concretecamper
I stand with Candice.
- Nov 23, 2013
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I doubt you got this information from a Catholic.No I got bad information from other Catholics.
Doctrine in the Orthodox Church is not a popularity contest. Arianism was very popular in the 4th century, but it was false teaching nonetheless.
It wouldn't surprise me if he did, given how poorly chatechised many now former Catholics have shown themselves to be.I doubt you got this information from a Catholic.
You don't have to interpret, the Catholic Catechism states Church teaching:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
Don’t you think all religions think they are the only ‘way’ - (John 14:6)I heard, I think it was the Catholic teacher Tim Staples or Jimmy Akin, say that only Catholics can know they are in the boat, other Christians swim in the lake hoping they will get to the other side. It sounded a bit like only Catholics are saved for certain, but other Christians may or may not be saved. I don't know if that's the official teaching of the RCC.
This is an honest question to all of the non-Protestant high churches like the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, and any other Church that says they are the One True Apostolic Catholic Church outside of which there is no salvation.
History is full of people rejecting Christ and His Church. The fact that the EO Patriarchs didnt accept the Petrine office is just one example in a long line of disobedience.
The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that there is salvation outside of the EOC. I believe only Roman Catholicism teaches that there is no salvation outside of the RCC.
I would guess back in that day there were not many Bibles (The Word, The Truth, Jesus) laying around in tents and castles. And there might not have been one made in the language they spoke. So they depended on the church to teach the Word to them. They had no other source unless God spoke to them personally. Today we all have bibles in the free world to read. The bible also says the temple of God in within us. If we follow Jesus's sayings. Almost all the churches today are filled with doctrines of demons. Clouds without water. No righteousness. And is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. From front back row to front row to the pulpit to the choir. Full of television watching, entertainment seeking, self glorifying people who think that stopping smoking and drinking and swearing is their ticket to heaven but don't talk about slander or gossip or witchcraft or pride or coveting or idolatry or repentance or sanctification or the fear of the Lord. Yes I am preaching to myself too because I am no better than the rest of you.You don't have to interpret, the Catholic Catechism states Church teaching:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Until the invention of the printing press Bibles were scarce. A Catholic monastery might have one, maybe two. So monks had to memorize before going out to preach. Also before that time most peopleI would guess back in that day there were not many Bibles (The Word, The Truth, Jesus) laying around in tents and castles. And there might not have been one made in the language they spoke. So they depended on the church to teach the Word to them. They had no other source unless God spoke to them personally. Today we all have bibles in the free world to read. The bible also says the temple of God in within us. If we follow Jesus's sayings. Almost all the churches today are filled with doctrines of demons. Clouds without water. No righteousness. And is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. From front back row to front row to the pulpit to the choir. Full of television watching, entertainment seeking, self glorifying people who think that stopping smoking and drinking and swearing is their ticket to heaven but don't talk about slander or gossip or witchcraft or pride or coveting or idolatry or repentance or sanctification or the fear of the Lord. Yes I am preaching to myself too because I am no better than the rest of you.
Until the invention of the printing press Bibles were scarce. A Catholic monastery might have one, maybe two. So monks had to memorize before going out to preach. Also before that time most people
were illiterate.
Clouds without water. No righteousness. And is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. From front back row to front row to the pulpit to the choir. Full of television watching, entertainment seeking, self glorifying people who think that stopping smoking and drinking and swearing is their ticket to heaven but don't talk about slander or gossip or witchcraft or pride or coveting or idolatry or repentance or sanctification or the fear of the Lord. Yes I am preaching to myself too because I am no better than the rest of you.
By the way, before anyone else makes misinformed comments, can we just say in a definite way that the EO and RC do not, according to church doctrine, worship saints or practice idolatry? I am so profoundly tired of people making these false accusations against liturgical Christians, which seem veritably ripped from the pages of a Jack Chick tract, it wearies ones soul, and is also entirely toxic to inter-denominational Christian fellowship, ecumenical reconciliation, and objective religious dialogue based on the truth, being rather the perpetuation of an untruth that is both uncharitable and unfounded.
For me personally, as a Protestant, it's confusing why I would pray to a saint to talk to God for me, when I can simply talk to God myself. I think that's where the confusion comes in. And if I'm praying to a saint, how is that different from worshipping them? (I feel some folks do worship the saints, but that's another discussion for another time.)
Asking the saints to pray for you is no different from asking someone in your congregation to pray for you, because the saints are alive in Christ, members of the Church Triumphant. It is not worship, because the saints are not adored but merely venerable. God alone, the Holy Trinity, is worthy of adoration.
If "soul sleep" is indeed the true condition of all of us following physical death, I guess that they could not ask God for anything. But that POV is very much a minority one among Christians; and the Bible definitely does speak of us being conscious in the spirit world right after we die here on Earth.I guess I understand that, kind of. But I don't know where the Bible verses come from to support the idea, and if the saints are "asleep", as the Bible describes, then how can they ask God for anything, or hear any requests?
One of our oldest prayers is Psalm 103. We address the angels in Heaven yet we do not give them the worship we give to God. When you ask someone to pray for you that does not man you worship that person (or angel), whether that person is here on earth or here in Heaven.For me personally, as a Protestant, it's confusing why I would pray to a saint to talk to God for me, when I can simply talk to God myself. I think that's where the confusion comes in. And if I'm praying to a saint, how is that different from worshipping them? (I feel some folks do worship the saints, but that's another discussion for another time.)
Asking the saints to pray for you is no different from asking someone in your congregation to pray for you, because the saints are alive in Christ, members of the Church Triumphant. It is not worship, because the saints are not adored but merely venerable. God alone, the Holy Trinity, is worthy of adoration.
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