A Question for Creationists

[Smidlee]

You are one strawman away from a role in the Wizard of Oz.

You meant the Wizard of Ooze

How do fruit flies resist evolution? There are hundreds of species of fruit flies.

I don't know how they do it. Again maybe they are creationist. Scientist has done everything under the sun trying to make them evolve into evolutionist.

 

[lasthero]

I don't know how they do it.

They don't.

 

[biggles53]

That’s not my argument. If God has a cause, I simply can’t imagine what it could be.

Well done......you're sounding like a skeptic...!

Even if matter/energy has no cause, it is being generated from somewhere. God is the generator. He set the universe in motion.

Whoah....slow down cowboy..!

First of all.....who says that matter/energy needs to be "generated" ...? Why can't it have always existed...?

Secondly.....if it is, who says it must be your god that is responsible....?

You assume too much...

 

[mzungu]

Even if matter/energy has no cause, it is being generated from somewhere. God is the generator. He set the universe in motion.

Whoa! Hold your horses there bud; Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Elementary physics my good man!

You need to read up on the law of conservation of energy. Polish up on your physics because you will need it.

 

[frogman2x]

Whoa! Hold your horses there bud; Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Elementary physics my good man!

Then how did energy come into being. What youj said is only true after God created the universe.

You need to read up on the law of conservation of energy. Polish up on your physics because you will need it.

You need to read up on what omnipotense means.

Mark 20:27 - ...With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible wih God.

 

[mzungu]

Then how did energy come into being. What youj said is only true after God created the universe.

Where is your EMPIRICAL evidence for this? The Bible is not empirical evidence.

You need to read up on what omnipotense means.

I could not find it; however I do know what OMNIPOTENCE means. What is your point? You are trying show that your God is omnipotent, and I will demand you bring forth EMPIRICAL evidence for your claim (that is if you know the meaning of empirical).

Mark 20:27 - ...With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible wih God.

A book written by bronze age goat herders is irrelevant to science. I want EMPIRICAL evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

I want EMPIRICAL evidence.

[move][sign]I WANT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OR I'LL DIE![/sign]
(... in my sins. )[/move]

 

[mzungu]

[move][sign]I WANT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OR I'LL DIE![/sign]
(... in my sins. )[/move]

[move][sign]I CAN DO THAT TOO[/sign]
(hehe!!)[/move]

 

[Naraoia]

God is self-existent.

The universe is self-existent. Two can play this game...

There is not such thing as "evolutionary biology."

Yes, there is. It's the branch of biology concerned with the study of evolution. I happen to have a degree in it.

Right, we call them mutations.

Let's get the language right here. Mutations are changes in DNA sequence. Mutations cause changes in the organism.

Okay but do they cause the butterfly to become something other than a butterfly?

Why should they?

Here's another example that involves a bigger innovation: one of the changes that allowed mammals to have long pregnancies with a placenta that makes close contact between mother and baby. It's a change in the HoxA11 gene that causes HoxA11 protein to interact with another protein in a new way. HoxA11 in itself turns genes off, but together with the other protein, it's able to turn them on. Notably, one of the genes it affects is the one for prolactin hormone, which is one of the reasons a mother's body doesn't just destroy its own offspring.

(Such a complex phenomenon as a pregnancy must have involved many more mutations, of course; this is just one example.)

Help me undertand how it is a mechanism for evolution.

I'm... not sure I understand the question? These are new genes forming out of scratch. They are one of the ways new variation is generated. Evolution works from variation. Do you mean specific traits that these genes are conferring?

I have been asking how the offspring can acquire a trait for which the parents did not have the gene for. So far no one has answered.

I just gave you two papers that evidence the origin of brand new genes. If that isn't a way to acquire new traits then nothing is.

Also, see mzungu's answer. Sickle cell trait is a pretty big deal where malaria is common. It gives you malaria resistance, which people without the mutation don't have. BTW, said mutation is literally the simplest possible kind of mutation - just one single DNA base changed to another.

I have been out of evolutionary loop for many years. Care to give me you definition of a species?

