A Question

[DavidFirth]

How do you know that for a fact?

 

[ArmyMatt]

How do you know that for a fact?

because I was one

 

[DavidFirth]

because I was one

Well, you haven't convinced me. What will you say as to why all Protestants are heretics?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, you haven't convinced me. What will you say as to why all Protestants are heretics?

at the very least, they persist and exist outside of the One Body of Christ which we see in Acts, which today is the Orthodox Church. to believe that all 40,000 denominations comprise the Church is heresy.

 

[gzt]

Persisting outside the body would merely be schism, not yet heresy.

 

[Dorothea]

I remember hearing some years ago that the baptism counts if the person was baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity and with the immersion of water. I don't remember where I heard this...might have been all the historical heresies podcast from Fr. Josiah Trenham many years ago, but I believe he said God still worked through the mystery of baptism even when Arius, a heretic of the early centuries of the church, baptized people bc it was done the correct way as I mentioned earlier.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Persisting outside the body would merely be schism, not yet heresy.

no, schism is persistence due to practical or administrative reasons. heresy is due to theology. Protestants have wrong theology.

 

[DavidFirth]

no, schism is persistence due to practical or administrative reasons. heresy is due to theology. Protestants have wrong theology.

Please elaborate. I am interested in what you think their wrong theology is.

I'm Catholic but I do not think all Protestants are heretics.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Please elaborate. I am interested in what you think their wrong theology is.

I'm Catholic but I do not think all Protestants are heretics.

depends on the Protestant. some are very close, others are miles away. but it's rooted in the reformation. Luther noted Roman heresy, but swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

 

[DavidFirth]

depends on the Protestant. some are very close, others are miles away. but it's rooted in the reformation. Luther noted Roman heresy, but swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

Opinion only. Do you have a Bible based reason for assuming heresy?

 

[Light of the East]

Opinion only. Do you have a Bible based reason for assuming heresy?

Good grief!! You can't find any of the Protestant particulars, such as "salvation by making a decision for Jaaaayzuz" "believer's baptism" "Communion as bare memorial only" disbelief in the Sacraments, no fasting, no ascesis, juridical forgiveness, "imputed righteousness," etc etc etc in either the Bible or the writings of the Early Fathers.

Whenever I am going toe to toe with a Protestant, my challenge to them is this "Show me the existence of your denomination and it's particular beliefs in the first three centuries of the Christian faith."

IT
AIN'T
THERE!!

 

[DavidFirth]

Good grief!! You can't find any of the Protestant particulars, such as "salvation by making a decision for Jaaaayzuz" "believer's baptism" "Communion as bare memorial only" disbelief in the Sacraments, no fasting, no ascesis, juridical forgiveness, "imputed righteousness," etc etc etc in either the Bible or the writings of the Early Fathers.

Whenever I am going toe to toe with a Protestant, my challenge to them is this "Show me the existence of your denomination and it's particular beliefs in the first three centuries of the Christian faith."

IT
AIN'T
THERE!!

I know some Protestants who can back up everything they believe with scripture. That says a lot more to me than most anything else.

Most Protestant baptisms are accepted by the RCC as valid. Did you not know this?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Opinion only. Do you have a Bible based reason for assuming heresy?

it's not opinion. fine, I will do one most of them say. the belief that the Eucharist isn't the Body and Blood of Christ

 

[DavidFirth]

it's not opinion. fine, I will do one most of them say. the belief that the Eucharist isn't the Body and Blood of Christ

Most of them believe the Eucharist is a symbol of the body and blood and many of them believe it is, spiritually. So that makes all of them heretics?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Most of them believe the Eucharist is a symbol of the body and blood and many of them believe it is, spiritually. So that makes all of them heretics?

seeing as how Christ, in the Greek, made it clear that it literally becomes His Body and Blood, yes, that makes them heretics.

 

[Light of the East]

I know some Protestants who can back up everything they believe with scripture. That says a lot more to me than most anything else.

No, no, no, no, no......!!!!!

They twist, maim, and distort the Scriptures to suit themselves. They take verses out of context and take a single verse to build an entire doctrine (such as in Romans 4 and "imputed righteousness.")

The fact is that you could easily use the same Scriptures against any Protestant who tries to defend his pet theologies. For instance, if some Baptist tries to use the Bible to prove "believer's baptism," you simply point out that the Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians use the same Bible to prove paedo-baptism.

The fact is that the myriads of different doctrines within the hundreds of Protestant denominations is a proof that they are divorced from the proper understanding of the Scriptures. All of them claim to believe because of what the Bible says and because the Holy Spirit is guiding them. The more outlandish of them, like Jimmy Swaggart, claim that God whispers directly into their ear.

 

[DavidFirth]

seeing as how Christ, in the Greek, made it clear that it literally becomes His Body and Blood, yes, that makes them heretics.

And that means all of them are going to hell the way you see it?

 

[Light of the East]

And that means all of them are going to hell the way you see it?

Well, what does the Bible record Jesus as saying in John 6?

"If ye do not eat the flesh of the son of man nor drink his blood..........YE HAVE NOT LIFE."

That's pretty strong, wouldn't you agree?

 

[DavidFirth]

No, no, no, no, no......!!!!!

They twist, maim, and distort the Scriptures to suit themselves. They take verses out of context and take a single verse to build an entire doctrine (such as in Romans 4 and "imputed righteousness.")

The fact is that you could easily use the same Scriptures against any Protestant who tries to defend his pet theologies. For instance, if some Baptist tries to use the Bible to prove "believer's baptism," you simply point out that the Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians use the same Bible to prove paedo-baptism.

The fact is that the myriads of different doctrines within the hundreds of Protestant denominations is a proof that they are divorced from the proper understanding of the Scriptures. All of them claim to believe because of what the Bible says and because the Holy Spirit is guiding them. The more outlandish of them, like Jimmy Swaggart, claim that God whispers directly into their ear.

I know Protestants who could rebut your post quite well. Condemning all of them by thinking as you do is not right.

 

[ArmyMatt]

And that means all of them are going to hell the way you see it?

nope.