A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

[SheldonCooper]

Example, Q "who did you see shoot the the dead man in the street was it the white man or the black man? "A "The white man"

Is that racist?

Yes.

Q "What color car was he driving, the black one or the white one?" A "The white one"

Does that make white cars less desirable than the black?

No.

It's a descriptive term, and racism against blacks for instance (oops, was that racism? )

Yes.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes.



No.



Yes.

When you choose not to state your actual reason for a yes or no reply, i assume either you have none, or you want to end the debate.

 

[SheldonCooper]

When you choose not to state your actual reason for a yes or no reply, i assume either you have none, or you want to end the debate.

Or maybe I needed to hurry off the computer to conduct other business. Anyway, here's my exegesis..

race - a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.
racism - poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race; belief that some race of people are better than others.

I'll repeat Morgan Freeman's quote as well:

" You want to solve the issue of racism? I won't refer to you as a white man if you won't refer to me as a black man. "

Case and Point:

Psychologically speaking, mentioning a person's race at any time during these present times is quite sensitive. You could be referring a customer to your boss and say " Yes, the manager is the white guy over there with the bald head. " You ask the question of how is that racist? The definition clearly states that racism is treating a person poorly because of their race. Simply identifying a person's race in itself isn't racist, correct?

By definition, no. However, if everything was black and white in this world then we wouldn't have a need for a judicial system when someone is accused of breaking the law. So the matter at hand goes back to the Morgan Freeman's quote. It's not about whether stating someone's race in general conversation is racist or not. It's more so pointing out how to solve the issue and a huge part of that is getting into the practice of not even mentioning a person's race all together. So then...

Refer the customer to your boss by simply saying " Go see the gentleman over there with bald head and glasses. "

I'm being extreme in saying that " This post was racist " but in actuality it is, according to the definition. The African Americans feel inferior to the Caucasians in the congregation and feel as though they don't understand their struggles and because of that now see them as unworthy to worship with? That's very racist. Since when was a place of worship in this day and age segregated with racial wars?

To then say Donald Trump is the cause of it when millions of African Americans choose to ignore the reality of how Donald Trump has actually helped significant figures of color throughout his career before his presidency began.

I dare make the claim that African Americans are overusing the word racism and misusing it. All of these African American businesses, professional athletes and entertainers, authors, scientists and list goes on that are being supported by Caucasians have the audacity to now gripe and complain about racism in this country simply because we have a troll in the White House? ( pun intended )

I don't re-call stock piles of African Americans complaining about him being a racist or even a LGBT hater when he wasn't president yet were actually laughing and cheering him on. Why? Because during that time an African American by the name of Barack Obama was in office. Now that ship has sailed and we have the most infamous troll known to mankind in the Oval Office and suddenly he's racist and every other name derived from the spirit of bigotry? How come these African American " Black Lives Matter " crusaders never once protested outside of the Trump Tower? Or boycotted his show The Apprentice? Suddenly, race is an issue simply because now we have the most brutally honest President in American History?

I think it's time African Americans start thinking more logically and let the past be the past. Because the " white trash " and " trailer park trash " of the nation aren't really concerned about the benefits of being white. They don't see what the big fuss is about.

Try comparing what African Americans go through now to the Jews of Hitler's time and you tell me who really has the right to proclaim racism. I don't see any black people being thrown in concentration camps. Being slaughtered and piled up on top of each other. Even during slavery, African Americans were still allowed to live. So if people of color on this Forum want to make comparisons?

Compare your ancestors to the ancestors of the Jews and then complain about racism.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Oh yeah, don't forget about the Native Americans who were robbed and killed for this land we now call the United States of America. You want to complain about racism now? I would say Native Americans and Jews are the only ones who have a legitimate right to even speak on such a topic.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Something else I have a genuine issue with. African American's false sense of pride and empathy. I dare to believe that most of the African American's who complain or try to stand up for the Black Community on Forums or other forms of social media are not even heavily invested in the subject matter on a daily basis. They just want something to talk about when the topic is trending.

I'm not easily convinced that those who fit that racial category are here to open the eyes of white America. I honestly think it's just a rant session. A reason to say something " of value " to some how seem " important " cause quite frankly the possible reality is that such individuals have nothing else to talk about of great value or importance. So..

Another black person ( hypothetically speaking ) is on the news that has got gunned down by a Caucasian police officer and all hell breaks loose. Not even realizing the growing awareness of spiritual awareness via drug usage mainly at the hands of Marijuana.

