A question about unbelievers sin

[Restless heart]

From what I understand, God is in control of who is born and the details of their creation such as when, where, how, etc.
He also has perfect for knowledge, I believe, since he is omniscient, and not time bound like we are. So He knows how each person will respond to each situation he/she faces. He knows if a specific circumstance will draw a person to believe in Jesus, or if a specific circumstance will create a negative or evil response from someone.
So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

From what I understand, God is in control of who is born and the details of their creation such as when, where, how, etc.
He also has perfect for knowledge, I believe, since he is omniscient, and not time bound like we are. So He knows how each person will respond to each situation he/she faces. He knows if a specific circumstance will draw a person to believe in Jesus, or if a specific circumstance will create a negative or evil response from someone.
So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

Did God create people as robots or with free choice to choose their own direction in life?

 

[Restless heart]

Yes, we have free will. But God knows what choices we will make and still places us where He does. Could He not choose to place unbelieving people in another time/place where they would ultimately believe?

 

[dreadnought]

From what I understand, God is in control of who is born and the details of their creation such as when, where, how, etc.
He also has perfect for knowledge, I believe, since he is omniscient, and not time bound like we are. So He knows how each person will respond to each situation he/she faces. He knows if a specific circumstance will draw a person to believe in Jesus, or if a specific circumstance will create a negative or evil response from someone.
So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

I disagree that the Lord knows ahead of time what decisions we will make. He is a good predictor, but he's not locked in on his predictions.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, we have free will. But God knows what choices we will make and still places us where He does. Could He not choose to place unbelieving people in another time/place where they would ultimately believe?

It's not a matter of time and place. Even a person who had never heard the gospel has the opportunity to see God in creation and acknowledge His existence and essential virtue (see Romans 1).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I disagree that the Lord knows ahead of time what decisions we will make. He is a good predictor, but he's not locked in on his predictions.

God does not want conscripts in His kingdom. He wants willing volunteers who choose freely to receive Christ as Saviour. His attitude toward everyone is, "Choose you this day whom you will serve", and take the consequences of your choice.

The problem is that too many churches are depending on their programmes instead of trusting the power of the Holy Spirit, and therefore are preaching the gospel in the flesh instead of the Spirit. Jesus has come to seek and save the lost, but too many churches don't have a passion for the lost. They are too satisfied with their self-indulgent services and expect unbelievers to come to them instead of them going out into the highways and byways to seek the lost.

General Booth went to Sydney Australia and preached in a big convention, but he was deeply disappointed because he could see that 99% were already Christian believers. He told the leaders that this is not what he came for. So another venue for a further meeting was arranged in the poorest, most sinful part of the city and it was packed out with drug dealers, alcoholics, prostitutes, wife beaters, child abusers and other dregs of society who would never darken the door of a church. He got many more souls saved at that meeting than at the bigger convention. That was the character of General Booth and that is why the power of the Holy Spirit worked with him to get thousands of souls saved through his ministry.

 

[Dave G.]

He also knows if a person is broken enough that person then may still turn to Him, to Jesus Christ Lord and Savior, like I did back in 1979. I didn't have to make that connection with the Son, I had free will not to and to continue on my previous path to destruction.

 

[dreadnought]

God does not want conscripts in His kingdom. He wants willing volunteers who choose freely to receive Christ as Saviour. His attitude toward everyone is, "Choose you this day whom you will serve", and take the consequences of your choice.

The problem is that too many churches are depending on their programmes instead of trusting the power of the Holy Spirit, and therefore are preaching the gospel in the flesh instead of the Spirit. Jesus has come to seek and save the lost, but too many churches don't have a passion for the lost. They are too satisfied with their self-indulgent services and expect unbelievers to come to them instead of them going out into the highways and byways to seek the lost.

General Booth went to Sydney Australia and preached in a big convention, but he was deeply disappointed because he could see that 99% were already Christian believers. He told the leaders that this is not what he came for. So another venue for a further meeting was arranged in the poorest, most sinful part of the city and it was packed out with drug dealers, alcoholics, prostitutes, wife beaters, child abusers and other dregs of society who would never darken the door of a church. He got many more souls saved at that meeting than at the bigger convention. That was the character of General Booth and that is why the power of the Holy Spirit worked with him to get thousands of souls saved through his ministry.

It's hard to believe anyone won't willing volunteer to serve in the Lord's kingdom once they realize what it's all about. All we have to do is repent of our sin and paradise is ours (Matt 4:17).

 

[SkyWriting]

Did God create people as robots or with free choice to choose their own direction in life?

Neither one. You feel as if you have a fee choice in everything and God only knows
what choices you are going to make. And He planned accordingly.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Neither one. You feel as if you have a fee choice in everything and God only knows
what choices you are going to make. And He planned accordingly.

