A question about communication with God from a former Muslim

[Aaron112]

YHVH the Creator of all things is watching to see if there is anyone seeking Him Today.

 

[JohanHoffman]

Good morning! I pray your having a wonderful day and your family well. I will make this a longer post to answer the points that you might want to understand better. I am trying to be complete in my explanation.

First I would ask if you listened to the video I posted above about the Incarnation? Did you have the opportunity to listen and could you understand the Pastors speaking?

To speak on the topic I believe you want to speak of:

The Qur'an is a book which came after the Holy Scriptures, by about 600 years after the resurrection - as we already know.

By that time Christianity was fairly widespread in much of the region. Various Christians believers were trading and various other activities like sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ as they went about their lives.

View attachment 358683

The above in dark blue is what was mainly Christian in the region by 325 AD. And the light blue is what was mainly Christian by 600 AD.

The argument made in the Qur'an is that Jesus was a Spirit from God rather than the Spirit of God. Not the Incarnation of God.

This is, to Christians, a horrible blasphemy against our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. (We do not get upset for this but rather choose to correct any misunderstanding in love.)

In order to determine the matter we can look at both Scripture itself and the Prophets.

We believe the Bible (all the Books of the Bible) is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eye witnesses during the lifetime of other eye witnesses. They report supernatural events which occurred in fulfillment of specific prophecies and who claim their writings are Divine in nature rather than of human origin.

In 2 Peter 1:16-22 it is written:

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention has to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed."

Words such as this were repeated in front of many large crowds, during a time there were still hundreds of living eye witnesses of Christ's life, death and resurrection.

Anyone in the crowds back then, had the opportunity to ask other eye witnesses for confirmation of these events, which of course many did.

Luke from the Gospels was a physician and an historian who was tasked to do just that, go to speak with the disciples and others about what they had seen and heard in order to know the truth accurately. The Book of Luke is recorded in the Bible.

Luke 1:1-4

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.

The Bible itself, though written by over 40 people from multiple cultures across the span of 1500 years and tells one singular story from beginning to end.

And the story it tells is wholly complete. Nothing can be added to it without destroying the story that Scripture is telling us.

And the story it tells rests on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. He is the Cornerstone holding it altogether, for He is Lord, Savior, High Priest and King. During His first advent He was God incarnate, come to save humanity.

We have a division in the Bible, the first portion is called the Old Testament, and the Second portion is called the New Testament.

The word Testament here can also be translated as Covenant.

It's a legal term denoting the two main Covenants - legal agreements - God made with His people thoughout time.

In order to bring forth the Messiah God chose the Hebrews through Abraham. He chose the Hebrews because they were lowly and weak, the least among us, in order to show a picture to the world of ourselves, and also to show His Power and Glory.

But for the Praise of His Glory He raised them up to bring forth the Messiah, one like us who could connect with our pain, in our humanity, but whom, like God, could do what we could not and live in perfect accordance with the law, in order to free us from the bondage of sin, and pay the price for our sin in our stead, being both the Just, and the Justifier.

The old Covenant in which the Messianic law was added for their sin, was to teach us that we all fall short of His perfect Righteousness; that apart from Him we can do nothing good.

The law of God requires perfect righteousness in act, attitude and nature. I earlier added an attachment in this thread in which sin was thereby defined and explained so I won't expound upon that further.

Christ's life, death and subsequent resurrection lived that life and died that death for us that we could not live, in order to draw ALL the kinds of men (Jew and Gentile alike, all the nations) Jesus Christ brings us into the New Covenant now. He cut them off, to bring us in, equally. His resurrection from the dead proves all is accomplished.

There was something called a dividing wall in the Jewish Temple that separated the Jews from the Gentiles.

In real life, Jesus is the tearing down of that wall of separation. It's the wall that separates Jew from Gentile first, and Jesus also represents the rending or tearing of the veil that separates man from God. He becomes for us all, reconciliation in and under the New Covenant.

