A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

[Kentonio]

“A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

In the last couple of decades, there had been signs, however modest, that eleven o’clock on Sunday morning might cease to be the most segregated hour in America.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/blacks-evangelical-churches.html

Fascinating article about the effects Trumps election has had on Black worshipers at white evangelical churches. Well worth a read.

 

[mark kennedy]

They talk about evangelicals supporting Trump but they leave one thing out of the equation, blacks have a very different agenda. As a life long Democrat and a died in the wool evangelical I share their fears.

 

[RDKirk]

“A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

In the last couple of decades, there had been signs, however modest, that eleven o’clock on Sunday morning might cease to be the most segregated hour in America.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/blacks-evangelical-churches.html

Fascinating article about the effects Trumps election has had on Black worshipers at white evangelical churches. Well worth a read.

Well, interestingly enough, my wife, daughter, and I had also attended Morris's Gateway in Dallas, and departed for a predominantly black church--the first predominantly black church we've joined in 30 years--for the same reason Mrs Pruitt left Gateway. Politics. Not theology, not even the issues of abortion and sexual orientation, but flat out partisan politics.

However, the discomfort started much earlier than Trump, while George W Bush was president. Their mantra then was Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2.

But that changed during Obama's presidency. They didn't want to be reminded of Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2. Hmmm.

But when Trump was elected...out trotted Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2 again.

It would have been a lot more palatable had evangelical pastors taken the stance of John Piper:

Today we will inaugurate a man to the presidency of the United States who is morally unqualified to be there. This is important to say just now because not to see it and feel it will add to the collapsing vision of leadership that enabled him to be nominated and elected.
....
The linking of the Christian church with the ruling political regime is not essential to the life and fruitfulness of Christian faith. On the contrary, such linking has more often proven to corrupt the essential spirit of Christ, who typically uses the weak things of the world to shame the strong (1 Corinthians 1:27), and whose life-saving weapons do not consist in media monopolies, commanding wealth, or civil laws.

Followers of Christ are not Americans first. Our first allegiance is to Jesus, and then to the God-inspired word of Scripture, the Bible. This is our charter, not the U.S. Constitution.

How to Live Under an Unqualified President

 

[Rion]

Never bring politics into the church. Our congregation prays for the president, no matter who it is. We prayed for Obama for eight years, and we'll pray for Trump however many he is in office. Outside of that, we don't mention it.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, interestingly enough, my wife, daughter, and I had also attended Morris's Gateway in Dallas, and departed for a predominantly black church--the first predominantly black church we've joined in 30 years--for the same reason Mrs Pruitt left Gateway. Politics. Not theology, not even the issues of abortion and sexual orientation, but flat out partisan politics.

However, the discomfort started much earlier than Trump, while George W Bush was president. Their mantra then was Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2.

But that changed during Obama's presidency. They didn't want to be reminded of Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2. Hmmm.

But when Trump was elected...out trotted Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2 again.

It would have been a lot more palatable had evangelical pastors taken the stance of John Piper:



How to Live Under an Unqualified President

Is Gateway considered a mega church?

Know of two local mega churches which loaded buses to register and then do the same on election day.

 

[RDKirk]

Is Gateway considered a mega church?

Know of two local mega churches which loaded buses to register and then do the same on election day.

Yes, Gateway is a megachurch.

 

[Babe Ruth]

naivity..

Naivity (?)..

Per your thread.. What is the issue with Black congregants leaving predominantly White churches (?)
It's a free country; people self-segregate all the time. So what..
Is the point of your thread, to selectively demonize, criticize White hospitality (?)
Peace.

 

[Kentonio]

Naivity (?)..

Oh gosh a typo? Someone call the internet police immediately!

Per your thread.. What is the issue with Black congregants leaving predominantly White churches (?)
It's a free country; people self-segregate all the time. So what..
Is the point of your thread, to selectively demonize, criticize White hospitality (?)
Peace.

Its an article about black people feeling that white evangelical congregations don't understand their problems, don't care about their problems, and are supportive of a man who causes them problems. I think your response about 'white hospitality' makes their case for them pretty well.

 

[mark kennedy]

Oh gosh a typo? Someone call the internet police immediately!



