A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

mark kennedy

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Well, it is "obvious" to me that what I have in mind is going on instead.

(See how that works? If we don't "use our words" as we were taught in school, we really don't communicate much of anything to others.)
It wasn't all that complicated, there isn't a dimes worth of difference between black and white evangelicals. The disparity between their politics has to be something else.
 
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redleghunter

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That's true. But white evangelicals are the most likely to bring partisan politics into the pulpit.
Really?

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Willie T

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There is a factor in ANYONE getting shot by the police that is (I think) deliberately being ignored.

We white people have two elements of our own society that get whipped-up on and shot by police just as often as any black person. These are "Rednecks" and Entitled Rich Kids. Why? Because our punks have the same attitude as black punks. Both have a chip on their shoulders, and they both are deliberately obstinate and defiant when approached by authority. Neither are going to be "forced" to respect or be civil to ANYONE they don't want to. And all three groups go way out of their way to try and prove THEY are the ones in charge in any situation....... and no "pig" is going to tell them what to do.

Well, common sense should tell you that you are automatically making things a lot harder on yourself with those attitudes. Add to that, the refusal to drop a weapon with which you could instantly kill the arresting officer, and you are just "begging" to get yourself shot.

Neither Country Boys, Black Kids, nor Rich Kids ever encounter ANY problems during an arrest if they simply quietly and respectfully comply.... even if they don't like it. "Comply" means to do as you are told, when you are told to do it...... this includes not making snide remarks and giving sneers and curling your lips.

As in any situation in life.... ask for it, and you will probably get it... good or bad.
 
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redleghunter

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Yes. Do you want to do a little duel to see how many white evangelicals are on political record compared to black evangelicals?
I don't think such would be fruitful. You would have to weed through the entire liberation theology denominations. That's a study in itself as the gospel of those churches is liberation theology and not Christ. That movement knows no color, race or creed (apparently). It is more destructive to the Church at large than The Donald or any politician.
 
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WolfGate

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I don't really have a problem with churches involved in civic matters, even if it tends to be partisan. The Civil Rights movement started in the churches, I remember hearing MLK preaching in his home church early, preaching a sermon entitled 'Dogs in the Yard'. The idea was that if a rabid dog comes into the yard where your children play you have to take action. I heard it years ago on a vinyl LP at the library which is well before the advent of CDs.

Most white evangelicals are going to be living in rural communities who feel threatened by the liberal left. Most blacks will probably feel that the right has little regard for them or their problems so tend to veer hard left. I've done some work in doctrine and I know it can change from church to church but evangelicals are generally on the same page doctrinally. When the COGIC churches split with the Assemblies of God it had little to do with doctrine, it was right down racial lines. There was a side issue with the Apostolic (Jesus only) group but that was a doctrinal dispute between AOG and the oneness Pentecostals.

It is certainly interesting how religion can sometimes color political issues. The Catholics obviously have some political issues over abortion, I assume it effects how they vote. I'm just not entirely sure there is something in their theology that makes white evangelicals so right wing in their politics. It's got to be something cultural to have such a profound line of demarcation between white and black evangelicals in their political views.

You missed what I think was the key word in the post you replied to. "Partisan".

There is in my opinion no problem with pastors who allow theology to shape their view on political issues. That will span across parties depending on the issue and is not partisan. The problem is when their politics - and often desire to enjoy political influence (cue Franklin Graham among others) shape their theology. That is rampant and obvious in many evangelical churches.
 
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Kenny'sID

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" You want to solve the issue of racism? I'll stop referring to you as a white man if you stop referring to me as a black man. "

Morgan Freeman's one of my favorites, but he likely expected others to consider context, in that he has a point, but it doesn't mean every single time we distinguish the difference, it's a problem.

Example, Q "who did you see shoot the the dead man in the street was it the white man or the black man? "A "The white man"

Is that racist?

Q "What color car was he driving, the black one or the white one?" A "The white one"

Does that make white cars less desirable than the black?

It's a descriptive term, and racism against blacks for instance (oops, was that racism? :)) cannot even be discussed without that or some type of term to distinguish what/who they are talking about.
 
