted in falsehood is not my idea of heaven. As quoted by another poster, within the body of Christ if one parts suffers, we all suffer.

The idea that there are no tears in heaven is oft professed but it's not Scriptural. What is promised to us is that at the end of time, God will wipe away every tear. There is no Scripture that teaches there are no tears in heaven. But by all means, keep repeating that Scriptural falsehood.

NOPE!

You are simply cherry picking Scriptures to force them into saying what you have been taught.

Read the BOOK!!!!

You said...........
"The idea that there are no tears in heaven is oft professed but it's not Scriptural."

But the Bible says ...........
Revelation 21:4
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Rev. 21:20.........
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, "

READ THE BOOK, do the study and THEN get back to me if you want to.

 

[narnia59]

NOPE!

You are simply cherry picking Scriptures to force them into saying what you have been taught.

Read the BOOK!!!!

You said...........
"The idea that there are no tears in heaven is oft professed but it's not Scriptural."

But the Bible says ...........
Revelation 21:4
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Rev. 21:20.........
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, "

READ THE BOOK, do the study and THEN get back to me if you want to.

I already noted the verse you cite. Revelation 21:4 indeed says that God will wipe away every tear – at the very end of time. Read the passage in context:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

So indeed we can agree that when the first heaven and first earth have passed away, God will wipe away every tear. Please explain how that applies to those in heaven now?

Your “proof” that the Bible teaches there are no tears in heaven as a few Old Testament passages that are about Sheol (not heaven) and one that applies to the new heaven and the new earth (not heaven now).

Cherry-pick – “choose and take only (the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc.) from what is available”

Thank you for a classic example of “cherry-pick.”

 

[Major1]

I already noted the verse you cite. Revelation 21:4 indeed says that God will wipe away every tear – at the very end of time. Read the passage in context:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

So indeed we can agree that when the first heaven and first earth have passed away, God will wipe away every tear. Please explain how that applies to those in heaven now?

Your “proof” that the Bible teaches there are no tears in heaven as a few Old Testament passages that are about Sheol (not heaven) and one that applies to the new heaven and the new earth (not heaven now).

Cherry-pick – “choose and take only (the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc.) from what is available”

Thank you for a classic example of “cherry-pick.”

So then by your "LOGIC" people in heaven today cry tears!

Now then.....show me the Bible Scriptures that support your opinion and our conversation will be over.

 

[Major1]

I already noted the verse you cite. Revelation 21:4 indeed says that God will wipe away every tear – at the very end of time. Read the passage in context:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

So indeed we can agree that when the first heaven and first earth have passed away, God will wipe away every tear. Please explain how that applies to those in heaven now?

Your “proof” that the Bible teaches there are no tears in heaven as a few Old Testament passages that are about Sheol (not heaven) and one that applies to the new heaven and the new earth (not heaven now).

Cherry-pick – “choose and take only (the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc.) from what is available”

Thank you for a classic example of “cherry-pick.”

So......the souls in heaven NOW must waint until AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ to experience the peace of heaven.

THAT is what you are saying.

That is perplexing to me. Jesus speaks of the rejoicing that takes place in heaven when one sinner repents. The Bible says that, even now, those who believe in Jesus Christ “are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy” —if our earthly lives are so characterized by joy, what must heaven be like? Surely, heaven will be a much more joyful place but you are saying that that will not happen untill after the 1000 Year rule.

I am not buying that.

Isaiah 25:8 says......
“He will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken” and it does not contain one single word about after the 1000 year rule of Messiah..

Now what do you base that on????

 

[narnia59]

So......the souls in heaven NOW must waint until AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ to experience the peace of heaven.

THAT is what you are saying.

That is perplexing to me. Jesus speaks of the rejoicing that takes place in heaven when one sinner repents. The Bible says that, even now, those who believe in Jesus Christ “are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy” —if our earthly lives are so characterized by joy, what must heaven be like? Surely, heaven will be a much more joyful place but you are saying that that will not happen untill after the 1000 Year rule.

I am not buying that.

Isaiah 25:8 says......
“He will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken” and it does not contain one single word about after the 1000 year rule of Messiah..

Now what do you base that on????

It seems to me to be pretty clear that Isaiah 25:8 is a prophecy that is fullfilled by Revelation 21:4 -- the wiping away of every tear at the end of time.

How can heaven rejoice when a sinner repents if they weren't aware that person was sinning in the first place? And wouldn't that sin make them sorrowful?

We actually know very little about heaven from Scripture. Most of what we think we know of heaven has come from the culture, not Scripture.