The Jews were cut off from the Old Covenant upon Jesus' Death, and the New Covenant in Christ was inaugurated on the day of Pentacost, in which all people - Jew and Gentiles alike, were invited into the New Covenant from that day forward as brothers. (Christ is seen here in His humanity shown to us as our joined elder brother, we are adopted as sons, equal before God, brothers in covenant when we believe in Jesus, who is the only Door. Our inheritance is salvation, and glorification with Christ in Heaven for eternity.)

When Jesus says I am the Way, The Truth, and The Life, no one comes to the Father but through Me...

He is the door we go through, all of us, to know God.

The entire Bible, from Beginning to End, tells of Him. Everything from Genesis 1:1 to the last word in the book of Revelation is the Revelation of God, the 1 Triune God, through the Person and Work of Christ and His Holy Spirit.

The Bible tells us about the New Covenant from the Prophet Jeremiah 31:33-34.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.

And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

This has been the Covenant everyone who calls themselves Christian lives under for the last 2000 years. The New Testament explains the New Covenant.

You enter into the Covenant when you believe on Christ for salvation, as shown us in Scripture:

Romans 10:9-10: "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

Acts 16:30, 31: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved".

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

I pray this wasn't too long and I do hope I properly understood what your question was. It took me 35 minutes to edit, so if you read in email then it's slightly different, I tried being more clear.

Hi
Thank you so much for the thorough explanation. First, I wanna apologize for taking that long to reply.
Secondly, Yes, I have watched the first attached video about the incarnation but I did not understand it. Against, I have listened to it with filtered glasses, and that made me realize that I need some clarification and answers about the triune God, why some of the quoted excerpts from the bible sometimes say to Pray to God, that Jesus is God, then in another example he is the Son. I am very confused by these. It's very difficult when all your life, you are fed with God does not beget or begotten, has no sons, Jesus is not his son but a prophet, and so on.
You mentioned you were a Muslim, perhaps you can share relevant answers?

Thank you!

 

[JohanHoffman]

Hello again Johan, I write to you to clarify your question about having access to GOD without a mediator I hope I wrote it clearly, let me know if you have further questions;

Under the Old Covenant, Moses acted as the mediator between God and the people of Israel. God gave His laws, including the Ten Commandments, through Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20:18-21, Deuteronomy 5:5). The people were afraid to approach God directly because of His glory and holiness, so they asked Moses to speak to God on their behalf.

This separation from God’s presence was further emphasized in the structure of the temple or tabernacle. In the temple, there was a veil (a thick curtain) that separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place (also known as the Holy of Holies). The Most Holy Place represented the very presence of God, and no one could enter it except the high priest, and even he could only enter once a year on the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16:2, Hebrews 9:7). This veil was a constant reminder that access to God’s presence was restricted under the Old Covenant because of sin.

However, when Jesus came and died for the sins of the world, everything changed. Jesus became the new and perfect mediator of the New Covenant, offering Himself as the ultimate sacrifice for sin, making direct access to God possible. In Matthew 27:50-51 (NKJV), it is written: “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split.”

The tearing of the temple veil is extremely significant. It was not torn by human hands but from top to bottom, signifying that God Himself had removed the barrier that separated humanity from His presence. Through Jesus’ sacrifice, the way into God’s presence was opened for all people, not just the high priest or a chosen mediator like Moses.

This truth is explained in Hebrews 10:19-22 (NKJV): “Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.”

Jesus’ death and His role as mediator provide us with direct access to God. We no longer need an earthly priest or mediator like Moses because Jesus Himself is our High Priest. He intercedes for us in the presence of God. In 1 Timothy 2:5 (NKJV), it says: “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” Jesus, being fully God and fully man, bridges the gap between sinful humanity and a holy God.

Under the New Covenant, believers have the privilege of direct communion with God through Jesus. This was something the people of Israel did not have under the Old Covenant because their sins had not yet been fully atoned for. Now, through Jesus’ sacrifice, we are cleansed, forgiven, and invited to come boldly before God’s throne. As it says in Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV): “Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”

To summarize, under the Old Covenant, Moses served as a mediator, and access to God was limited. The temple veil symbolized this separation. When Jesus died, the veil was torn, signifying that the barrier between God and humanity was removed. Jesus is now the mediator of the New Covenant, and through Him, we have direct access to God. His sacrifice opened the way for all who believe in Him to draw near to God with confidence and assurance.

