A Partial List of 7th Day Assemblies

Bond-servant of Christ

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Hmm... Nope every commandment is repeated in the new testament even God's 4th commandment (scripture support here linked)

you obviously don't, or rather, don't want to know, what the Bible actually says! As an SDA it is ONLY you guys who have got it right, and the rest are hell-bound, as per SDA "theology". Ignatius who lived when the Apostles did, and would have known first-hand, what the Church actually did, is completely disregarded by you guys, because it proves that what you believe about Sunday as a Day of worship, is 100% WRONG!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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you obviously don't, or rather, don't want to know, what the Bible actually says! As an SDA it is ONLY you guys who have got it right, and the rest are hell-bound, as per SDA "theology". Ignatius who lived when the Apostles did, and would have known first-hand, what the Church actually did, is completely disregarded by you guys, because it proves that what you believe about Sunday as a Day of worship, is 100% WRONG!

Hmm nope. I just posted what God's Word says here (scripture support here linked) and God's Word disagrees with your words which are not God's Word but yours. Of course you are free to believe as you wish but your argument is with God not me with whose Words you disagree with. I prefer Gods Word as shown in the linked post that disagrees with your words. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9. So I guess we will agree to disagree.
 
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BobRyan

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you obviously don't, or rather, don't want to know, what the Bible actually says! As an SDA it is ONLY you guys who have got it right,

repeatedly claiming that the many 7th day groups on page one of this thread don't exist - except for SDAs -- is not a compelling form of argument -- because as we all know the Acts 21 chapter proves the existence of 7th day Sabbath keeping Messianic Jewish Christians in the first century.

How is this not incredibly obvious??
 
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BobRyan

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HARK! said:
Since then the numbers of us have been growing at an amazing rate..

Well, I'd be interested to know if that's true or not.

Indeed the Seventh-day Adventist church was only at about 3.4 Million in 1980. It was smaller than the Southern Baptist Association. But it doubled in size every 12 to 15 and now it is at around every 15 to 20 years -- so then in 2019 it was at around 22 million member world wide.

Christianity Today called it the fastest growing and 5th largest Christian denomination in the world in Feb of 2015.

And of course it is only one of the many groups listed in the first few posts of this thread.

One thing is for sure - there were not that many Sabbath keeping groups back in the 1860's when the SDA denomination was organized.



It's almost guaranteed to be true, if you include everyone in "the Hebrew roots" movement, which in the last 20 years is including many Pentecostals and "nondenominational" Charismatics (people who are into rabbi Cahn of Harbinger fame).

Amen to that
 
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SabbathBlessings

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[QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 75599930, member: 235244"
by contrast in the very next chapter -- Rev 14 we find this

Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven with an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation, tribe, language, and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth, and sea and springs of waters.”

12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Reading the text does not make you a heretic.[/QUOTE]

Interestingly enough Revelations 14:7 says "worship Him who made the heaven and the earth, and sea and springs of waters."

Very similar verbiage to God's 4th commandment on keeping (worship) on His holy day, seventh day Sabbath.

Exodus 20: 8“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The devil has a counterfeit to everything, including the day of worship. The devil knows his time on this earth is drawing nearer and he wants to take as many as he can with him. Follow God and His words, He has wonderful promises for us all if we would only listen and obey.

God bless
 
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Original Happy Camper

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The 4th Commandment has not been part of the Church age


Matthew 5:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
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HARK!

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The church age started after the Resurrection of Jesus

(CLV) Ac 7:35
"This Moses, whom they disown, saying, `Who constitutes you a chief and a justice over us?' this one has God commissioned to be a chief as well as a redeemer, a justice, with the hand of the messenger who was seen by him in the thorn bush.

(CLV) Ac 7:36
This man led them out, doing miracles and signs in the land of Egypt and in the Red Sea, and in the wilderness forty years.

(CLV) Ac 7:37
This is the Moses who says to the sons of Israel: A Prophet will God be raising up to you from among your brethren, as me.

