A Question for Creationists

[mzungu]

Ah, come in spinner...! Please tell the good folk here which of the states in the US have the highest levels of religious belief....!?

The ones in Tornado alley

 

[biggles53]

The ones in Tornado alley

Well....do Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Kentucky or Louisiana fit that description..?

Because they are both the most religious states AND amongst those in the bottom 20% of educational rankings....

 

[mzungu]

Well....do Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Kentucky or Louisiana fit that description..?

Because they are both the most religious states AND amongst those in the bottom 20% of educational rankings....

Hurricanes

 

[AV1611VET]

The problem here is that creationism has become a multi billion dollar industry in Americal...

If so, then it's the fault of those who push ToE over creationism.

You push A over B, and people are going to find a way of making money off of A.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well....do Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Kentucky or Louisiana fit that description..?

Because they are both the most religious states AND amongst those in the bottom 20% of educational rankings....

Awww ... what's wrong?

Can't they pass because they don't know the difference between Homo erectus and Homo ergaster?

Maybe they put "global flood" down on their test, instead of "local flood?"

Or maybe they couldn't remember if it was "Big Bang" or "Big Explosion?"

Or maybe they think flying squirrels actually fly?

Or maybe they thought Pluto was our 9th planet?

Or maybe they called it a "child in the womb," instead of "fetus?"

 

[biggles53]

Awww ... what's wrong?

Can't they pass because they don't know the difference between Homo erectus and Homo ergaster?

Maybe they put "global flood" down on their test, instead of "local flood?"

Or maybe they couldn't remember if it was "Big Bang" or "Big Explosion?"

Or maybe they think flying squirrels actually fly?

Or maybe they thought Pluto was our 9th planet?

Or maybe they called it a "child in the womb," instead of "fetus?"

Oh no, much broader than that.... those states have the lowest population percentages for graduate degrees, undergraduate degrees and high school diplomas...

The correlations shouldn't surprise.......those who are more highly educated tend to question things more freely.......and don't tend to build themselves a "wall of ignorance" to keep those questions at bay, as you admitted doing....

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289608000238

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh no, much broader than that.... those states have the lowest population percentages for graduate degrees, undergraduate degrees and high school diplomas...

Good -- (except for the HS diplomas, that is).

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That is not true. Muslims do not experience God. They believe that God can not interact with mere men. You would have to be a prophet for God to be able to be experienced in anyway.

I think you've missed the forest for the trees in the point I was making. My point was that many religious people claim to have knowledge of God; they claim to know his nature, his thoughts and his will. Yet many of the knowledge claims made about God are incompatible with one another and it isn't clear, at least from my perspective, how to compare such claims for their truth value.

Why did you conclude that you had no reason to believe any of these things?

Because I searched honestly and found no compelling reason to believe.

You didn't ask me this, but if you said that you said you experienced Gods...I would then have to say that you did not in fact experience God. If you are you know it.

Could I not also say the opposite to you? I could potentially insist that I know there are Gods of various kinds and you would insist that you know there is only one God. How would we resolve this dispute rationally? How would one of us demonstrate that we actually do know what we claim to know? Conviction is not the same as knowledge.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The law of inertia holds that a body in motion tends to stay in motion while a body of rest tends to stay at rest. To put a body at rest into motion a force has to be applied to it which is greater than the force of inertia. In other words, objects do not simply move in static environments unless they ARE moved. If you see something move without any natural force moving in, then that provides some evidence of an unnatural force. Having seen such a thing you might not be able to identify the unnatural force, but you certainly can know there is one. Autokinesis as anything other than an optical illusion cannot be explained scientifically, but millions have experienced it.

When you see one evidence of something unnatural or supernatural you might wonder if it could be true. When you have many, many such evidences over a lifetime you cease to wonder and accept that there are things in this world that science can never explain. When you see the power of the Lord completely change a person's life; when you see and experience things that are truly miraculous; then you know that God is real. As I said, this is a knowledge that you can never experience until you first come to God through faith.

You are assuming that I have never "come to God through faith". I have been a Christian for most of my life. I am familiar with all the feelings you describe; they're not alien to me. The question is whether they actually demonstrate what they purport to demonstrate; that is, knowledge of a deity.