Blessings.

God bless you for this post.
I realized two things as I read your answer, One is that, yes, I learned that Moses was the mediator to his people and - I am referencing Quran here- they often always asked him to speak to his God to do this and that and to pray for them. The other point is about the veil itself, I have always learned that the veil still exists and only very few select people have direct access to connect with God, visions, and such.
What I also realized is that we were taught a lot of misconceptions about Christianity and thus, my understanding is very poor. I feel like I have to go to ground zero and forget everything I have learned or heard.

You know, when I contemplate all of this or throughout the day, about what is wrong and what is right and I pray to God to just bring me closer to the truth, to show me anything, I realized that since childhood, I have been walking to this path, to His path.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

God bless you for this post.
I realized two things as I read your answer, One is that, yes, I learned that Moses was the mediator to his people and - I am referencing Quran here- they often always asked him to speak to his God to do this and that and to pray for them. The other point is about the veil itself, I have always learned that the veil still exists and only very few select people have direct access to connect with God, visions, and such.
What I also realized is that we were taught a lot of misconceptions about Christianity and thus, my understanding is very poor. I feel like I have to go to ground zero and forget everything I have learned or heard.

You know, when I contemplate all of this or throughout the day, about what is wrong and what is right and I pray to God to just bring me closer to the truth, to show me anything, I realized that since childhood, I have been walking to this path, to His path.

it is good that you see the truth that God has given you I am glad for this. Sometimes as you say it is best to start from the beginning. I too had to start again, I was raised a catholic and it is a bit different from the truth the bible teaches, so I had to start again by reading the bible and from there my understanding increased.

Blessings.

 

[Aaron112]

I pray to God to just bring me closer to the truth, to show me anything, I realized that since childhood, I have been walking to this path, to His path.

Gradually as we seek the truth , and keep seeking the truth, not as if we have found it and that's that, God's Promise is that He Reveals the Truth to us (as infants all our lives)....
and the most difficult may be as you felt:

What I also realized is that we were taught a lot of misconceptions about Christianity and thus, my understanding is very poor. I feel like I have to go to ground zero and forget everything I have learned or heard.

just as Jesus says, if we want to learn the truth, if we want to follow Jesus, we must "go to ground zero" and give up everything, "forget everything I have learned or heard"..... yes, necessary!

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hi
Thank you so much for the thorough explanation. First, I wanna apologize for taking that long to reply.
Secondly, Yes, I have watched the first attached video about the incarnation but I did not understand it. Against, I have listened to it with filtered glasses, and that made me realize that I need some clarification and answers about the triune God, why some of the quoted excerpts from the bible sometimes say to Pray to God, that Jesus is God, then in another example he is the Son. I am very confused by these. It's very difficult when all your life, you are fed with God does not beget or begotten, has no sons, Jesus is not his son but a prophet, and so on.
You mentioned you were a Muslim, perhaps you can share relevant answers?

Thank you!

Hello again, I pray your well.

Don't worry about the time. Take the time you need. This can be a more difficult concept to understand so I'm trying to be careful with my speech. With my words I'm trying to paint the picture so you can understand more clearly.

Between the members of the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus the Son, and Holy Spirit) there has eternally been equality in importance, personhood and deity, yet they each have different roles. They exist concurrently in different roles as 1.

Though all three are equal in power and all other attributes, God the Father has the greater authority and takes a headship or leadership role among the person's of the Trinity.

In creation the Father speaks and initiates, but the work of creation is carried out by the Son (Jesus) and is sustained by the continuing presence of the Holy Spirit.

it's one act, that of creation, carried out by One Triune God, each member having different roles.

In redemption, the Father sends the Son into the world and the Son comes and is obedient to the Father and dies to pay for our sins. After the Son ascended into heaven, the Holy Spirit comes to equip and power the church. (John 16:7; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:1-36)

The Father doesn't die on the cross nor is the Son poured out on the day of Pentacost, but it's still one singular act by one singular Triune Godhead - the redemption of mankind.

We were created in the image of God and so we see an example of equality of personhood taking on different headship roles reflected in our marriages. Though men and women are equal in personhood before God, God nonetheless has given the man the role of headship inside our marriages.