Its an article about black people feeling that white evangelical congregations don't understand their problems, don't care about their problems, and are supportive of a man who causes them problems. I think your response about 'white hospitality' makes their case for them pretty well.

I saw an interesting statistic, about 25% of blacks are evangelical and yet very rarely support Trump. I tend to wonder if being evangelical has much to do with it at all. There has to be a better demographic, there can't be a dimes worth of difference between what black and white evangelicals believe religiously.

 

[Kentonio]

I saw an interesting statistic, about 25% of blacks are evangelical and yet very rarely support Trump. I tend to wonder if being evangelical has much to do with it at all. There has to be a better demographic, there can't be a dimes worth of difference between what black and white evangelicals believe religiously.

This is purely supposition on my part, but I suspect it has more to do with detachment from immediate issues. If you are strongly pro-life for instance, then electing a man you don't think is moral but who can help you achieve a more pro-life country might well seem like a reasonable choice. If you're pro-life but you also see that man as an enemy of people of your race, then that might not seem like a reasonable decision to make.

 

[RDKirk]

This is purely supposition on my part, but I suspect it has more to do with detachment from immediate issues. If you are strongly pro-life for instance, then electing a man you don't think is moral but who can help you achieve a more pro-life country might well seem like a reasonable choice. If you're pro-life but you also see that man as an enemy of people of your race, then that might not seem like a reasonable decision to make.

As I implied earlier, even the latter position could be tolerable if the pastor doesn't still insist that you must celebrate that man who is an enemy of my race.

There are white evangelicals who took the position (like a lot of Republicans), "Hold your nose and accept him for the sake of the children." Or John Piper's position, "He's unqualified, but the Church has survived worse."

The problem is when the pastor insists from the pulpit that Trump is God's Main Man and that we must all love him or we're not good Christians. Sunday after Sunday, that eventually becomes intolerable. And that's pretty common in Texas.

 

[RDKirk]

I saw an interesting statistic, about 25% of blacks are evangelical and yet very rarely support Trump. I tend to wonder if being evangelical has much to do with it at all. There has to be a better demographic, there can't be a dimes worth of difference between what black and white evangelicals believe religiously.

That's true. But white evangelicals are the most likely to bring partisan politics into the pulpit.

 

[mark kennedy]

That's true. But white evangelicals are the most likely to bring partisan politics into the pulpit.

I don't really have a problem with churches involved in civic matters, even if it tends to be partisan. The Civil Rights movement started in the churches, I remember hearing MLK preaching in his home church early, preaching a sermon entitled 'Dogs in the Yard'. The idea was that if a rabid dog comes into the yard where your children play you have to take action. I heard it years ago on a vinyl LP at the library which is well before the advent of CDs.

Most white evangelicals are going to be living in rural communities who feel threatened by the liberal left. Most blacks will probably feel that the right has little regard for them or their problems so tend to veer hard left. I've done some work in doctrine and I know it can change from church to church but evangelicals are generally on the same page doctrinally. When the COGIC churches split with the Assemblies of God it had little to do with doctrine, it was right down racial lines. There was a side issue with the Apostolic (Jesus only) group but that was a doctrinal dispute between AOG and the oneness Pentecostals.

It is certainly interesting how religion can sometimes color political issues. The Catholics obviously have some political issues over abortion, I assume it effects how they vote. I'm just not entirely sure there is something in their theology that makes white evangelicals so right wing in their politics. It's got to be something cultural to have such a profound line of demarcation between white and black evangelicals in their political views.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't really have a problem with churches involved in civic matters, even if it tends to be partisan. The Civil Rights movement started in the churches, I remember hearing MLK preaching in his home church early, preaching a sermon entitled 'Dogs in the Yard'. The idea was that if a rabid dog comes into the yard where your children play you have to take action. I heard it years ago on a vinyl LP at the library which is well before the advent of CDs.

Most white evangelicals are going to be living in rural communities who feel threatened by the liberal left. Most blacks will probably feel that the right has little regard for them or their problems so tend to veer hard left. I've done some work in doctrine and I know it can change from church to church but evangelicals are generally on the same page doctrinally. When the COGIC churches split with the Assemblies of God it had little to do with doctrine, it was right down racial lines. There was a side issue with the Apostolic (Jesus only) group but that was a doctrinal dispute between AOG and the oneness Pentecostals.