(CLV) Ac 7:38
This is he who came to be in the ecclesia in the wilderness with the messenger, who speaks to him in mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who receives the living oracles to give to you,

(CLV) Ac 7:39
to whom our fathers are not willing to become obedient, but they thrust him away, and turned to Egypt in their hearts,
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Original Happy Camper

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The church age started after the Resurrection of Jesus

Looks like, based on you comments you will not be part of verse 23

Isaiah 66:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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The church age started after the Resurrection of Jesus

Educate yourself on the Holy Sabbath of The LORD and mans changing of it.

Why do you think the LORD JESUS said this

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/sabbath_hist.pdf

Roman Catholic:

No such law in the Bible “Nowhere in the bible do we find that Jesus or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is, the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today, most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman] church outside the bible.” Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947 “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctified.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed.), pp.72,73 “If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church. Albert Smith, chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the cardinal in a letter of Feb. 10, 1920.
 
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Studyman

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show just ONE New Testament text that says that the Jewish Sabbath day Commendment, was reaffirmed. ALL of the other 9 are!

Can you find one prophesy in the entire Law and Prophets where it is implied, suggested or otherwise told that God's Laws need "Reaffirming" after HE becomes a man?? Where did you get this teaching?

Is Jesus is the Word of God which became flesh, that is, do you believe God came to earth in the Flesh, do you believe Jesus when HE says "I am HE", and "My Father and I are One"? When Jesus says "I am the Lord even of the Sabbath Days", and "It is Lawful to do good on the Sabbath", isn't this aligning with this Same Christ's Words in Lev. 23?

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

How can you preach that Jesus didn't "affirm" His Own Commandments, including His Own Sabbath"?
 
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Studyman

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The church age started after the Resurrection of Jesus

According to the Holy Scriptures which Jesus said to "Live by", there is only 2 differences between the Old Covenant Church of God, and the New Covenant Church of God. The Christ of the Bible defines these two differences in detail, in His Promise of the New Covenant, if you can accept His Words.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

OK, here is the Christ Himself defining the difference between the Church of God He established for the Israelite's coming out of Egypt, and the Church of God He will establish "After those days". (Which I am interpreting after Jesus becomes our High Priest)

So here is the Christ Himself defining His own New Covenant, if you can accept it.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Prior to this, the only way to hear God's Law was to find a Levite Priest and wait for him to read it. there was no other way. So the Christ is promising a "change" in the manner in which HIS Law is Administered.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Prior to this the only way for man to have his sin forgiven, was to get an animal for a sin offering and then seek out a Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial, ceremonial "works" of a Levitical Priesthood. (As the Hebrews author calls it) This was the only way to be justified before "After those days".

So the manner in which sins were forgiven is "changed" in the New Covenant.

As you can see, there is only 2 differences between the two covenants. The manner in which God's Law is Administered, and the manner in which transgression of God's Law is atoned/forgiven.

We are in the New Covenant church age and are included in His Church, "IF" we believe in Him, that is, the Christ of the Bible.
 
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eleos1954

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PRE-RESURRECTION! NOT in Acts and after!"

where does it state Jesus changed the 7th day Sabbath He created? Nowhere!

He is Lord of the Sabbath because He created it and He is Lord over it and it is unchangeable. Even in His death He rested in the tomb.

His resurrection did not change the 7th day Sabbath He created.

Hebrews 4:9 states explicitly: “So then, there remains a Sabbath rest [Greek, sabbatismos] for the people of God.” Sabbatismos “denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath”. Never in Scripture does sabbatismos or its cognate verb sabbatizō refer either to Sunday or to a nebulous spiritual experience. Hebrews 4:9 “Sabbath rest” that “remains … for the people of God” is the Sabbath instituted at creation, as explicitly indicated just four verses earlier (Heb. 4:4, quoting Gen. 2:2): “God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
 
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safswan

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THE EVIDENCE FROM EARLY CHURCH HISTORY, CHRISTIAN, NOT JEWISH!


Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch (A.D.35-108)

" If, therefore, they who were under the older dispensation came into a new hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's Day, on which day also our life rose through him and through his death, which certain deny, through which mystery we have received faith (and through this abide, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher)" (To the Magnesians, Chapter 9.1)

The Didache - The Teachings of the 12 Apostles to the World. (A.D. 85-125)

"But every Lord's Day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure" (Chapter 14)

Justin Martyr (A.D.100-165)

" And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." (First Apology, Chapter 67)

The Epistle of Barnabas (about A.D.130)

"Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make the beginning of the eighth day [Sunday] which is the beginning of another world. Wherefore also we keep the eighth day [Sunday] for rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens." (15:8-9)

Eusebius, Church Historian (A.D.263-339)

"The Sabbath and the rest of the discipline of the Jews they observed just like them, but at the same time, like us, they celebrated the Lord's Days as a memorial of the resurrection of the Saviour" (Church History, Book III, Chapter 27)

"A question of no small importance arose at that time. For the parishes of all Asia, as from an older tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon, on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should be observed as the feast of the Saviour's passover. It was therefore necessary to end their fast on that day, whatever day of the week it should happen to be. But it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this time, as they observed the practice which, from apostolic tradition, has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the Resurrection of our Saviour. Synods and assemblies of bishops were held on this account, and all, with one consent, through mutual correspondence drew up an ecclesiastical decree, that the mystery of the Resurrection of the Lord should be celebrated on no other but the Lord's Day, and that we should observe the close of the paschal fast on this day only" (Book V, Chapter 23)

The Apostolic Constitutions (about A.D.385)

" And on the Day of our Lord's Resurrection, which is the Lord's Day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that Day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?" (7:59)

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, lived during the time of the Apostles!


Spurious "Church Fathers" - Spurious Writings

Care must be taken as we evaluate the statements of the so called "Church Fathers" as the scriptures show an early departure from the apostles' doctrine by the churches and also claims are made by church historians that the writings of the "Fathers" have been distorted by forgery. (See Acts 20:28-31; II Peter 2:1-2; II Thessalonians 2:1-7; I John 2:18-20; Revelation 2:1-7,12-16,18-23, 3:1-5,14-19).

There is a scarcity of information about the Church in the years immediately after the last apostles:

"For fifty years after St. Paul's life, a curtain hangs over the Church, through which we strive vainly to look; and when at last it rises, about 120A.D. with the writings of the earliest Church Fathers, we find a Church in many aspects very different from that in the days of St. Peter and St. Paul"("The Story of the Christian Church" by Jesse Lyman Hurlbut, 1933).

Other writers, like Edward Gibbon, Will Durant and Charles Guingnebert, also testify of the vast difference between the Judean, Apostolic Church and the Church of the second century A.D. onwards.

Hence, any writings of so-called "Church Fathers" must be very carefully examined. In fact, any claim that the testimony of the "Church Fathers" confirm, "That worship on Sunday was prevalent in the first and second century," is misleading because of the failure to carefully examine these writings.

For example, contrary to one of Christianity's most important doctrines, Justin Martyr says Christ, the Word, was a "God under the Maker of the universe; as a God different in number from the God who made all." (A Catholic Dictionary by Addis and Arnold).

Ignatius and Irenaeus also had views about the bishop and tradition respectively, which I am sure many would refute. (See, "The World Treasury of Religious Quotations" by Ralph L. Woods).

Barnabas, in Chapter 19 of his Epistle, claims, "By thy hands thou shall labour for the redemption of thy sins."

Clearly, the theology of these "Church Fathers" is not according to apostolic teachings and their historical value is put in doubt by later historians:

"The writings of the so-called apostolic fathers have unhappily come down to us in a condition very little worthy of confidence, partly because under the names of these men so highly venerated in the Church, writings were very early forged for the purpose of giving authority to particular opinions or principles." (Johann Neander, "General History of the Christian Religion and Church.")

About these writings, Fredrick Farrar had this to say:

"There are but few of whose pages are not rife with errors, errors of method, errors of facts, errors of history, of grammar and even of doctrine." ("History of Interpretation").

Wharey's Church History, Cox's Literature and Dr. Adam Clarke testify similarly.

With the "Church Fathers" put in proper perspective, do the scriptures, Acts 20:7; I Corinthians 16:2,support early Sunday worship as many claim?

