A question for the non sabatarians(spelling?)

[Cribstyl]

I give up. Shout me when signs of intelligent life are observed.

Dominicans dont give up

we trust God and stay cool

CRIB

 

[sentipente]

Dominicans dont give up

we trust God and stay cool

CRIB

I seem to remember some advice regarding precious objects and a certain class of farm animals.

 

[JonMiller]

so is that an admission or not?

Humans might write false information, but if it is included in the Bible... than it is included with God's intention.

We don't need to be asking ourselves if a section is false or not.

JM

 

[StormyOne]

Humans might write false information, but if it is included in the Bible... than it is included with God's intention.

We don't need to be asking ourselves if a section is false or not.

JM

then truth is not being sought, just confirmation of the status quo.... and that's cool, I have no problem with that, just admit it for what it is.....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

then truth is not being sought, just confirmation of the status quo.... and that's cool, I have no problem with that, just admit it for what it is.....

Are there statements contained in Scripture that weren't intended by God? If so, should we even read the Scriptures? If we should read the Scriptures, how can we determine whether the particular passage we are reading at a given moment wass intended by God, or if it is contrary to God's intentions?

BFA

 

[Adventtruth]

then truth is not being sought, just confirmation of the status quo.... and that's cool, I have no problem with that, just admit it for what it is.....

Stormy what is the difference in :

1) discovering and confirming moral truth through the bible as an authoritative source,

and

2) confirming truth through emotion and feelings?


AT

 

[sentipente]

Are there statements contained in Scripture that weren't intended by God? If so, should we even read the Scriptures?

Is there anything in life that was not intended by God. If so, should we even live?

Do you see the problem? What humans believe is not intended by God cannot trump the fact that God made man with full knowledge of what man is capable of doing. There is nothing man has done that God did not intend.

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy what is the difference in :

1) discovering and confirming moral truth through the bible as an authoritative source,

and

2) confirming truth through emotion and feelings?


AT

I cannot answer the question as posed because there are 3 variables that have to be defined.... the bible as an authoritative source for whom? confirming truth through emotion and feelings means what? are you suggesting that there are only two ways in which truth can be confirmed?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

You missed the most important question. The one to which the others were leading. Here it is, stated differently:

Q: If we should read the Scriptures, how can we determine whether the particular passage we are reading at a given moment is articulated according to who God is, or if it is contrary to who God is?
​

Is there anything in life that was not intended by God.

If so, should we pursue it? Let's imagine that God did not intend for man to wear tennis shoes (just a silly hypothetical for the sake of discussion). Should I wear tennis shoes?

Do you see the problem?

I think you are suggesting that the Bible contains both things that are consistent with who God is and things that are inconsistent with who God is. If I've misunderstood, please clarify. If the Bible contains things that God are inconsistent with who God is, how do we identify such things?

What humans believe is not intended by God

I'm still trying to ascertain exactly what that is. Can you help me?

cannot trump the fact that God made man with full knowledge of what man is capable of doing.

How do you know this to be true?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Are there statements contained in Scripture that weren't intended by God? If so, should we even read the Scriptures? If we should read the Scriptures, how can we determine whether the particular passage we are reading at a given moment was intended by God, or if it is contrary to God's intentions?

BFA

BFA, it is my belief that the bible is a compilation of how men perceived God. I do not believe that God hovered over those who wrote their perceptions to ensure that everything they wrote was correct. Nor do I believe that God was giving input at the committee meeting when the sources were edited, cobbled together, configured and the end result was "the bible." So we can read the stories in the bible of how these people interacted with God and take from that anything that might be useful.

I do not think the bible should be used as a guidebook for one's life, though there are many who believe that they should.... but that's me....

 

[sentipente]

cannot trump the fact that God made man with full knowledge of what man is capable of doing.

How do you know this to be true?

BFA

Strange you should ask. He made it all. How can man have a capability that is a surprise to Him?

 

[Adventtruth]

I cannot answer the question as posed because there are 3 variables that have to be defined.... the bible as an authoritative source for whom? confirming truth through emotion and feelings means what? are you suggesting that there are only two ways in which truth can be confirmed?

1) If a Christian finds the bible to be sufficient and the authoratative source for truth.

2) Finding certain actions and situations to be righteous and morally true through ones subjective feelings and emotions, rather than an objective authritative source.

3)No, but that confirmation should not be self evident.

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

BFA, it is my belief that the bible is a compilation of how men perceived God. I do not believe that God hovered over those who wrote their perceptions to ensure that everything they wrote was correct. Nor do I believe that God was giving input at the committee meeting when the sources were edited, cobbled together, configured and the end result was "the bible." So we can read the stories in the bible of how these people interacted with God and take from that anything that might be useful.

