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The point is, that the command does not only speaking about praying to images, but also of prostrating before them. In our culture, this would be kneeling before them, in another context even bowing down. Whether with prayers or not, is secondary.Yes, I know that, it's just----why change anything at all? Or is it to minimize that there are images and they pray to them---and please spare me the age old thing about--no we don't pray to them they are just symbols
Why did you start to believe sola scriptura?Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.
"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.
I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.
So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV
Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?
They don't worship them as gods so nopeIn practice, they ignore it. Images are venerated, like the golden image of JHWH, who brought Israel out of Egypt, at Sinai (Ex 32:4-5).
Weak point. God does not stop everything we wish should be stopped. He did not top the RC church in the about 1000 years bfrom the beginning of their split from the Orthodox church to Luther, to name one example.
Namely, Jeremiah.
You forgot to mention Junia, who was an Apostle (Rom 16:7), and Priska (affectionately called Priscilla in a number of verses), who taught (together with her husband) the evangelist Apollos some important lessons on baptism and the Holy Spirit (Acts 18:26).
This means that apostleship and teaching men is not entirely forbidden for women.
I'm not entirely sure how a woman can be the husband of one wifeExactly. So when people quote 1 Timothy 2:12, seek to apply it literally and say that it prohibits women from being ordained, or preachers; that interpretation is not borne out elsewhere in Scripture.
What other options do disciples of Christ and the Apostles have?Why did you start to believe sola scriptura?
The commandment mentions not only worshiping as God, but also prostrating - which is in our culture kneeling, and in other context bowing down. So whether they worship them as God is a secondary question.They don't worship them as gods so nope
Male leaders were the usual case, whether in Hellenistic associations (where the word "overseer" stems from) or in Jewish synagogues (where the word "elders stems from). But with a minimum of sound thinking you can apply this requirement to a woman: She should be wife of one man.I'm not entirely sure how a woman can be the husband of one wife
I'm not entirely sure how a woman can be the husband of one wife
He certainly is capable, but He may choose not to step in. As history shows, He doesn't step in every time we are inclined to think He should do. He surely has reasons for that, some are mentioned or hinted at in Scripture, others may totally unknown to us.No, but if ... is God not capable of stepping in
1.Tim 2:11 mentions female deacons. The interpretations that their wives are meant is rather weak. So we have female deacons in general (1.Tm 2:11) and a specific example of them (Rm 16:1).She can't. But female deacons wasn't the norm, or maybe possible, in those days - it doesn't mean it can't be now.
Well, he did say something about that:Jesus said that a man shouldn't divorce his wife; he said nothing about a woman divorcing her husband.
I had this same issue... and through prayer, the Lord told me to go back to His church. So I went back to Eastern Orthodoxy. I have found it to be a place of solace. I would recommend that you pray and seek with an open and devout heart. The Lord will guide you to where He wants you.How on earth can they possible twist that passage, it's so clear.
Please tell me which churches have not buckled. What's Orthodox like?.
I've only started to learn about all these denominations and their differences and its becoming so overwhelmingly confusing.
I was addressing the idea that any concept of leadership in the church, any hierarchy, any distinction between laity and clergy, etc. is bogus.You don't say what you are referring to. Do you want to say that denying women the possibility to serve as a church leader flies in the face of a number of NT verses?
What you are saying is that the same word is used for both deacons and deaconesses, not that there are female deacons. And the proof of this is found in how the first churches separated the duties of the two.1.Tim 2:11 mentions female deacons.
Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.
"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.
I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.
So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV
Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?
What do you mean about Catholics only? The Orthodox Church isn’t composed of Catholics, unless you are referencing the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” from the creed.Catholics only.
Catholics only are entrenched in killing women’s voices still. But if you say that Eastern Orthodox do the same also ... if you’ll take notice that is what the bash thread is about.What do you mean about Catholics only? The Orthodox Church isn’t composed of Catholics, unless you are referencing the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” from the creed.
To the OP, if you want to understand what Orthodoxy is, please feel free to stop by the congregational forum The Ancient Way. While it has many similarities to Catholicism, it is not the same. We have some significant doctrinal differences besides just the pope, such as disagreeing with the immaculate conception.
We don’t hold to Sola Scriptura, but we also don’t believe there is a second stream of authority. Scripture is the center of Holy Tradition. That said, nothing can contradict scripture, but even scripture teaches that we should hold firm to more than just scripture.
Uh, there are many denominations that do not ordain women. Many if not most of them do give women leadership roles other than as clergy, however.Catholics only are entrenched in killing women’s voices still. But if you say that Eastern Orthodox do the same also ... if you’ll take notice that is what the bash thread is about.
I have you on ignore.Uh, there are many denominations that do not ordain women. Many if not most of them do give women leadership roles other than as clergy, however.
So that's just something to keep in mind, whichever way any of us thinks is the right way to go.
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