Here's a simple solution. Do the right thing? You won't have to worry about the police. Because last I checked there were African American police officers as well, as well as Hispanics and a few Native Americans. It just so happens that the African American community are notorious for making bad decisions, promoting bad decision making to make money off of it, which influences African American youth to make bad decisions to then have to run into law enforcement. Probably high as a star and when it " all comes down " that police officer has to do the best he/she can to judge the situation the best he/she can and well, things happen.

Yes, some police officers have abused their authority to use force to apprehend a suspect but to simply pounce on that and stay on that for years and years is hypocritical, simply because African Americans do the same thing..

To their own race.

 

[redleghunter]

They are usually more extreme in that regard than the pastor, who will usually tend to be more moderate specifically because of his contact with other pastors in discussion of these issues...as the article about Gateway described. IOW, the pastor likely "gets out more" than the church members and partners.

Did Gateway's statement of beliefs reflect the political views of the pastor and/or elders?

My experience is there are many churches which do not publish their statement of beliefs nor their constitution as mine does.

However, I am glad you were able to find a non-political pastoral team and church. My church is too busy with ministry to get involved in politics. It may have something to do with our size. We are not small but a far cry from a megachurch and my pastor is paid a modest income for the local area.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Something else I have a genuine issue with. African American's false sense of pride and empathy. I dare to believe that most of the African American's who complain or try to stand up for the Black Community on Forums or other forms of social media are not even heavily invested in the subject matter on a daily basis. They just want something to talk about when the topic is trending.

I'm not easily convinced that those who fit that racial category are here to open the eyes of white America. I honestly think it's just a rant session. A reason to say something " of value " to some how seem " important " cause quite frankly the possible reality is that such individuals have nothing else to talk about of great value or importance. So..

Another black person ( hypothetically speaking ) is on the news that has got gunned down by a Caucasian police officer and all hell breaks loose. Not even realizing the growing awareness of spiritual awareness via drug usage mainly at the hands of Marijuana.

Here's a simple solution. Do the right thing? You won't have to worry about the police. Because last I checked there were African American police officers as well, as well as Hispanics and a few Native Americans. It just so happens that the African American community are notorious for making bad decisions, promoting bad decision making to make money off of it, which influences African American youth to make bad decisions to then have to run into law enforcement. Probably high as a star and when it " all comes down " that police officer has to do the best he/she can to judge the situation the best he/she can and well, things happen.

Yes, some police officers have abused their authority to use force to apprehend a suspect but to simply pounce on that and stay on that for years and years is hypocritical, simply because African Americans do the same thing..

To their own race.

"Just" do the right thing? Man o' man! Do you ever stop, Sheldon? Here's what I propose: that everyone keep paying their property taxes at the same rates at which they're already paying, BUT to then have those monies redirected across the board in more commensurate levels to schools in all neigborhoods, regardless of the statistical levels of income, or skin-tone, which might reside there respectively? How about that? Then, we might say that we "do" attempt to put our money where our mouth is, no matter how much we make, and that we can begin to stop referring to each other as this or that type of ethnicity.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I wonder how the politicians will like that? I wonder how "white" America will like that?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Or maybe I needed to hurry off the computer to conduct other business. Anyway, here's my exegesis..

race - a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.
racism - poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race; belief that some race of people are better than others.

I'll repeat Morgan Freeman's quote as well:

" You want to solve the issue of racism? I won't refer to you as a white man if you won't refer to me as a black man. "

Case and Point:

Psychologically speaking, mentioning a person's race at any time during these present times is quite sensitive. You could be referring a customer to your boss and say " Yes, the manager is the white guy over there with the bald head. " You ask the question of how is that racist? The definition clearly states that racism is treating a person poorly because of their race. Simply identifying a person's race in itself isn't racist, correct?

By definition, no. However, if everything was black and white in this world then we wouldn't have a need for a judicial system when someone is accused of breaking the law. So the matter at hand goes back to the Morgan Freeman's quote. It's not about whether stating someone's race in general conversation is racist or not. It's more so pointing out how to solve the issue and a huge part of that is getting into the practice of not even mentioning a person's race all together. So then...

Refer the customer to your boss by simply saying " Go see the gentleman over there with bald head and glasses. "

I'm being extreme in saying that " This post was racist " but in actuality it is, according to the definition. The African Americans feel inferior to the Caucasians in the congregation and feel as though they don't understand their struggles and because of that now see them as unworthy to worship with? That's very racist. Since when was a place of worship in this day and age segregated with racial wars?

To then say Donald Trump is the cause of it when millions of African Americans choose to ignore the reality of how Donald Trump has actually helped significant figures of color throughout his career before his presidency began.