I do not think the bible should be used as a guidebook for one's life, though there are many who believe that they should.... but that's me....

And I am such a person who does. This leads into the age old question.....So how do you establish moral truth?


AT

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA, it is my belief that the bible is a compilation of how men perceived God. I do not believe that God hovered over those who wrote their perceptions to ensure that everything they wrote was correct. Nor do I believe that God was giving input at the committee meeting when the sources were edited, cobbled together, configured and the end result was "the bible." So we can read the stories in the bible of how these people interacted with God and take from that anything that might be useful.

I do not think the bible should be used as a guidebook for one's life, though there are many who believe that they should.... but that's me....

In another thread, I think I understood you to say that you believe that man was created by God, but that you do not believe that God adopted or will adopt people (because such people are already his). If I've correctly understood you, then it seems that you have concluded that certain Scriptures are accurate and others are inaccurate. Is this a fair statement? If so, what is the process that you went through to make that determination?

Upon what basis do you believe that there is a God? By faith? Are there any things that you believe are "authoritative?"

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

He made it all.

How do you know that to be true? By faith?

I don't want to be a pest, so just let me know if you would prefer not to answer the following question:

Q: If we should read the Scriptures, how can we determine whether the particular passage we are reading at a given moment is articulated according to who God is, or if it is contrary to who God is?
​

BFA

 

[Adventtruth]

Is there anything in life that was not intended by God. If so, should we even live?

Do you see the problem? What humans believe is not intended by God cannot trump the fact that God made man with full knowledge of what man is capable of doing. There is nothing man has done that God did not intend.

I would not go as far as to say God intended for man to sin in any form. But I would say God knew what men would do before they did it. To imply that God intended is to say God mapped it out and planed it. If this is the case, God is responsible for sin.

AT

 

[StormyOne]

1) If a Christian finds the bible to be sufficient and the authoratative source for truth.

2) Finding certain actions and situations to be righteous and morally true through ones subjective feelings and emotions, rather than an objective authritative source.

3)No, but that confirmation should not be self evident.

AT

If a christian believes the bible is sufficient then they will act accordingly.....

Some believe that there is an objective source of truth, the problem is that it is human filtered, thus rendering this objective source subjective.... or as the saying goes, "You can be assured that you have created God in your own image when He hates the same people you hate....."

There are multiple ways to arrive at "truth" however the manner in which we use to search for truth determines how "true" our "truth" is....

 

[StormyOne]

In another thread, I think I understood you to say that you believe that man was created by God, but that you do not believe that God adopted or will adopt people (because such people are already his). If I've correctly understood you, then it seems that you have concluded that certain Scriptures are accurate and others are inaccurate. Is this a fair statement? If so, what is the process that you went through to make that determination?

Upon what basis do you believe that there is a God? By faith? Are there any things that you believe are "authoritative?"

BFA

you are correct, there are things in the bible that are incorrect. The process is simple, if the bible narrative states that something happened, yet there is no record anywhere, no evidence no nothing, then that narrative is incorrect. Likewise if people who have degrees in biblical languages and have been dissecting/examining the text and point out inclusions, differences in styles, etc, then to me it provides enough evidence to suggest that something other than divine illumination has been at work...

How do I know that there is a God? By looking around and realizing that all of this did not just happen, that someone had to create the world we see and the things that inhabit that world.

Authoritative in what sense? Something that we must absolutely adhere to?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

you are correct, there are things in the bible that are incorrect. The process is simple, if the bible narrative states that something happened, yet there is no record anywhere, no evidence no nothing, then that narrative is incorrect. Likewise if people who have degrees in biblical languages and have been dissecting/examining the text and point out inclusions, differences in styles, etc, then to me it provides enough evidence to suggest that something other than divine illumination has been at work...

Ultimately, it would seem that all of us make determinations of what is true and we do so by placing our faith in one thing or another, or perhaps in one person or another. Do you and I have a different source of faith, or the same source?

How do I know that there is a God? By looking around and realizing that all of this did not just happen, that someone had to create the world we see and the things that inhabit that world.

It would seem that there are some who look around them and reach a different conclusion than you've reached. They conclude that there was no Creator. Are their conclusions equally as accurate as your conclusions, or has one group reached a conclusion that is more accurate than the other group? How can we tell?

Authoritative in what sense? Something that we must absolutely adhere to?

Something that can be relied on for an understanding of things that are true.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

I seem to remember some advice regarding precious objects and a certain class of farm animals.

SAY WHAT!!!!?????

These dialog should be to share your socalled truths with others.
We should do it in christian love.

Use your wisdom to build up and not to tear down.

Regardless of all these confusing dialogs...You're a child of the King.
So, live and act like it.

CRIB