A reflection on democracy and the common good.

[Danielwright2311]

What was your point in posting that?

To show how more tolerant we are? as we are not tolerant at all.

 

[Danielwright2311]

What an idealized historically illiterate view.

I would expect a atheist to disagree with me with no proof or evidence, no offence.

 

[Desk trauma]

I would expect a atheist to disagree with me with no proof or evidence, no offence.

Proof of violence being on the decline, here and here. And I recommend Pinkers books on the subject.

 

[Desk trauma]

To show how more tolerant we are? as we are not tolerant at all.

Conflict still exiting does not negate it being less frequent and damaging than it was in the past. As shocking as it may sound if you look at the data this is likely the most peaceful time on record.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Conflict still exiting does not negate it being less frequent and damaging than it was in the past.

Lets not spam this woman's thread for your debate on how things are worse.

 

[Desk trauma]

Lets not spam this woman's thread for your debate on how things are worse.

I’m sorry you’re unable to substantiate your narrative.

 

[FireDragon76]

By Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury (and also, by dint of that role, also formerly a member of England's House of Lords, its upper house of Parliament).

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

I really think this is not a social problem so much as a political one . Certain bad actors in the world are determined to undermine liberal democracies and responsible government and have discovered new resources to do so, using our own technologies and insecurities against us.

But a few wise words from the Bard might help innoculate us, anyways.

The overwhelming message I get from Mr. Williams is "do things my way or you're wrong".

I really don't get that at all from him. He's much less authoritarian and more thoughtful than that.

 

[VCR-2000]

A hundred years ago, WWI had just ended and there were ongoing conflicts in multiple places as a direct consequence of the worst war that had occurred in human history at that point. Turkish war of Independance, Russian Civil War, the Uprising in India, Warlords fighting in China, etc.

Also the Spanish Flu Epidemic.

 

[zephcom]

By Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury (and also, by dint of that role, also formerly a member of England's House of Lords, its upper house of Parliament).

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

The article is a good read as far as it goes. But I think the issues plaguing the world today go beyond what was the norm just a few decades ago.

On the personal level, people of a wide range of political and religious persuasions are able to work together for the common good. But when things start getting onto a national or global arena we seem to not be able to apply the same tolerances we grant to our friends who hold different beliefs from us.

The entire planet will live or die based on the outcome of the global warming issue. However, as a species, we are completely unable to make needed changes for the common good of planet. As Pogo said a long time ago "We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us". And yet we are functionally unable to do the things necessary to save ourselves, our children and our grand-children.

Instead we just argue among ourselves about things which are of no consequence like abortion, same sex marriage, who we can bake a cake for, or whether it is okay to have an ignorant narcissist as our leader or not.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I really think this is not a social problem so much as a political one . Certain bad actors in the world are determined to undermine liberal democracies and responsible government and have discovered new resources to do so, using our own technologies and insecurities against us.

A good point that really needs to be reminded over and over again.

 

[Norbert L]

By Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury (and also, by dint of that role, also formerly a member of England's House of Lords, its upper house of Parliament).

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

The common good is most visible when there is a clear adversary from the outside. Considering the mostly friendly nature of westernized governments within the EU, it's much harder to gather a majority coalition that can be perceived as the common good.

From my view Nigel Farage has always pointed out the problem of what this common good should look like. Should the people of a nation expect un-elected bureaucrats to be the ones that write down the legislation and then have an elected body rubber stamp those wishes? For some people it's like having their laws selectively filtered by a group of people like the Archbishop of Canterbury in a life long role while the general public has no way of voting them out of office.

For me here in Canada, the EU seems akin to allowing our life long parliamentary members of the Canadian Senate turn into little kings and queens, if we let them be the major arbiters of what turns into law.

So I believe the common good is really a question about what format of government do the people want to have rule over them.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The common good is most visible when there is a clear adversary from the outside. Considering the mostly friendly nature of westernized governments within the EU, it's much harder to gather a majority coalition that can be perceived as the common good.

From my view Nigel Farage has always pointed out the problem of what this common good should look like. Should the people of a nation expect un-elected bureaucrats to be the ones that write down the legislation and then have an elected body rubber stamp those wishes? For some people it's like having their laws selectively filtered by a group of people like the Archbishop of Canterbury in a life long role while the general public has no way of voting them out of office.

For me here in Canada, the EU seems akin to allowing our life long parliamentary members of the Canadian Senate turn into little kings and queens, if we let them be the major arbiters of what turns into law.

So I believe the common good is really a question about what format of government do the people want to have rule over them.

Farage lecturing about democracy? Nigel Farage colluded with Putin's undemocratic regime to undermine European liberal democracy, freedom and the very values the European Union stands for: respect for human dignity and human rights, freedom, democracy, equality and the rule of law. The very values that Putin opposes because those values are bad news for totalitarians.

I find Farage's pretense of caring about democracy massively ironic. Don't you? Canadians tend to be smarter than to fall for Kremlin's disinformation and outright propaganda. If Farage and his Russian pal Vladimir Vladimirovich will have their way, it's goodbye European democracy, goodbye free and fair elections, and goodbye elected representatives. In the illiberal world of the likes of Farage, Putin, and Erdoğan, MPs and MEPs will become nothing but stampers of the Dear Leader's orders.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It's not really clear what Eurocrats mean when they talk about democracy, but whatever it is, it has nothing to do with the people governing themselves. Quite the opposite, in fact, it seems to involve governments favoring foreigners over their own citizens.