Even though they may be unreliable, I will also use the writings of the so-called "Church Fathers" to show that Sunday exhaltation was the anomaly and not the norm in early Christianity.

0 -100 A.D.
Eusebius (265-339) writing about the actions of the Church at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) said:
"Then the spiritual seed of Abraham fled to Pella, on the other side of Jordan, where they found a safe place of refuge and could serve their Master and keep His Sabbath." (Eusebius Ecclesiastical History).


100 - 200 A.D.
The following quote from 'The Didache' or 'Teaching of The Apostles' (100 A.D.) shows the Sabbath was still a consideration for Christians as the mention of preparation day must assume the continued observation of the Sabbath:

But do ye keep your fast on the fourth and on the preparation (the sixth) day." (Didache 8:2).

Irenaeus (130 - 200 A.D.) also spoke against those who like many claimed the Law was abolished or changed.

"For He (Christ) did not make void, but fulfilled the Law (Ten Commandments)." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Volume I Ante-Nicean Christian Library, (Boston 1887}, Page 471).


N.B. Irenaeus grew up in Asia Minor where he came in contact with Polycarp under whom the churches in that area observed the Sabbath and the 14th of Abib Passover. Irenaeus himself records the journey of Polycarp, in the mid-second century, to Rome in an effort to persuade Anicetus, Bishop of Rome, about the true time of the Passover which had been replaced by Easter in Rome. After spending some time in Rome, Irenaeus went on to become Bishop of Lyons in France. His contradictory statement, to the one above, as quoted by others, may have come from later influences in his life or could be an interpolation or forgery.

Tertullian (150 - 225 A.D.) also had this to say:
"Thus Christ did not at all rescind the Sabbath. He kept the Law thereof... He restored to the Sabbath the works for were proper for it." (Tertullian; Book IV, Chapter 12, Volume 3 Ante-Nilean Christian Library, {Boston, 1887} Page 362).

200 - 300 A.D.
Archelaus, Bishop of Kashkar (Carchar) Mesopotamia
"Again as to the assertion that the (Seventh Day) Sabbath has been abolished we deny that He (Christ) has abolished it plainly. For He Himself was also Lord of the Sabbath." (Archelaus, The Disputation with Manes, Volume 4 Ante-Nicean Christian Library, (Boston, 1887}, Page 217).

Mingana a fifth century leader of the Eastern Church wrote:
"As early as 225A.D. there existed large Sabbath-keeping bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East stretching from Palestine to India." (Mingana, Early Spread of Christianity).

300 - 400 A.D.
Ambrose was a bishop of Milan in the fourth century. "Ambrose the celebrated bishop of Milan said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the Proverb, 'When You Are in Rome, Do as Rome Does'" (P. Heylyn, History of the Sabbath).

400 - 500 A.D.
"Augustine (whose testimony is made the more impressive by his being a committed Sunday Keeper) shows ... that the (Seventh-Day) Sabbath was observed, in his day, 'In the Greater Part of the Christian World'." (Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 1st Series, volume 1, Pages 353 -354).

Augustine lived 354 - 430 A.D.


Sozomen a Historian wrote in 460 A.D:

"Assemblies are not held in all churches on the same time or manner. The people of Constantinople and almost everywhere assemble on the (Seventh Day) Sabbath as well as the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or Alexandria." (Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History,(Book VII, Chapter 19, Ante-Nicean Christian Library, Volume II, {Boston 1887} Page 390).

N.B. Justin Martyr and Irenaeus spent time in Rome and Barnabas was a bishop of Alexandria.