It is certainly interesting how religion can sometimes color political issues. The Catholics obviously have some political issues over abortion, I assume it effects how they vote. I'm just not entirely sure there is something in their theology that makes white evangelicals so right wing in their politics. It's got to be something cultural to have such a profound line of demarcation between white and black evangelicals in their political views.

It's not theology. I can sit with an evangelical and we can sing theological kumbaya all day long.

 

[Halbhh]

“A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

In the last couple of decades, there had been signs, however modest, that eleven o’clock on Sunday morning might cease to be the most segregated hour in America.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/blacks-evangelical-churches.html

Fascinating article about the effects Trumps election has had on Black worshipers at white evangelical churches. Well worth a read.

Black congregants — as recounted by people in Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Fort Worth and elsewhere — had already grown uneasy in recent years as they watched their white pastors fail to address police shootings of African-Americans. They heard prayers for Paris, for Brussels, for law enforcement; they heard that one should keep one’s eyes on the kingdom, that the church was colorblind, and that talk of racial injustice was divisive, not a matter of the gospel. There was still some hope that this stemmed from an obliviousness rather than some deeper disconnect.

Then white evangelicals voted for Mr. Trump by a larger margin than they had voted for any presidential candidate.


Well....

Perhaps this is for the best, that they leave such churches.

In fact, it absolutely is for the best, isn't it?

After all, we want a church that is actually following Christ, not pretending to without doing so.

 

[Kentonio]

After all, we want a church that is actually following Christ, not pretending to without doing so.

I'm not sure which way you mean this. As in the church they are leaving currently doesn't follow christ, or it does?

 

[Halbhh]

“A Quiet Exodus: Why Black Worshipers Are Leaving White Evangelical Churches

In the last couple of decades, there had been signs, however modest, that eleven o’clock on Sunday morning might cease to be the most segregated hour in America.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/blacks-evangelical-churches.html

Fascinating article about the effects Trumps election has had on Black worshipers at white evangelical churches. Well worth a read.

continuing...

Then white evangelicals voted for Mr. Trump by a larger margin than they had voted for any presidential candidate. They cheered the outcome, reassuring uneasy fellow worshipers with talk of abortion and religious liberty, about how politics is the art of compromise rather than the ideal. Christians of color, even those who shared these policy preferences, looked at Mr. Trump’s comments about Mexican immigrants, his open hostility to N.F.L. players protesting police brutality and his earlier “birther” crusade against President Obama, claiming falsely he was not a United States citizen. In this political deal, many concluded, they were the compromised.

Wow.

You know, it's very much for the best for them to leave such less than Christ-following churches, those in which they can't help create real Christian following, where they can't overcome the lostness of other congregants, can't help challenge the un-Christian worldly following of men, like the Trump-worship that can happen.

All churches have members that are lost, not following Christ.

But if it's also that way from the pulpit, it's likely better often to just leave. When one doesn't have an effective way to help turn people to Him.

Only someone unusually strong might have what it takes to go to that pastor and ask them such questions about real Christ following in a loving way, and attempt to help the lostness. A church may be so worldly one cannot even change it, if one finds in conversations that others there are not interested in following Christ.

 

[Willie T]

They talk about evangelicals supporting Trump but they leave one thing out of the equation, blacks have a very different agenda. As a life long Democrat and a died in the wool evangelical I share their fears.

That post could probably have been more vague if you had worked at it a little. But you did succeed in making it pretty vague.

 

[mark kennedy]

That post could probably have been more vague if you had worked at it a little. But you did succeed in making it pretty vague.

I thought it was pretty clear, there is an obvious conflict of interests here that has little to do with theology.

 

[Willie T]

I thought it was pretty clear, there is an obvious conflict of interests here that has little to do with theology.

Well, it is "obvious" to me that what I have in mind is going on instead.

(See how that works? If we don't "use our words" as we were taught in school, we really don't communicate much of anything to others.)