The Scripture says that a man may plan his way, but God guides his steps. Although He is not willing that any should perish, most will reject Christ and suffer the penalty for it. God does not take over a person's will, but He will do all He can to make the person aware of the Gospel of Christ. This would mean that those who end up being lost are those who deliberately choose to reject Christ in spite of everything that God tries to do to get them to make the right choice.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's hard to believe anyone won't willing volunteer to serve in the Lord's kingdom once they realize what it's all about. All we have to do is repent of our sin and paradise is ours (Matt 4:17).

There is no excuse for anyone in our nations not to know the elements of the gospel of Christ. Anyone can go to any church and hear all about it. They can watch Youtube and see many video clips explaining the gospel fully. Multitudes of unbelievers have attended evangelistic meetings and heard the gospel clearly, but they have walked out still rejecting Christ. Demons know the Bible from cover to cover and know all about the gospel, but they will never repent and be converted to Christ. The god of this world has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, lest they should see the real meaning of the Gospel. There are religious people in most churches who know all about the Bible and the gospel and yet remain unsaved because they just give lip service to God but their hearts are far from Him. The Pharisees heard all of Jesus' teaching and saw His miracles, but the majority of them refused to believe on Him.

No one can receive the spirit of repentance and saving faith unless there is a specific work of the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is always working to draw people to Christ, but in spite of all that the majority of people in our nations are refusing to listen to Him, even though they know all about the gospel.

 

[Ancient of Days]

It's hard to believe anyone won't willing volunteer to serve in the Lord's kingdom once they realize what it's all about. All we have to do is repent of our sin and paradise is ours (Matt 4:17).

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? Did you turn and repent every time God nudged you before you were saved? I highly doubt it...

 

[dreadnought]

Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? Did you turn and repent every time God nudged you before you were saved? I highly doubt it...

I might have failed every once in a while.

 

[Dave-W]

I disagree that the Lord knows ahead of time what decisions we will make. He is a good predictor, but he's not locked in on his predictions.

?????
Really? He knew every thought of every person and the path of every electron before He created anything.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

?????
Really? He knew every thought of every person and the path of every electron before He created anything.

God knows everything that can be known, but how can anyone know something that does not exist yet? The future is created by the decisions we make in the present. It can appear that God knows the future, but what He knows of the future is the future that He has planned and who organises events and decisions to make it happen.

 

[RDKirk]

God knows everything that can be known, but how can anyone know something that does not exist yet? The future is created by the decisions we make in the present. It can appear that God knows the future, but what He knows of the future is the future that He has planned and who organises events and decisions to make it happen.

Are you saying that we can catch God by surprise by doing something He has not planned?

"Oi vay, I never saw that coming!"

Is that what you're saying can happen?

 

[RDKirk]

I disagree that the Lord knows ahead of time what decisions we will make. He is a good predictor, but he's not locked in on his predictions.

You seem to be saying that God is merely a very good bookie.

 

[dreadnought]

?????
Really? He knew every thought of every person and the path of every electron before He created anything.

He knows all our thoughts as we think them, but I don't think he knows them ahead of time. The paths of electrons are probably predictable, conforming to physical laws.

 

[dreadnought]

You seem to be saying that God is merely a very good bookie.

No, I'm saying that I do not believe in predestination.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Are you saying that we can catch God by surprise by doing something He has not planned?

"Oi vay, I never saw that coming!"

Is that what you're saying can happen?

Read through the Old Testament and see if there are any places where it seemed that God did not expect an event to happen the way it did. For example, when Adam and Eve sinned and were hiding from God, why did He ask, "Adam, where are you?" If He knew where Adam was and what he had done? Why was God disappointed and angry when He discovered that they had disobeyed Him if He knew in advance that it was going to happen? Why did Abraham think that God would change His mind about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah if there were 10 righteous men living in it, if God's mind couldn't be changed from what He had already planned and knew what was going to happen? Why didn't God warn Moses about the people worshiping the golden calf if He knew it was going to happen? Why did Jesus marvel at the Centurion's faith if He knew it in advance? Why did Jesus get frustrated at His disciples' lack of faith in not being able to cast out the demon if He knew about it in advance? How come He chose Judas if He knew in advance that the guy was a bad egg?

I reckon that people get so super spiritual about God that they leave their brains behind. No wonder few people really get to grips with God in prayer because they so fatalistically believe that God knows what is going to happen in the future, and that they can't change His mind anyway, so why bother to persevere in prayer to get Him to being revival, save souls, etc. That is, if He knows in advance who is going to choose for Christ and who is going to reject Him.

God knowing every detail of the future is a philosophical concept, not a Biblical one. Show me any Biblical reference where God predicted the future, and I will show you that He planned it that way and arranged to fulfill what He planned, in the same way that we can plan a project and then work to complete it.

An experienced pastor friend of mine was praying about an issue and told the Lord that he didn't know what to do about it. The Lord answered him and said, "I don't know either. You do what seems right to you." My friend did that, and the issue was resolved. Why would God lie (and God cannot lie) to my friend if He really did know how to resolve the issue?

Some "spiritual" folks, if they had another brain, it would be lonely!