A "species" is a collection of genetically related individuals with a really, really fuzzy border. It can't be easily and sharply defined; all definitions are rough approximations only suitable for some purposes. The biological species definition (ability to produce fertile offspring) works if you're studying the diversity of animals and how it came about. Morphospecies (things that look like X) work if you're into fossils. An ecological definition is good if you want to understand how ecosystems work.

Nature is too complicated to shoehorn, unfortunately.

(You might be surprised to hear that I don't actually need a species definition for my work and for most of my miscellaneous interests. What matters to me is not how you divide up life into chunks but what happens to genomes over time, how different creatures are related, how you get from A to B in evolution.)

 

[AV1611VET]

The universe is self-existent. Two can play this game...

You're not implying the universe is solid-state are you?

(Or is it static-state? whatever.)

 

[mzungu]

You're not implying the universe is solid-state are you?

(Or is it static-state? whatever.)

I don't think she was implying that AV. A solid state universe was debunked long ago. The universe is expanding and the empirical evidence is overwhelming.

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't know how they do it. Again maybe they are creationist. Scientist has done everything under the sun trying to make them evolve into evolutionist.

There are hundreds of species of fruit flies, so obviously they have evolved. What I am asking for is evidence that they resist evolution.

 

[Naraoia]

Can you imagine absolute nothing?

Human imagination has never limited the universe.

If you want to make DNA rather than genes the most importaqnt facdtor, fine but if the parents do not have a gene for bones, offsrping will not have the DNA for bones and the kid will not have bones.

Genes are made of DNA, darling. New genes form all the time. Genes change their functions all the time. I already gave you citations.

Yes, we are all the same species, but our DNA will separage us from all other species.

In what way?

With my definiton they would not be the same kind.

Your definition was "they can produce offspring". Ever heard of mules?

Our DNA will not allow it. Years ago they tried to transplant a babbon(I think) heart into a human. I think he livied 3 days.

So? Human to human transplantation only works if you give the recipient immunosuppressants for life. Humans are clearly quite capable of reproducing among themselves...

Also, FYI, baboons are not apes.

Evolutionist believe in Boobzilla; a reptile grew boobs and long hair and became hot blooded.

Now I'm imagining hairy Dimetrodons with udders. Thank you for making my day!

You tell me. You are the one who said that a horse and a donkey are two different kinds.

I think that was actually me that said that.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think she was implying that AV. A solid state universe was debunked long ago. The universe is expanding and the empirical evidence is overwhelming.

Then what's this?

The universe is self-existent. Two can play this game...

 

[Doveaman]

And since everything needs a cause, the cause of God is... Oh, wait.

God-energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed into other forms of energy.

 

[Doveaman]

Where is your evidence that God is the cause?

The evidence is the cause itself. Find the cause and you are guaranteed to find God.

 

[Doveaman]

What if matter and energy are part of Vishnu?

Even the Hindus recognize matter and energy are from God. They are just confused about who God really is.

Both Democrats and Republicans recognize Obama exists, but some of them are confused about who Obama really is.

This kind of confusion happens all the time all over the place.

 

[Doveaman]

Whoa! Hold your horses there bud; Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Elementary physics my good man!

You need to read up on the law of conservation of energy. Polish up on your physics because you will need it.

Sounds a lot like God-energy to me, eternal energy, the first form of energy from which all other forms of energy were transformed.

I think we are finally beginning to reach agreement.

 

[Doveaman]

Well done......you're sounding like a skeptic...!

I don’t see how that is.

Since I can’t imagine what the cause of a deity of pure energy could be I have no reason to believe God has a cause. If He does, we are yet to find out.

Whoah....slow down cowboy..!

First of all.....who says that matter/energy needs to be "generated" ...?

It is said that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. All physical forms of energy was transformed from God-energy.

Why can't it have always existed...?

In the form of God-energy, sure. No argument there.

Secondly.....if it is, who says it must be your god that is responsible....?

Because my God is the only God there is.

You assume too much...

It’s a fact, not an assumption. God did it. Even the first humans knew that.

 

[Doveaman]

A book written by bronze age goat herders is irrelevant to science.

That would explain why science is not about "truth", it's only about "theories".

"Jesus said, 'If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.'" - (John 8:31-32).