There is no lack of testimony confirming continued Sabbath keeping among Christians through the years and the reputable Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge contains this fitting summary of the situation. On the history of the Sabbath it says:

"None question that it was observed by Christ and His apostles, and by Christians generally durine the apostolic period. It had no rival day in the Church until about the middle of the second century, when Sunday began to be observed as a festival day in honour of the resurrection along with Wednesday, Friday and numerous other festal days of the Latin Church (Le. Roman), then beginning to drift upon the first great wave of its apostasy. This Church made the Sabbath Day a fast-day, not without sinister motives looking to its suppression in favour of the festival Sunday; while the Greek or Eastern Church steadfastly observed it as a day of holy delight in the Lord.... In the western Church the Seventh-Day continued to be observed quite generally till the fifth century and traces of it were noticeable in some parts of Europe much later. In Scotland and Ireland, as well as England, the Seventh Dav was regarded and observed as the Sabbath in the Eleventh Century and later.. .In the Oriental or Greek branch of the Church the Seventh Day continues to be observed to this day (1891)....In the Abyssinan, Armenianand Nestorian churches the Seventh Day has not yet been supplanted by the first day of the week." (Article, Seventh-Day Baptist, Shaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge 1891 Edition, Page 2165).
 
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safswan

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No Sunday Church Service

To support the false resurrection day of Sunday,passages of scripture are twisted to say that the disciples and primitive Christians met on the first day of the week to celebrate Christ's resurrection and also for worship. However, the fact that the Lord Jesus gave no instructions about celebrating or commemorating only His resurrection make these claims dubious and they in fact have no basis in scripture.

It is claimed that the disciples of Jesus, had, on the first day of the week following His death, gathered to celebrate His resurrection based on the account of His appearing to His disciples as is recorded in John 20:19. Nowhere in this account does it state that they had assembled to celebrate Jesus' resurrection and in fact if we take careful note of the events described in previous verses, we can clearly see that the disciples had not realised that the Lord Jesus was resurrected when they had gathered.

"For as yet they knew not the scripture that He must rise again from the dead. Then the disciples went away again to their own homey [John 20: 9,10.]


When Jesus stood in the midst of the disciples they had been gathered before they knew of His resurrection.

''And they arose up the same hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together and -them that were with them, saying, the Lord is risen indeed and hath appeared unto Simon .. .and as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them and saith unto them, peace be unto you. But they were terrified end affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit." [Luke 24: 33-37.] Compare with:

"...Came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, peace be unto you." [John 20: 19.]

How could the disciples have gathered to celebrate something that they had not known about? It is clear that even when Jesus appeared to them, they still had to be convinced that they were not seeing a spirit. [See Luke 24: 38-43; John 20: 20.]

It is obvious that this was no resurrection celebration service as the unbelief in Jesus' resurrection was evident. Apparently the disciples had gathered for a meal. [See Mark 16: 10-14; Luke 24: 13-16,31-42.]

But are there scriptures which point to a Sunday resurrection? Many will quickly say yes and point to Mark 16: 9. However, before we examine this statement, other statements concerning the resurrection must be considered in order to ensure that the scriptures which may seem contradictory are properly reconciled, as we study line upon line and precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. [Isaiah 28: 9,10.]

The following passages clearly show that when the disciples arrived at Jesus' tomb He was already risen i.e. He did not rise from the dead when they went to the tomb but before. [See Matthew 28: 1-8, Mark 16: 1-8; Luke 24: 1-6, John 20: 1, 2.] He appeared to them after they had seen an empty tomb. [Matthew 28: 9; Luke 24:13-16, 31; John 20:11-17.]

Hence the account in Mark 16: 9 is not saying He was risen on the first day of the week but that He appeared early on the first day to the disciples. This must have taken place after He had risen from the grave but not necessarily risen on the first day.

N.B.
Punctuation in the gospels were interjected by the English translators and hence the correct understanding of this verse is gained by placing another coma between risen and early.

(Mark 16:
9) - "... When Jesus was risen, early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene..."

The intention is to show that He first appeared to Mary when He was risen and He appeared, not rose, early on the first day. This will bring this verse in harmony with the rest of the passage and other scriptures which at no time state that Jesus was risen on the first day of the week.
 
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safswan

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Let's look at the detail HARK! from the scriptures....

We all agree that...

14 Nissan is Passover; 15 Nissan is Unleavened bread to be eaten and 16 Nissan is First Fruits.

The question is what days did these Feasts fall on when JESUS was crucified? This is what your post does not state. So let's look at the scriptures to determine your timings...

Forgive me here I had to make this a jpg as CF does not allow tables (or I do not know how to add them)...