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mark kennedy

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You missed what I think was the key word in the post you replied to. "Partisan".

There is in my opinion no problem with pastors who allow theology to shape their view on political issues. That will span across parties depending on the issue and is not partisan. The problem is when their politics - and often desire to enjoy political influence (cue Franklin Graham among others) shape their theology. That is rampant and obvious in many evangelical churches.
I really don't see that although I'm well aware of the political views of white evangelicals. It doesn't seem theologically based.
 
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redleghunter

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You missed what I think was the key word in the post you replied to. "Partisan".

There is in my opinion no problem with pastors who allow theology to shape their view on political issues. That will span across parties depending on the issue and is not partisan. The problem is when their politics - and often desire to enjoy political influence (cue Franklin Graham among others) shape their theology. That is rampant and obvious in many evangelical churches.
A fair assessment. I think it important for church members/partners to look at their church constitution and statement of beliefs. I would hazard a guess most of these churches which expound on politics that such is not reflected in their statement of beliefs nor constitution. Which means the pastor in question should be subject to the church elders to explain why pulpit time is being used for politics.
 
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RDKirk

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I really don't see that although I'm well aware of the political views of white evangelicals. It doesn't seem theologically based.

No, it's not theologically based, it's based on traditional (that is, 1950s) American culture.

Black people in America don't regard the 1950s with any particular nostalgia.
 
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RDKirk

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A fair assessment. I think it important for church members/partners to look at their church constitution and statement of beliefs. I would hazard a guess most of these churches which expound on politics that such is not reflected in their statement of beliefs nor constitution. Which means the pastor in question should be subject to the church elders to explain why pulpit time is being used for politics.

They are usually more extreme in that regard than the pastor, who will usually tend to be more moderate specifically because of his contact with other pastors in discussion of these issues...as the article about Gateway described. IOW, the pastor likely "gets out more" than the church members and partners.
 
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mark kennedy

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No, it's not theologically based, it's based on traditional (that is, 1950s) American culture.

Black people in America don't regard the 1950s with any particular nostalgia.
Not unless they are big Motown fans.
 
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redleghunter

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I really don't see that although I'm well aware of the political views of white evangelicals. It doesn't seem theologically based.
It depends. When considering traditional marriage and viewing human life begins at conception and the moral value of life equal from conception to death, such theological and moral views shape a worldview.

Economics seems to be inconsistent on both sides of the coin. We do have Evangelicals who adhere to Social Darwinist economics on one side and Marxist liberation theology on the other. Both of the aforementioned are not present in the example of the loving NT church. I think the greatest divide is in this category.

The economy of the apostles is that we share what we have (except our spouses) and we work to provide for our families. Working and sharing with those in need---the widow, orphan and poor. That's the NT model and there are no nations that I know of today which espouses such in their practice.
 
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redleghunter

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No, it's not theologically based, it's based on traditional (that is, 1950s) American culture.
Traditional marriage goes back to Genesis 2:24 and protecting innocent blood was a from the beginning as well (Genesis 4). The 1950s tradition was a mixture of nostalgic Christian principles cherry picked and not expressed in action only in word. The 1950s were prosperous for some at the expense of others, which is not a NT church or Christian historic principle.

The 1950s is where we see the beginning of wealth accumulation (just after a long war and long economic depression) and the influence of the notion of Social Darwinism (the economic fittest survives and prospers). Which is not Christian in principle. The original 1960s protesters, the ones who protested in shirt and tie and were non-violent spoke out against the avarice of their parent's generation as killing the soul of society.


Don't get me wrong, God blesses some people with wealth, however, that wealth belongs to God as the giver of this common grace. Such wealth is to be dispensed in helping the Church spread the Gospel and bring physical aid to those in need. What we do with our time and money is very important to God and His Kingdom.

Black people in America don't regard the 1950s with any particular nostalgia.
I would think not. Another indictment of a society which claimed to be based on Christian ideals.

Many look to that time as a time of peace as well (other than the Russians getting the bomb). Tell that to family members who charged up Pork Chop Hill for the fourth time. It was the first time in our history where war was something far away and did not affect everyone at home like it did in WWII. We could have our wars and no economic consequences at home.
 
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