• We know that there are great wonders we really can’t imagine (1 Corinthians 2:9)
• We will indeed rest from our labors, but we will also still be in the service of God (Revelation 7:15)
• The joy of knowing you have completed the race God set before us must be incomparable (Hebrews 12:1)
• There is certainly an absence of physical suffering as we glorify God in spirit and await the resurrection of our physical bodies

Yet Christ is in heaven, and we know he feels it so very personally when his body earth suffers that it is no different than his own suffering. Acts 9:4-5 “And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' And he said, 'Who are you, Lord?' And he said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;'"

The question then becomes, how united do you believe those in heaven are to Christ? If he experiences the suffering of his body on earth, why would they not share that with him? 1 Corinthians 12:26 -- “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together."

We also need to remember that Jesus Christ is “the TRUTH” (John 14:6). Above all, heaven cannot be a place where the Truth is hidden from people so they can enjoy happiness based on a lie.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Is there an example from Scripture of a person on earth invoking a person in heaven?

Didn't someone talk to the prophet Samuel? For advice or something??

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Didn't someone talk to the prophet Samuel? For advice or something??

Yes, but it was through a medium and Samuel wasn't happy to be woken up.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Yes, but it was through a medium and Samuel wasn't happy to be woken up.

I'm assuming that isn't what you meant by "...a person on earth invoking a person in heaven?"

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I'm assuming that isn't what you meant by "...a person on earth invoking a person in heaven?"

Right.

 

[Major1]

It seems to me to be pretty clear that Isaiah 25:8 is a prophecy that is fullfilled by Revelation 21:4 -- the wiping away of every tear at the end of time.

How can heaven rejoice when a sinner repents if they weren't aware that person was sinning in the first place? And wouldn't that sin make them sorrowful?

We actually know very little about heaven from Scripture. Most of what we think we know of heaven has come from the culture, not Scripture.

• We know that there are great wonders we really can’t imagine (1 Corinthians 2:9)
• We will indeed rest from our labors, but we will also still be in the service of God (Revelation 7:15)
• The joy of knowing you have completed the race God set before us must be incomparable (Hebrews 12:1)
• There is certainly an absence of physical suffering as we glorify God in spirit and await the resurrection of our physical bodies

Yet Christ is in heaven, and we know he feels it so very personally when his body earth suffers that it is no different than his own suffering. Acts 9:4-5 “And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' And he said, 'Who are you, Lord?' And he said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;'"

The question then becomes, how united do you believe those in heaven are to Christ? If he experiences the suffering of his body on earth, why would they not share that with him? 1 Corinthians 12:26 -- “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together."

We also need to remember that Jesus Christ is “the TRUTH” (John 14:6). Above all, heaven cannot be a place where the Truth is hidden from people so they can enjoy happiness based on a lie.

You said..........
Isaiah 25:8 is a prophecy that is fullfilled by Revelation 21:4 -- the wiping away of every tear at the end of time.

AGREED!

Now, where in the Scriptures do we find that the souls in heaven NOW shed tears for those alive on the earth.

You are free to believe anything you want to. So am I!!!!
If YOU want to believe that YOU will cry and mourn over those left here on the earth while YOU are in heaven...PLEASE go right ahead and think that. I DO NOT !!!!!

We know that people in heaven have lots of feelings—all good ones. We're told of banquets, feasts and singing. People will laugh there (Luke 6:21).

Will we cry in heaven? The Bible says, "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes ; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying or pain" (Revelation 21:4). These are the tears of suffering over sin and death, the tears of oppressed people, the cries of the poor, the widow, the orphaned, the unborn and the persecuted.

Such crying will be no more.

 

[narnia59]

You said..........
Isaiah 25:8 is a prophecy that is fullfilled by Revelation 21:4 -- the wiping away of every tear at the end of time.

AGREED!

Now, where in the Scriptures do we find that the souls in heaven NOW shed tears for those alive on the earth.

You are free to believe anything you want to. So am I!!!!
If YOU want to believe that YOU will cry and mourn over those left here on the earth while YOU are in heaven...PLEASE go right ahead and think that. I DO NOT !!!!!

We know that people in heaven have lots of feelings—all good ones. We're told of banquets, feasts and singing. People will laugh there (Luke 6:21).

Will we cry in heaven? The Bible says, "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes ; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying or pain" (Revelation 21:4). These are the tears of suffering over sin and death, the tears of oppressed people, the cries of the poor, the widow, the orphaned, the unborn and the persecuted.

Such crying will be no more.

As you say, we are free to believe what we want. That belief will have nothing to do what is ultimate truth however.

And at its core, this is about TRUTH. Christ is the TRUTH. And to profess that he's going to lie to you to make you happy is contradictory to everything about who Jesus Christ is.