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Featured A Question to all the Non Protestant High Churches

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by aspie3000, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. aspie3000

    aspie3000 New Member

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    This is an honest question to all of the non-Protestant high churches like the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, and any other Church that says they are the One True Apostolic Catholic Church outside of which there is no salvation. So, if I were a Protestant who wanted to join one of your churches for the reason that I would want to join the one true church founded by Jesus Christ and his Apostles and not burn in Hell for not being a part of your organization which one of you is the true church? I've studied the history of the schisms and it's all very hazy. What is your argument for why your church is the true church and with the "one true church" split into four or more branches do you really have any more legitimacy to claim to be the one true church than any protestant church? I'm not trying to start an argument here I really am curious as to the arguments as I am open to joining one of your churches if you give a convincing answer and God tells me to but as a protestant, this seems to be the most screwy thing to me about your churches.
     
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  2. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, for one thing we predate the Protestant churches by about 1500 years. The Protestant Churches didn't even begin to exist for one and a half millennia after Christ.

    Secondly every single doctrine you've inherited from us - Baptism, marriage, the idea of a church in the first place, the tradition of the Bible, the concept of Christian doctrine, church organisation, the writings of Church fathers, the concept of the Trinity worked out in the first centuries after Christ, and all the rest.

    Thirdly if you Protestants have the truth, why are you so divided? Why should we believe you've got something to teach us?
     
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  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    In my opinion, Anglicanism is the truest church (if you want to argue the issue that way) because it is the one that alone avoids both of the extremes. It is both catholic and reformed, which no other communion/church/denomination is.

    On the other hand, we do not say to you that you are bound for hell if you choose Christ but do not also join our branch of Christianity. :)
     
  4. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    As a Greek Orthodox convert myself, all I can say is my wife pretty much repeated what the envoys said to Vladimir, the Prince of Kiev, after our first Orthodox liturgy.

    "We no longer knew whether we were in heaven or on earth."

    St. Nicholas Holy Trinity Cincinnati Ohio
    [​IMG]
     
  5. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that there is salvation outside of the EOC. I believe only Roman Catholicism teaches that there is no salvation outside of the RCC.
     
  6. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    Right, the analogy is that the church is the equivalent of Noah's ark. You might be saved by clinging to driftwood or in a dingy. The most frequent quote about salvation in other churches is St. Theophan the Recluse, "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."
     
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  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    On the subject of the schism of 1054 I would point out that there were 5 patriarchates who each governed the churches in their jurisdiction. When the schism took place 4 of the 5 patriarchates adopted the name Orthodox leaving the Bishop of Rome all alone in his claim of papal supremacy. I think that’s a big piece of evidence to consider when evaluating the schism.
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Well I think that would depend on what doctrinal errors the person is experiencing. Perhaps they decide to take a neutral stance on Mary’s perpetual virginity, the stance that I myself have taken, I don’t think this would constitute a loss of salvation simply for being indecisive on the matter.
     
  9. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    Study, pray and be humble. If you approach this subject trusting in God He will lead you to His Church. Be open to the Holy Spirit's inspirations.

    None of the Main line protestant congregations were around until the reformation so it counts them out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  10. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If numbers of adherents are anything to go by in today's world, the four (?) patriarchates have about 220 million members between them worldwide, while the single Pope, "all along in his claim of papal supremacy" has about 1.2 billion followers.

    How many of these are fair weather Catholics or Orthodox is a moot point, but the singular claim of papal supremacy seems to have been far more successful.

    And Peter did go to Rome.

    I don't like getting involved in Catholic / Orthodox disputes, as I am personally more concerned about the Protestant break.

    Also I have no experience of the Orthodox Church, other than once a attending an infant baptism in a Greek Orthodox Church, which was all Greek to me if you'll pardon the expression.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  11. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I find it hard to believe that if Rome’s claim to papal supremacy were valid that none of the other patrarchates would support it. I really recommend looking into the Church history and comparing it to the Eastern Orthodox teachings and their conduct. I think both are very compelling evidence.
     
  12. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    My church history is not as clear in my mind as it was years ago but I believe that the Great Schism of 1054 concerned the Filioque. The major split was a result of the killing of Orthodox Christians and the destruction of their churches in Constantinople early in the 13th century by Christian crusaders.
     
  13. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Actually it didn’t; the Filioque Controversy occurred in the 9th century. Then in the 10th century things in the Roman church really got a bit weird, with the Cadaver Synod and other things which I expect freaked out the Eastern Patriarchs, and then in 1054 a Papal legate decided he had his fill of arguing about Papal supremacy with regards to various issues and slapped a writ of excommunication against the Ecumenical Patriarch on the altar of the Hagia Sophia and fled New Rome for Old Rome; deacons were sent to try to persuade him to return but were unsuccessful. Then in 1078 the Churches of Antioch and Rome anathematized each other, and from there it did progress as you describe.

    Fortunately in recent years things have been better in many respects.
     
  14. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    There were several reasons behind the schism but it was Rome’s claim you papal supremacy that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The addition of the filioque took place back in the 7th century if I’m not mistaken and the attack on Constantinople took place after the schism.
     
  15. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    Come on, digging up the body of your predecessor to put him on trial isn't weird!
     
  16. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    History is full of people rejecting Christ and His Church. The fact that the EO Patriarchs didnt accept the Petrine office is just one example in a long line of disobedience.
     
  17. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    So instead of one patriarchate falling away your suggesting that all but one fell away? In Matthew 7 Jesus said you can identify a false prophet by his actions. So let’s compare the actions of the EOC to the actions of the RCC. Shortly after the schism the RCC pope sanctioned the inquisitions in 1184AD which gave the church the authority to arrest, imprison, torture, and in some cases even execute nonbelievers who refuse to convert. This went on for 686 years. The EOC never engaged in activities like this. In fact I can’t seem to find any skeletons in the EOC closet unlike the RCC who then went on to begin soliciting indulgences in return for money which then led to the formulation of the doctrine of purgatory which allowed them to even solicit indulgences for the dead which still takes place to this day.
     
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  18. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    ah, the mud slinging begins. May I suggest you brush up on your history.
     
  19. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Feel free to correct me where you feel I have made an error friend. I honestly don’t like to bring up these things but unfortunately I think they are very relevant to the discussion.
     
  20. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    Haha, you cant make this stuff up. This has nothing to do with the OP or my repsonse. So transparent.:doh:
     
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