View attachment 290777
..................

CONCLUSION: As shown above through the scriptures if you examine them carefully, a Wednesday or a Thursday crucifixion does not work out chronologically according to the scriptures. The only chronology that can be reconciled with scripture on all points is the Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection. It is the only scenario in which the typical festival days and their fulfillment match exactly, without a single discrepancy!

The Feast of First Fruits was not a Sabbath. According to the scriptures it is the day after the Sabbath...

Leviticus 23:9-10 [10], Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, When you be come into the land which I give to you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest: [11], And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: ON THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

This represented JESUS and those who rose with him on the Sunday...

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Hope this is helpful.


The 16th of Nissan is not the actual presentation of the first fruits according to the following:

Leviticus 23:
16Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.

The crucifixion and resurrection sequence can be looked at in this way also:


Many persons, even eminent Bible Scholars and much lettered Theologians have accepted and have taught that Jesus died on Friday afternoon was buried before the Sabbath begun and was resurrected on the third day which is Sunday. [Mark 15: 37-42; 16:1-9; Luke 23: 46-56; 24:1-7; John 19: 31,40-42; 20:1-9.]

There are scriptures which tell of Jesus being raised on the third day after His death and also after 3 days, and those persons who believe in a Sunday resurrection cling to these slightly vague scriptures and claim that Jesus does not have to be in the grave for 3 whole days, but that any part of a day is counted as one day and hence Friday is counted as day 1, Saturday is day 2 and Sunday is the third day on which the Lord is resurrected. [See Mark 8: 31; Matthew 16: 21; Luke 9: 22.]

While these scriptures speak of Jesus being resurrected after 3 days and on the 3rd day, may persons ignore a more precise and unambiguous prediction of how long Jesus would remain in the grave.

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth." [Matthew 12: 40]


Here Jesus prophesies that before He rose from the dead, He would have spent 72 hours in the grave. This is the most specific pronouncement about His time in the grave and was to be a sign to the Pharisees. Note that Jesus knew there were 12 hours in a day.


".. .Are there not 12 hours in a day!" (John 11: 9)


How then can we arrive at a Sunday resurrection, when Jesus was said to be buried between the ninth hour (i.e. 3pm) and sunset on Friday. [Matthew 27: 46-50; Luke 23: 44-46.] Between the ninth hour on Friday and the morning of the first day yields only 39 hours maximum. Was Jesus a false prophet? He would be if His sign did not come to pass. [Matthew 12: 39, 40; Deuteronomy 18: 20-22.]

All things concerning Him were fulfilled and hence we should expect that He would fulfill His own prophecy concerning Himself. Are the scriptures contradictory? If He was not crucified on a Friday then how is it that the day approaching would have been the Sabbath or is it a fable that He was resurrected on Sunday? The solution to these questions is properly outlined in the Bible and it is not necessary for one to be a Bible Scholar or a Theologian in order to solve this "puzzle."

Careful reading of the events of the crucifixion shows that the Lord Jesus was crucified on the day section of the Passover which occurred on the 14th day of the 1st month. He instituted the Lord's supper in the night part of the 14th which preceded the day. [Genesis 1: 5; Leviticus 23: 5; Exodus 12:1-4, Matthew 26:17-19; Mark 14:12; Mark 15:1-15.]

The following day which began at even was the 15th day of the first month and was the beginning of the yearly feast of unleavened bread and that day along with the last day of the feast are Sabbaths. [Exodus 12:15-20; Leviticus 23: 6-8.] It is this Sabbath which was being prepared for when Jesus was being crucified. John identified this Sabbath as an high day Sabbath.


".. .For that Sabbath day was an high day." [John 19: 31]


Hence two Sabbaths, the yearly high day Sabbath, and the weekly Sabbath, occurred before Jesus' resurrection.

N.B. The differences of operation in the two Sabbaths. On the high day or yearly Sabbath, food for the feast could be prepared on that day, but for the weekly Sabbath all food for the Sabbath must be prepared before that day.

