A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

[renniks]

Sex chromosomes and sex organs don't always align. Which are you proposing to go with? How will you determine the sex of the person in question, whichever you choose?

Innies use the woman's restroom. Outties use the men's restroom. End of story.

 

[Strathos]

Wow, are you really saying that someone who claims to be trans is just as delusional as someone who claims to be a god?

If you can't prove or disprove it, what's the difference?

 

[Kylie]

If you can't prove or disprove it, what's the difference?

So you think that taking people's word for it is the only evidence that people are actually trans?

For a start, that's ridiculous, do you think people are going to say they are trans just for the hell of it?

Secondly, there is evidence that their gender identity matches what they claim it is and does not align with their body. A study by the Swaab group examined the braisn of six trans women and they found that "the size of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc or BNSTc), a sexually dimorphic area in the forebrain known to be important to sexual behavior, was closer to that of cisgender women than cisgender men." SOURCE So it seems that a person's gender identity is influenced by brain structure. The way the brain functions is trans people also matches better with their gender identity that their genitals.

 

[Speedwell]

Innies use the woman's restroom. Outties use the men's restroom. End of story.

Plenty of women I know use the men's at large public events where the line for the women's is often very long.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I get the feeling that you aren't ever going to be convinced by what I say, so I'll leave you to it. If you feel that you need to disbelieve trans people because you can't comprehend what they are going through, then I pity you, but I'm done wasting my time.

What??? I'm just pointing out the lack of coherence in the claims you're making.

You're saying that gender can't be known without being experienced...so how do you know what you have an "innate sense" of isn't the male gender? How does a trans person know they're actually a gender that doesn't correspond to their physical body?

I know I'm the male gender because I have a man's body. I don't see how anyone could know what that is without actually having a male body. You're the one claiming that it's possible....and that's despite your admission that a much simpler, less complex, feeling like frostbite can only truly be known if you are physically frostbitten.

 

[Kylie]

Innies use the woman's restroom. Outties use the men's restroom. End of story.

You ever see a trans man? SOmeone born with a vagina but identifies as a man? Often, you'd never know they were born with a vagina. So we have people who look like men, but since they have vaginas, they have use the women's toilets. Tell me, how do we tell the difference between a trans man who just wants to pee and a man with a penis who wants to use this reasoning to perv on ladies going to the loo?

Or should we just tell trans people they aren't allowed to use public toilets at all?

 

[renniks]

You ever see a trans man? SOmeone born with a vagina but identifies as a man? Often, you'd never know they are men

Because they aren't. They are women.

 

[Kylie]

What??? I'm just pointing out the lack of coherence in the claims you're making.

You're saying that gender can't be known without being experienced...so how do you know what you have an "innate sense" of isn't the male gender? How does a trans person know they're actually a gender that doesn't correspond to their physical body?

I am saying that I have never experienced the dysphoria that trans people can get from the fact that their bodies and their gender identities don't match.

I know I'm the male gender because I have a man's body. I don't see how anyone could know what that is without actually having a male body. You're the one claiming that it's possible....and that's despite your admission that a much simpler, less complex, feeling like frostbite can only truly be known if you are physically frostbitten.

So if we had the technology to do brain transplants, and your brain was placed into a body with XX chromosomes and a vagina, would you start thinking of yourself as a woman? Would you become sexually attracted to me?

 

[Kylie]

Because they aren't. They are women.

Apologies, I worded things badly in my previous post, I've corrected it to say that you'd never know they were born with a vagina. See my previous post. Does that person look like they belong in the women's toilets?

 

[Strathos]

So you think that taking people's word for it is the only evidence that people are actually trans?

For a start, that's ridiculous, do you think people are going to say they are trans just for the hell of it?

Stranger things have happened.

Secondly, there is evidence that their gender identity matches what they claim it is and does not align with their body. A study by the Swaab group examined the braisn of six trans women and they found that "the size of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc or BNSTc), a sexually dimorphic area in the forebrain known to be important to sexual behavior, was closer to that of cisgender women than cisgender men." SOURCE So it seems that a person's gender identity is influenced by brain structure. The way the brain functions is trans people also matches better with their gender identity that their genitals.

What about trans people who don't have this physical property in their brains? And how does that explain the 'gender-fluid' people? Are their brains constantly changing shape?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

When I am home or using a public restroom, the door is shut and there is no one in there with me. What is so hard about that?