I dare make the claim that African Americans are overusing the word racism and misusing it. All of these African American businesses, professional athletes and entertainers, authors, scientists and list goes on that are being supported by Caucasians have the audacity to now gripe and complain about racism in this country simply because we have a troll in the White House? ( pun intended )

I don't re-call stock piles of African Americans complaining about him being a racist or even a LGBT hater when he wasn't president yet were actually laughing and cheering him on. Why? Because during that time an African American by the name of Barack Obama was in office. Now that ship has sailed and we have the most infamous troll known to mankind in the Oval Office and suddenly he's racist and every other name derived from the spirit of bigotry? How come these African American " Black Lives Matter " crusaders never once protested outside of the Trump Tower? Or boycotted his show The Apprentice? Suddenly, race is an issue simply because now we have the most brutally honest President in American History?

I think it's time African Americans start thinking more logically and let the past be the past. Because the " white trash " and " trailer park trash " of the nation aren't really concerned about the benefits of being white. They don't see what the big fuss is about.

Try comparing what African Americans go through now to the Jews of Hitler's time and you tell me who really has the right to proclaim racism. I don't see any black people being thrown in concentration camps. Being slaughtered and piled up on top of each other. Even during slavery, African Americans were still allowed to live. So if people of color on this Forum want to make comparisons?

Compare your ancestors to the ancestors of the Jews and then complain about racism.

Since this is the actual disagreement, how was the OP's post racist again?

 

[SheldonCooper]

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I wonder how the politicians will like that? I wonder how "white" America will like that?

You should ask them.

 

[SheldonCooper]

how was the OP's post racist again?

You'll need to read through the entire thread.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You'll need to read through the entire thread.

Or, you were wrong, and it wasn't racist at all.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Or, you were wrong, and it wasn't racist at all.

A relative subjective opinion never puts a dent in this object.

 

[Kenny'sID]

A relative subjective opinion never puts a dent in this object.

That's ok we're all wrong on occasion.

 

[SheldonCooper]

That's ok we're all wrong on occasion.

Speak for yourself.

 

[RDKirk]

You'll need to read through the entire thread.

If the OP were racist, it should take reading only the OP to determine that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Speak for yourself.

 

[Dave-W]

Motown's heyday was in the 60s, though.

Very true!

 

[Dave-W]

Here's what I propose: that everyone keep paying their property taxes at the same rates at which they're already paying, BUT to then have those monies redirected across the board in more commensurate levels to schools in all neigborhoods, regardless of the statistical levels of income, or skin-tone, which might reside there respectively?

I wonder how the politicians will like that?

I witnessed that one first hand. the politicians cried FOUL!!! and it had little to do with race.

1980s Lansing MI. Neighboring East Lansing (home of Michigan State U) had much higher taxes and spent almost double per pupil in their school system as Lansing proper. They also had MSU profs as part time teachers in many classes. As a consequence, by highschool, the East Lansing's school system was an entire year ahead of Lansing's. EL 9th graders were in Lansing's 10th grade class work.FYI: Lansing was on par with the rest of the state. EL was way ahead of everyone.

Then the state stepped in to even things out and everyone in EL cried out LOUDLY that they were being unfairly targeted and their school system was being "dumbed down."

It had little to do with race or ethnicity as the EL student body was very diverse; MSU pulled students from all over the world and from every ethnicity and income level in the US. But rents were high and much of that was property tax to fund the schools.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I witnessed that one first hand. the politicians cried FOUL!!! and it had little to do with race.

1980s Lansing MI. Neighboring East Lansing (home of Michigan State U) had much higher taxes and spent almost double per pupil in their school system as Lansing proper. They also had MSU profs as part time teachers in many classes. As a consequence, by highschool, the East Lansing's school system was an entire year ahead of Lansing's. EL 9th graders were in Lansing's 10th grade class work.FYI: Lansing was on par with the rest of the state. EL was way ahead of everyone.

Then the state stepped in to even things out and everyone in EL cried out LOUDLY that they were being unfairly targeted and their school system was being "dumbed down."

It had little to do with race or ethnicity as the EL student body was very diverse; MSU pulled students from all over the world and from every ethnicity and income level in the US. But rents were high and much of that was property tax to fund the schools.

Oh, I'm sure a lot of people in the U.S. would cry "FOUL!" at such a proposal. Thanks for sharing your info. Interesting stuff.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Oh yeah, don't forget about the Native Americans who were robbed and killed for this land we now call the United States of America. You want to complain about racism now? I would say Native Americans and Jews are the only ones who have a legitimate right to even speak on such a topic.

Speaking as a Native American, I do appreciate your fervor in this thread, but I have to disagree that Black people don't have a right to complain about racism. If that's not what you were implying, then I apologize for misunderstanding what you wrote. And for it's worth, I don't think the OP is racist.