Paul makes this parallel with the Trinity explicit in Scripture when he says "I want you to understand the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband and the head of Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3

Here we see men and women, who are equal in personhood, taking on different roles, one having the headship role, as a reflection of the Triune God.

(The woman is here in marriage also shown to be reflective of the church in submission to Christ, creating a fuller picture for you).

So, while Jesus is obedient to God (the Father) He is still equal in His divine nature. Therefore, Jesus prays to God in His obedient role as Son, though He is the second person of the Trinity.

The Holy Scriptures tell us:

"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:6

When we pray, the entire Triune Godhead is present and active within our prayer, though we only make our addresses most notably to God, because God is one.

"Our Father, who is in Heaven, Holy is your Name" - are the first words to the prayer that Jesus taught to us to pray.

We start our prayers with recognition: First we recognize the head, God the 'Father', then we praise Him - "Holy is Your Name." the way God as Father praises Himself, through His Name.

But God's Name isn't just a word it's THE Word of God, the Messiah Jesus.

It's a bit of going back to the Old Testament so I won't bore you too much but it does help to know that Jesus is the Name of God as He is the perfect reflection of God.

How do you get to know someone? First it's through their name. Hi, my name is x. This is how you introduce yourself.

The story of history in the Old Testament is the story of God revealing Himself to us, little by little. Getting to know more about Him as time goes on.

In Jesus Christ He named or revealed Himself to mankind. Jesus is the perfect reflection of all His glorious Attributes. First coming as a man to save, out of love, then later He will come a second time in all His Glory.

Christ is the Revelation of God to man, the Name of God - Yahweh, from the Old Testament is our Lord and Savior Jesus.

As we see in the book of Hebrews:

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs." Hebrews 1:1-4

I know using many words for the same thing can be confusing, but all names are in some way descriptive of His nature.

It's like you being husband, father, son, student, friend, brother, Jesus is often described as Son of Man, Son of God, Messiah, Christ, High Priest, God in the flesh etc.

Everyone can be described using multiple words depending on what aspect of that person we want to convey at the moment.

God wanted most to convey His Love through Christ Jesus when revealing His perfect Nature, to mankind.

It is written:

"I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices"

He is long-suffering and desires us to know Him in these later days through the revelation of His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus is the fullness of God in the form of perfect man. As Jesus said:

"Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works." John 14:9-10

Jesus is God introducing Himself to mankind, in a form we can relate to, and a form that can also relate to us.

As Scripture says:

"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:6

God in the fullness of His Glory is not something easily understood. But He's perfectly understood in the saving person and work of Jesus Christ.

I will stop here, but happy to continue on. This helped me to understand His Triune nature better, so I pray it's helping you.

I will also advise you to pray, just talk to God like you speak to a Father. You may ask Him to open your heart to His understanding and His truth.

There's an open invitation from Him to do so. To come to Him in order to know Him. Seek and you shall find if you seek with your whole heart.

 

[JohanHoffman]

Truth to us (as infants all our lives)....

Ever since I was in school, I had christian friends all over, in a majority Muslim country. I always visited them at their homes and their display of Cross and Jesus, always drew me in. I would walk with them to the church (never entered cause Muslim neighbors who knew me wouldn't let me enter) and at our school, they taught us religion classes and usually Christians went to another class, I went with them and even the teacher knew I wasn't one of them, she let me stay with them. I still remember what was said in that class. God has His ways to show us.

 

[ViaCrucis]

First of all,
I am glad to be here and learn more from you all.
I want to just make something clear before I ask the question, so you understand my point.
For the past 27 years, I was fed by my family and community how there is No God but One, that God has no sons, that God has no mediators. God is not human, has no human characteristics, can't be seen or heard but communicated to directly by praying and through dreams. It's very difficult for me to not question some points that goes against what I have been taught.