 

[Strathos]

When I am home or using a public restroom, the door is shut and there is no one in there with me. What is so hard about that?

I do think that making public restrooms co-ed/gender neutral wouldn't really be a big deal. It would save space and money, too.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I do think that making public restrooms co-ed/gender neutral wouldn't really be a big deal. It would save space and money, too.

I worked at a place like that, no urinals, all stalls, and the only time you saw anyone was washing their hands.

 

[Kylie]

Stranger things have happened.

Yes, I'm sure 1.3 million adults in the USA are saying they are trans just for laughs...

What about trans people who don't have this physical property in their brains? And how does that explain the 'gender-fluid' people? Are their brains constantly changing shape?

Perhaps the brains of gender fluid people are in between the two. My point is that you can't dismiss it as having no evidence when there is evidence.

 

[Strathos]

Yes, I'm sure 1.3 million adults in the USA are saying they are trans just for laughs...

I never said or implied that.

Perhaps the brains of gender fluid people are in between the two. My point is that you can't dismiss it as having no evidence when there is evidence.

The evidence is sketchy and hardly conclusive.

 

[Kylie]

I never said or implied that.

Kylie: do you think people are going to say they are trans just for the hell of it?

Strathos: Stranger things have happened.

Kylie: Yes, I'm sure 1.3 million adults in the USA are saying they are trans just for laughs...

The implication seems strong.

The evidence is sketchy and hardly conclusive.

I never said it was rock solid, but it shows the possibility at the least.

In any case, if someone asks you to address them as a particular gender, it seems a bit rude to say no.

 

[Strathos]

Kylie: do you think people are going to say they are trans just for the hell of it?

Strathos: Stranger things have happened.

Kylie: Yes, I'm sure 1.3 million adults in the USA are saying they are trans just for laughs...

The implication seems strong.

Hint: It's the '1.3 million' part you read into my words.

I never said it was rock solid, but it shows the possibility at the least.

Lots of things are possible.

In any case, if someone asks you to address them as a particular gender, it seems a bit rude to say no.

I generally do, unless they ask me to call them something ridiculous.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You ever see a trans man? SOmeone born with a vagina but identifies as a man? Often, you'd never know they were born with a vagina. So we have people who look like men, but since they have vaginas, they have use the women's toilets. Tell me, how do we tell the difference between a trans man who just wants to pee and a man with a penis who wants to use this reasoning to perv on ladies going to the loo?

View attachment 267193

Or should we just tell trans people they aren't allowed to use public toilets at all?

This almost sounds like you believe secondary sex characteristics are important to the issue of who belongs in which restroom.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I am saying that I have never experienced the dysphoria that trans people can get from the fact that their bodies and their gender identities don't match.

Well you said a lot more than that...

Despite linking to a wiki page that contends that gender identity isn't developed until at least age 3...and the prevailing theories of its creation being a result of physiology, social norms and cues, or both....you insisted that it should be viewed as an "innate sense".

Then you claimed that you cannot, as a female, know what it's like to feel like a man. That's because knowledge and experience regarding these things are inseparable...like knowing what frostbite feels like.

This of course, begs the question of how someone can possibly be female in a male body or vice versa. How would they know? Also, if gender identity isn't directly tied to physiology and social norms....then why does the treatment of gender dysphoria involve transitioning to a different physiology or social norms (like gendered pronouns)?

So if we had the technology to do brain transplants, and your brain was placed into a body with XX chromosomes and a vagina, would you start thinking of yourself as a woman?

I would think so...given enough time or some sci-fi memory erasure.

Would you become sexually attracted to me?

Become?? Oh Kylie....it's too late for that lol.

Seriously though, this is an odd question since I have to assume you understand gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing.

 

[Ken-1122]

So you think that it is wrong to address people they way they ask you to?

If a delusional person with mental issues request that I address them in an absurd way, I will not comply with their delusions.

Because you, apparently, are the arbiter of what is reasonable or not.

Isn't everybody the arbiter of what they find reasonable? Aren't you? Or do you only find reasonable what other people tell you is reasonable. I would hope you are thinking for yourself here.

Ah, so you are stopping people from identifying the way they wish in order to HELP them! Oh, they should be thanking you!

I think you've got it backwards. I am not stopping anybody from doing anything. I am not trying to control their behavior, they are trying to control mine.