"And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the 7th day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat; that only may be done of you." [Exodus 12: 16]

And it came to pass that on the sixth day .. .and He said unto them, "this is that which the Lord hath said, tomorrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord: Bake that which ye will bake today, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until morning." [Exodus 16: 22, 23]

"Six days shall ye gather it, but on the 7th day which is the Sabbath in it there shall be none." [Exodus 16: 26]

"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the Sabbath day." [Exodus 35: 2, 3]

Hence it is not inconceivable that because of the occurrence of the two Sabbath days in this week, then the second preparation day, which calls for more preparation, since the Sabbath approaching was the weekly Sabbath, would find the disciples so busy, especially the women that they could not have ventured to anoint Jesus with the prepared spices until the end of the weekly Sabbath. [Matthew 28: 1; Mark 16: 1, 2; Luke 24: 1.]

It is clear therefore that the time between Jesus' death and resurrection comprised one (1) preparation day and two (2) Sabbath days. Hence the 72 hours in the grave is arrived at by counting 24hrs of the high day Sabbath (i.e. up to the 9th hour) 24hrs of the 2nd preparation day in the week (i.e. up to the 9th hour) and 24hrs of the 2nd Sabbath i.e. the weekly Sabbath up to the 9th hour of that day which is the approximate time of His death and burial. In order to keep in the time cycle of 3 days and 3 nights the resurrection must have taken place at the same time of day as the burial i.e. between the 9th hour and sunset and not in the morning or any other time.

Many will say the New Testament writings do not clearly speak of two Sabbaths in the crucifixion week except for John [John 19: 31;Matthew 28:1] But how could it be otherwise if the scriptures are to remain consistent.

The scriptures,however,when studied carefully show that two sabbaths occurred before Jesus' resurrection.

In Mark 16:1 it says:

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."


While in Luke 23:56, it says:

"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."


In Mark 16:1;it shows that the spices were done after the Sabbath,while in Luke 23:56;it show the spices were done before the Sabbath.Sceptics will use this to say the scriptures are contradictory because of their failure to understand the sequence of events.The occurrence of two Sabbaths separated by one day,however, removes the possibility of any contradiction.

Mark reports them getting the spices ready after the yearly or high day Sabbath had past,[John 19:31;Leviticus 23:4-8] while Luke reports on them preparing the spices before the weekly Sabbath.[Matthew 28:1]

The questions we must bear in mind are:

Was there a feast of unleavened bread along with the Passover and when did they occur? [Leviticus 23: 4-8; Luke 22: 1-5; Mark 14: 1; Matthew 26:1, 2,17.]


Are Sabbaths of different administration than the weekly Sabbath associated with these feasts? [John 19: 31; Exodus 12:17,18; Leviticus 23: 3-8; Exodus 12: 6; 16: 22, 23, 26; 35: 2, 3.]

Should we expect that they would fall on separate days from the weekly Sabbath?

There has been much dispute about the proper way of reckoning time and various claims have been made about the correct calendar which was used by Israel.According to,"The Mystery of the Dead Sea Scrolls Revealed"- by John Allegro; there were different calendars in use at the time of Jesus' first advent.He said concerning one:

"The year is comprised of twelve months of thirty days each,with one day intercalated for each of the seasons,making 364 in all and exactly 52 weeks.Thus the festivals will recur on exactly the same day each week of the year as ordained in the heavenly tablets....They had Wednesday as the first day of the week and Passover commenced on a Wednesday."

This would be in agreement with the situation described previously and allow for a Wednesday crucifixion and a Sabbath afternoon resurrection comprising three days and three nights.

Another question to answer would be:

How can Jesus' prophecy to spend 3 days and 3 nights i.e. 72hrs in the grave fit in with a Friday afternoon burial and a Sunday morning resurrection? [Matthew 12: 40.]
 
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safswan

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what about Romans 14:5?

""One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."


There are persons who,although sticking to Sunday as their main day of assembling, claim that each man must be persuaded in his own mind as to which day he should use for the assembling of the Church/worship. This is based on Paul's letter to the Romans, when Paul in the 14th chapter sought to mediate concerning some disputes in the Church.

