A Question for Creationists

[Doveaman]

Please present evidence that God was the cause.

The cause is the evidence.

God is the cause. The cause is God. Therefore the cause is the evidence of God.

Joe is the plumber. The plumber is Joe. Therefore the plumber is the evidence of Joe.

Find the plumber and you will find Joe.

 

[Doveaman]

A creator cannot create itself out of nothing. Who created the creator?

If the creator was created He would not be ‘the’ creator, He would be ‘a’ creator.

He is called ‘the’ creator for a reason.

 

[lasthero]

Evolutionist believe in Boobzilla; a reptile grew boobs and long hair and became hot blooded.
Nobody understands evolution because it doesn't make any sense.

You are one strawman away from a role in the Wizard of Oz.

 

[OllieFranz]

You are one strawman away from a role in the Wizard of Oz.

I'd say that it's Tinman that he's missing. We've seen his strawman. We've also seen his paper tiger, a fair substitute for the cowardly lion. And he himself is clearly the lost and alone partner (Dorothy).

 

[Elendur]

Would it be a universe without galaxies (stars, planets, moons, rocks, dust, ect.)?

Most certainly.

Galaxies are still coming into being and added to the universe, so the universe is still being formed.

So, you'd say a petri dish is still coming into being because there's bacteria growing inside of it?

 

[mzungu]

To our creationist friends who insist that the universe could not have come from "Nothing" : University of Michigan News Service | Theoretical breakthrough: Generating matter and antimatter from the vacuum

By the way; "something and Nothing" are not meaningful concepts in QM.

Now as for ToE allowing for chimeras to evolve eg: crocoducks; then it is like me claiming that Christianity claims Jesus was hung by a rope and not crucified.

HASN'T ANY CREATIONIST EVER HEARD OF DIRAC's EQUATION

 

[OllieFranz]

Now as for ToE allowing for chimeras to evolve eg: crocoducks; then it is like me claiming that Christianity claims Jesus was hung by a rope and not crucified.

Keep in mind that most Creationists don't do analogies well, so if you make a remark like that without "translating" it for the metaphor-impaired, instead of recognizing that you have a point, they are going to assume that you are just going to assume you are just being randomly rude and blasphemous. You might get reported and banned because they are reading into your remark things that aren't there.

I've had posts edited and deleted over less. Once I even got a warning for a post that the only thing objected to was quoting a passage from the Bible. I have made a point of not quoting that pasage on CF since. (Though there are times I have alluded to that passage, and explained why I dared not quote it.)

 

[EternalDragon]

To our creationist friends who insist that the universe could not have come from "Nothing" : University of Michigan News Service | Theoretical breakthrough: Generating matter and antimatter from the vacuum

Isn't it correct that a vacuum does contain matter?

 

[mzungu]

Isn't it correct that a vacuum does contain matter?

If I have my physics right; In the vacuum of space, matter and antimatter particles spontaneously appear and annihilate each other. Black holes manage to "suck" in some antimatter particles while leaving out matter particles on the event horizon as heat ( infra-red radiation ). Eventually after literally trillions of years the antimatter particles will cause the black holes to evaporate through the process of the antimatter particles annihilating the matter within the black hole.

Dirac's equation shows how matter and antimatter can appear in a vacuum.

If there are any physicists here to correct me?

There is also an excellent documentary on the subject of matter from vacuum by the BBC and it is in two parts: EVERYTHING and NOTHING. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yb59m

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The cause is the evidence.

God is the cause. The cause is God. Therefore the cause is the evidence of God.

Joe is the plumber. The plumber is Joe. Therefore the plumber is the evidence of Joe.

Find the plumber and you will find Joe.

That is really bad reasoning. I could find a plumber that happens not to be Joe. I could find a Joe who isn't a plumber. The evidence for Joe being a plumber or a plumber being called Joe comes from elsewhere, not from some intrinsic connection between the concepts 'Joe' and 'plumber'.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is really bad reasoning. I could find a plumber that happens not to be Joe. I could find a Joe who isn't a plumber. The evidence for Joe being a plumber or a plumber being called Joe comes from elsewhere, not from some intrinsic connection between the concepts 'Joe' and 'plumber'.

Joe who?

 

[frogman2x]

Yet, the evidence for BB is orders of magnitude higher than that for the existence of a deity.

What evidence do you have for the BB? If there is a magnitude, one or two examples should prove you right.

What evidence do you have for how all the matter that went bang came into being?

What evidence do you have as to how the energy necessary to make the BB go boom originated?

Since matter cannot creat itself out of nothing, there is much more evidence for the exisence of a Creator. Not only of a Creator but also for an Intelligent Designer.