I grew up in a Muslim household yet I feel very disconnected from it. When I read more about the Christian faith and Jesus, I feel good but like I said, there are points that it's hard for me to process. it's not me judging, it's just like a slap in the face.
So my question is, why do we need a mediator to connect with God? When we pray to Jesus, are we praying to Him or through Him? I found this from "How to Be a Christian" in this forum :

"When you receive Christ into your heart you become a child of God, and have the privilege of talking to Him in prayer at any time about anything. The Christian life is a personal relationship to God through Jesus Christ. And best of all, it is a relationship that will last for all eternity."

it confused me more, because it says that because Jesus sacrificed himself for us, we were able to talk to God directly through prayers at any time but at the end, it again says to have a personal relationship to God through Jesus Christ.
Maybe by time and learning more about Christianity and the Gospel, I will get my answers but right now, I would like to hear more about that. Maybe I am missing something.

There are examples of God directly communicating with people in various ways in the stories of the Bible; and they are very diverse. God has spoken through supernatural manifestations called Theophanies, He has also sent His angels on occasion to speak for Him, and there are the ancient Prophets of Israel.

In Christianity we understand that the chief and most important way God has come and spoken to us is in and through Jesus Christ. God made truly and fully human. So Jesus doesn't merely speak on God's behalf, Jesus is Himself God.

So Jesus says, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" and "If you have known Me you have known the Father also". Jesus is, therefore, God's Revelation, God's Word, God Himself.

The idea of having a relationship to God is, admittedly, more complicated than simply "God and me hanging out", it speaks to the ways in which God meets us both invisibly and tangibly through His grace. When a sinner (and we are all sinners) is brought into communion with God, by God's grace, through faith, they have a new way of relating to God--they are no longer strangers and enemies of God, but now they are God's child. The way we talk about this can get pretty deep, and involves a lot of discussion about the doctrine of the Trinity and how it relates to all areas of Christian life. It speaks of now knowing God as Father, because we are united mystically to Jesus Christ, God's Son; and since ware in Christ we have His Father as our Father also; and God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, also lives and dwells in us both personally as individuals and corporately together as God's Church. So a personal relationship with God means that there is a new way in which we relate to God, because of Jesus, God is no longer far away, but near. Because we are in Christ, because the Holy Spirit lives in us, we have a new identity, a new way of being human, a new relationship toward and with God--one that is centered upon Jesus, who Jesus is, what Jesus is, and what Jesus has done for us.

This does not mean that we hear God talk to us. It means that we have new kinds of ears, ears that hear God through the preaching of the Gospel; ears that hear God in the Sacraments (Baptism, Holy Communion, etc); ears that hear God when we read the Bible or hear the Bible read out loud. It's that, in these things, God is speaking to us. Not as a disembodied voice, either out loud, or in our head, or a feeling we feel; but rather new ears of faith, that when we hear the message of God's kindness and love, we recognize that this is God speaking to us; when we come together to celebrate Holy Communion, God is right here speaking, sharing, and giving Himself to us. That when we read and hear the Bible, it is not mere words on a page, but living words which continue to speak to us, to bring us comfort, to encourage and build up our faith, and to command us to live righteous lives toward our neighbor in love.

It's faith. And not just in some generic sense. This faith is alive. It's not something we can just conjure up on our own by our own power; God Himself works, creates, and strengthens this faith in us--and it continues to look toward Jesus, to trust in Jesus, to depend on Jesus--to know God in Jesus. To hear God in His word and in His Sacraments. To encounter and be on the receiving end of His continued and continual mercy and grace, His kindness which loves us, and rescues us, saving us. Ultimately calling us--and accomplishing for us--the great hope of eternal life and of resurrection from the dead. We are forgiven of all our sins, for Christ by His death and resurrection has rendered sin dead, and has put death itself to death, and He lives. He lives, having risen from the dead, and ascended into the heavens, seated in glory with all power and authority at the right hand of God the Father; from whence He also will return some day as Judge of all. And by our new life in Him, through faith, we have our own identity with this same Jesus who reigns in the heavens, who has already conquered sin and death, and in the end we shall pass through Judgment into life, there is resurrection, eternal life, and the renewal of all creation.

So we know God, and who God is, in Jesus; and Jesus is ours and we live in Him, by God's mercy. As we encounter God in His Word and Sacraments; and He works and creates and strengthens faith in us to lean on these things, to confess and believe all these things, and to trust Jesus who has accomplished all these things for us.

-CryptoLutheran