 

[HardHead]

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

I like the article but for me this idea of a common good in that society is tainted with its colonial past and the actions in those days against all sorts of people that were subject to that form of rule. The impact of this is not over and done with today by any means.

The democratic imagination mentioned in the article may be there in some internal sense of self-examination in the UK today (I don't know because I don't live there); however, for me its not clear that this notion of a general common good existed historically as a basic underpinning of a democratic British social order that should apply everywhere and to everyone in general.

The painful impact of this self-focused colonial ethos is clearly felt by people personally and directly even today in Canada. This is so much the case that this is a topic of discussions during Canadian elections today.

This is older news, to be sure, but here it's an example were the Anglican church is taking a clear leadership role in attempting to restore broken relationships from the colonial past, up to today, at least here in Canada.

Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada - Wikipedia

Truth and Reconciliation - The Anglican Church of Canada

Anglican dioceses, parishes engage TRC Calls to Action – Anglican Journal

On this topic the Niagara Region Anglican Bishop recommended this book to us when I was attending Anglican services regularly. This was an important read for me, personally.

https://www.cbc.ca/books/the-reason-you-walk-1.4011915

In this regard, the Anglicans seem to be the most open relative to discussing the church's collective negative and destructive actions of the past, at least from what I have been able to see.

This is partly what attracts me to modern Anglicanism in general: its open and honest for the most part and it is clearly dealing with the baggage of its past.

I am not sure if the people in Canterbury are part of the healing process of the Canadian TRC but times are certainly changing, and thankfully so. For Canadians, this is a slow process and it is in the mindset of many here, Anglican or not. This reconciliation is needed for democracy to flourish.

I wish you all the best. Peace be with you.

 

[zephcom]

By Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury (and also, by dint of that role, also formerly a member of England's House of Lords, its upper house of Parliament).

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

It isn't just Britain which has issues with the common good and how politics addresses that issue. Perhaps it is because we have so very many people alive at one time on the planet that politics is unable to see the need for addressing the common good.

There is a mass extinction event expected in the next hundred or so years. When that event is finished, if there is any humans left (and I'm assuming there will be) people may well realize once again that each of us are surviving on the planet only through cooperation with each other rather than in competition with each other.

 

[HardHead]

people may well realize once again that each of us are surviving on the planet only through cooperation with each other rather than in competition with each other.

This is very true. Cooperation is clearly needed instead of an us vs. them mentality because the big problems are literally global in scope. May God have mercy on us all.

 

[Francis Drake]

There are more wars now then ever, thousands of wars all over the world, that's no less violet.

That list is completely silly.
The only reason you can make a list like that is because of the internet and communications. We now know on the same day when some distant tribal group massacres its neighbour.

Wars large and small have been going on all over the world for thousands or years without Reuters or CNN sending cameramen to film it.
History books only talk about the major conflicts, but often those major conflicts consist of hundreds of other small battles.

Remember the Hundred Years War?

 

[Ophiolite]

By Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury (and also, by dint of that role, also formerly a member of England's House of Lords, its upper house of Parliament).

It seemed to me to be saying something important about how we think about our politics, and I thought it was worth sharing here: Brexit shows Britain is no longer able to imagine a “common good”

I thought the article was incisive, insightful and even inspiring. It seems to support my own thinking on how the Brexit referendum result should have been handled. (So, naturally, I like it. )

Before the referendum I hoped for the following:

If the vote was to remain I wished government and Parliament to determine what were the critical concerns of those wishing to leave and seek, as far as possible, to address those concerns. For example, I feel too much political power rests with unelected officials and too little with the European Parliament. If we were to remain I would hope that issue would be tackled.

If the vote was to leave, again government and Parliament would need to determine what concerns this created for those favouring remain and seek ways of minimising them. This, for example, could include seeking to retain as many of the perceived benefits of membership while still being firmly outside the union.

In practice there has been little regard from either side for the opposing view. As a Remain voter I have grown weary of being told that is the will of the people that we leave, with never (to my recollection) a note that it is the will of slightly more than half the people that we leave, but slightly less than half would like to Remain. I am not asking that the result should be changed to suit the minority. I am just asking that the minority view be acknowledged and the concerns of the Remainers be addressed as far as practical. The former Archbishop appears to be expressing regret that such an approach is not happening.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Nigel Farage and "common good": election interference by foreign anti-democracy agents = "common good."

Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

 

[Francis Drake]

Nigel Farage and "common good": election interference by foreign anti-democracy agents = "common good."

Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

The accusation of "Russian interference" is just more disinformation thrown at the people to deflect from the real attacks on democracy and freedom of speech coming from the EU elites.
“We will always vote against more power and spending by the EU,” said David Bull, a Brexit party MEP.

“We won’t take lessons in democracy from parties which have packed together in order to frustrate the Brexit vote. Stories of Russian interference have been exposed as baseless propaganda and scare stories used to shut down debate. As a party of free speech, we oppose shutting down debate.”
Anyone who falls for this stuff needs a reality check.