 

[frogman2x]

Why aren't humans and chimps varieties of the same kind?




Even the DNA of two individuals within the same species are not the same.

Right but the DNA identifies them as the same species. The DNA from a chimp will identify it as a differen species.

I am not stuck on it. I just use it to show how absurd it is the believe a mutation ,or several can be a mechanism for evolution.[/qutoe]

How is it absurd? Every human is born with mutations, and it is mutations that cause humans and chimps to be different.

It is not the mutation that make us a different species, it is the DNA we have.

Neither. They share a common ancestor that is part of the Carnivora kind that was neither a dog or a cat. However, both dogs and cats remain in the Carnivora kind. It is no different than chihuahuas and great danes sharing a common ancestor that was niether a chihuahua or a great dane. Oh, and by the way, the DNA of two chihuahuas will be different.

You don't seem to understand that DNA identifes "kinds" of the same species and it also identifies species that are a different "kind." It cleary tells us the cats and dogs are different kinds. Plants also have DNA, are we descended from them also?

 

[frogman2x]

Why would matter need to come from nothing in order for our universe to have a natural origin?

Maybe not. Why don't you explain how it got here.

Also, where did you show that life can not come about by itself? This is just an empty assertion on your part.

Maybe so. Why don' tyou eplain how life started.

All of the matter in our universe came from the condensation of energy, not nothing.

Where did he energy come from?

 

[frogman2x]

To our creationist friends who insist that the universe could not have come from "Nothing" : University of Michigan News Service | Theoretical breakthrough: Generating matter and antimatter from the vacuum


The problem is you can not get a perfecdt vacuum.

By the way; "something and Nothing" are not meaningful concepts in QM

Irrelevant until you can prove something can come intoeistenc from nothing

Now as for ToE allowing for chimeras to evolve eg: crocoducks; then it is like me claiming that Christianity claims Jesus was hung by a rope and not crucified.

Do you ever provide the source so we cn check it for accuracyd?

HASN'T ANY CREATIONIST EVER HEARD OF DIRAC's EQUATION

Why is it relevant. You cna' prove it is a mechanim for evolution.

 

[frogman2x]

We have fossils with a mixture of basal ape and modern human features. That makes them transitional

You do not.

We have 200,000 ERV's shared by humans and chimps.

Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 109 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14).
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences​

​

You can have a gazillion, but humans will contiue producing humans and chimps will coninue producing chimps.

We have the evidence. You can run away from it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is on our side.

You have no bioligical evidence. You can run away form that all you want, but it will not change biological facts.

 

[frogman2x]

Keep in mind that most Creationists don't do analogies well, so if you make a remark like that without "translating" it for the metaphor-impaired, instead of recognizing that you have a point, they are going to assume that you are just going to assume you are just being randomly rude and blasphemous. You might get reported and banned because they are reading into your remark things that aren't there.

How arerogant, insulting and self serving. We do analogies probabaly better than you do becaue the Bible has many type of figurative language and we put soem tgiem in studyidng wha they mean. The problem is that evo, mix apples and oranges with the attempt with analogies.

I've had posts edited and deleted over less. Once I even got a warning for a post that the only thing objected to was quoting a passage from the Bible. I have made a point of not quoting that pasage on CF since. (Though there are times I have alluded to that passage, and explained why I dared not quote it.)

It seems strange that in a Christian forum anyone would object to you quoting a Bible verse. I see it done many times here. There must be more to it than that. Is there any way you could allude what it was to me? Mabye just book, chapter and verse would get past the staff.

 

[Loudmouth]

That's right. Scientist has done everything under the sun to fruit flies and they continue to resist evolution. I guess this means fruit flies are creationist.
Experimental evolution reveals resistance to change : Nature

How do fruit flies resist evolution? There are hundreds of species of fruit flies.

 

[Loudmouth]

You do not.

Why aren't these fossils transitional? What features would a fossil need in order for you to accept it as transitional?

You can have a gazillion, but humans will contiue producing humans and chimps will coninue producing chimps.

Why does this prevent humans and chimps from sharing a common ancestor? Chihuahuas keep producing chihuahuas and great danes keep producing great danes, but they still share a common ancestor.

You have no bioligical evidence.

We just showed you the biological evidence, and you have presented nothing to refute it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Maybe not. Why don't you explain how it got here.

Already explained. It came from the condensation of energy.

Maybe so. Why don' tyou eplain how life started.

I don't know how life started, but I certainly have seen no evidence that life can not come about through natural means as you keep claiming.

Where did he energy come from?

Don't know. What evidence do you have for the origin of energy?