A question about unbelievers sin

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I can't accept that God would predestine anyone to refuse His love. I do believe there are some predestined for heaven, A special task for them to do. I think He equips them with special graces to accomplish the task. We see Moses equipped with special graces. The prophets too.

Hi, I may be misunderstanding your point, but if only SOME are predestined for heaven, then by definition al others are predestined for something else (hell?).

I don't think that is right. For those that are predestined for Heaven, they need no salvation (since they are predestined for heaven) and the others, it won't matter what they do, they are predestined for hell (?)

Perhaps it is better to see predestination as closer to a 'free ticket to heaven' that we either keep or throw away. Thus everyone is born predestined for heaven, but depending on choices and circumstances many throw that away as they go through life (and some, like me , get a new free ticket )

Thus our end goal is known to God, not that we will necessarily take it up. This allows both a coherent definition of predestination and free will.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

There is an eternal decree, but man has no knowledge of it and therefore does not make decisions based on it. Man chooses what he wants based on his desires

James 1:13-15

 

[Mountainmanbob]

So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

Romans 8:9 explains it pretty well God can make one for wrath and one for good. We are the clay and He is the potter. It's not polite for the clay to question the potter.

As we remember the discussion between God and Job -- where were you Job when I made the oceans and the seas and the fish and the sky and the stars in other words -- you little man should not be questioning your God.

M-Bob

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Romans 8:9 explains it pretty well God can make one for wrath and one for good. We are the clay and He is the potter. It's not polite for the clay to question the potter.

As we remember the discussion between God and Job -- where were you Job when I made the oceans and the seas and the fish and the sky and the stars in other words -- you little man should not be questioning your God.

M-Bob

On the other hand Job is commended for his questioning of God and not taking the pat answers by his various counsellors for granted. We need to understand that clay cannot talk, nor think nor do anything. Take the analogy too far and it misses the point that was originally being made.

God is moulding us but we have free will and can get out of that mould and be our own shape... at our own peril.

 

[JoeP222w]

From what I understand, God is in control of who is born and the details of their creation such as when, where, how, etc.
He also has perfect for knowledge, I believe, since he is omniscient, and not time bound like we are. So He knows how each person will respond to each situation he/she faces. He knows if a specific circumstance will draw a person to believe in Jesus, or if a specific circumstance will create a negative or evil response from someone.
So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

Romans 9:13-23 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

 

[JoeP222w]

I disagree that the Lord knows ahead of time what decisions we will make. He is a good predictor, but he's not locked in on his predictions.

That would be Open Theism.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

From what I understand, God is in control of who is born and the details of their creation such as when, where, how, etc.
He also has perfect for knowledge, I believe, since he is omniscient, and not time bound like we are. So He knows how each person will respond to each situation he/she faces. He knows if a specific circumstance will draw a person to believe in Jesus, or if a specific circumstance will create a negative or evil response from someone.
So, my question is: how can unbelievers be held responsible for their sin when He made them and placed them in those circumstances even though He knew that they would harden their hearts against Him and end up going to hell?

Romans chapter one. People KNOW that there's a GOD, and that HE REQUIRES SOMETHING, that they have no desire to Give. so they are without excuse.