 

[bhsmte]

That is not true. Muslims do not experience God. They believe that God can not interact with mere men. You would have to be a prophet for God to be able to be experienced in anyway.




Why did you conclude that you had no reason to believe any of these things?





You didn't ask me this, but if you said that you said you experienced Gods...I would then have to say that you did not in fact experience God. If you are you know it.

Personal experiences are just that, personal experiences and they do not carry over to others.

If someone claims they have personally experienced God and they believe and it makes them a better person, I say good for you and keep believing. I only have difficulty when that same person claims their personal experiences are evidence that applies to everyone and if others don't experience them, they haven't tried hard enough. Also, when believers judge others who do not believe and they make other claims without verifiable evidence, or believers completely discount or attempt to discredit science, because it may go against a long held belief.

Beyond that, I have no problem with people believing whatever they choose.

 

[AV1611VET]

If someone claims they have personally experienced God and they believe and it makes them a better person, I say good for you and keep believing.

Get the door ... it's Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones and Shoko Asahara.

 

[KWCrazy]

First of all Humans ARE apes. We belong to the Great African Ape family.

Man's classification, not God's. God created man in His own image. God is not an ape. However, the Bible never states where Cain's wife came from, so it's entirely possible that YOU might be an ape. I'm not. I was created by God.

Secondly we did not evolve from apes; we have a common ancestor with our ape cousins.

The closest my ancestors ever came to apes was feeding them on the ark. Again, I can't speak for yours.

By the way, Hitler was a social Darwinist. That's simply a historical fact.

 

[KWCrazy]

This whole issue of creationism was born in America and is slowly being propagated throughout the world especially in the poorer regions where science education is lacking.

You're deliberately making a false statement.
Moses was a creationist.
Jesus was a creationist.
Adam was a creationist.

 

[bhsmte]

You're deliberately making a false statement.
Moses was a creationist.
Jesus was a creationist.
Adam was a creationist.

Correct. At least what men wrote in the NT states Jesus backed the OT as the word of God and that it should be followed.

 

[AV1611VET]

The closest my ancestors ever came to apes was feeding them on the ark. Again, I can't speak for yours.

ZING!

 

[KWCrazy]

You are assuming that I have never "come to God through faith". I have been a Christian for most of my life. I am familiar with all the feelings you describe; they're not alien to me. The question is whether they actually demonstrate what they purport to demonstrate; that is, knowledge of a deity.

If you never knew God you were never a Christian.
If you DID know God, then you know you're lying now, because He exists.
God didn't go anywhere. You did.

 

[bhsmte]

If you never knew God you were never a Christian.
If you DID know God, then you know you're lying now, because He exists.
God didn't go anywhere. You did.

Predictable response from christians who simply can't bear the fact that someone may have believed at some point and chose not to any longer because of acquired knowledge.

You gotta love christians ability to judge everyone.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If you never knew God you were never a Christian.
If you DID know God, then you know you're lying now, because He exists.
God didn't go anywhere. You did.

I was a Christian, just like you. You don't get to judge the sincerity of my former religious beliefs.

 

[bhsmte]

The closest my ancestors ever came to apes was feeding them on the ark. Again, I can't speak for yours.

By the way, Hitler was a social Darwinist. That's simply a historical fact.

Hitler was also mentally ill.

 

[KWCrazy]

Predictable response from christians who simply can't bear the fact that someone may have believed at some point and chose not to any longer because of acquired knowledge.

You gotta love christians ability to judge everyone.

Hey, YOU'RE the one claiming a God with whom you once had a personal relationship doesn't exist. Don't blame me if that sounds foolish. I can understand how a person could loose their faith and even become bitter at God, but claiming He doesn't exist has only one of two explanations:
A. You never encountered God.
B. You're lying.

It's kind of like me saying that I played football for four years but I never met a quarterback and now i don't believe there ever was one.

That, by the way, is NOT a judgement of you. It's an observation of the things you post. I don't make judgments about anyone on the internet; only about their posts. For all I know you could be my Aunt Edith.