One concerned those who wanted to be vegetarians and those who knew it was acceptable for one to eat of animal flesh. The other dispute involved the choice of days for some purpose which was not mentioned. This could not be referring to the day of assembling for the Church, however, as if every man should choose his own day then the aim, of not forsaking the assembling of the brethren together, would be defeated, as some may choose Sunday, Monday or Wednesday.

The Pastor or Leader could not tell a brother or sister when to assemble together for every one must be fully persuaded in their own mind. [Romans 14: 1-6, 21; Hebrews 10: 24, 25; Ephesians 4: 11-16].

But many do not realise also that Paul referred the Romans to the scriptures written aforetime to solve this problem if they would not accept his word. [Romans 15: 4] This is the law and prophets, and they clearly endorse the Sabbath as the day of assembling. [Leviticus 23: 3] This day was not esteemed by man but by God as He called it His holy day. [Isaiah 58: 13; Exodus 31: 15; 20: 10]

Hence the day or days being disputed, [Romans 14: 5, 6] is most likely a day set aside by the individual for personal devotion to the Lord,probably for prayer and fasting. A proper fasting would almost be like a Sabbath day, but Paul is saying this need not be done on any special day, nor should someone else tell another when they are to engage in such activity, but they will do so as necessary or as led by the Lord. [Isaiah 58:1-7; I Corinthian 7: 5; Matthew 9:14,15]

Invariably however, those who use this scripture in this deceitful manner, are for the main among those who support Sunday as the Lord's day.
 
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safswan

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Show from the NT that after the Resurrection of Jesus, that the Disciples kept the 7th day. There are a number of verses that show the first day is when they met. Starting with the Day of Pentecost

They had been meeting on that day for years prior to the death and resurrection of the Lord.
 
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The 16th of Nissan is not the actual presentation of the first fruits according to the following:

Leviticus 23:
16Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.

The crucifixion and resurrection sequence can be looked at in this way also:


Many persons, even eminent Bible Scholars and much lettered Theologians have accepted and have taught that Jesus died on Friday afternoon was buried before the Sabbath begun and was resurrected on the third day which is Sunday. [Mark 15: 37-42; 16:1-9; Luke 23: 46-56; 24:1-7; John 19: 31,40-42; 20:1-9.]

There are scriptures which tell of Jesus being raised on the third day after His death and also after 3 days, and those persons who believe in a Sunday resurrection cling to these slightly vague scriptures and claim that Jesus does not have to be in the grave for 3 whole days, but that any part of a day is counted as one day and hence Friday is counted as day 1, Saturday is day 2 and Sunday is the third day on which the Lord is resurrected. [See Mark 8: 31; Matthew 16: 21; Luke 9: 22.]

While these scriptures speak of Jesus being resurrected after 3 days and on the 3rd day, may persons ignore a more precise and unambiguous prediction of how long Jesus would remain in the grave.

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth." [Matthew 12: 40]............ (continues repetition stopped and snipped to fit the post below in)

Hi safswan, nice to see you and thank you for making some time in sharing your view here :).

The topic of the Feast of firstfruit can be a little confusing for many because there are actually two harvest Feasts and sometime they have been referred to by the same name so this can get a little confusing. What your referring to above is the 2nd harvest feast while missing the first but lets give some background and of course provide the scriptures so this discussion may be a helpful and friendly one.

The first feast of Firstfruits has been called by a few different names. It's Hebrew name is "Ha Bikkurim". It is also known as the 'Feast of Omer' and the 'Feast of the Wave-sheath'. The second harvest feast is 50 days apart after the first Feast of firstfruit which is the one your referring to in your post above and, (depending on the bible translation) is also a harvest Feast called Feast of Firstfruits; Weeks; Ingathering; Pentecost. The second harvest feast that your referring to is 50 days latter is called and is called "Shavuot" in Hebrew.

The first feast was to do with the barley harvest arrived first in the March/April period. So this feast of the firstfruits was to do with the barley harvest. The second feast of firstfruits (50 days latter) included the wheat harvest normally around May and was associated with the (also called, feast of weeks, feast of ingathering or Pentecost). This second harvest feast also included fruit harvest (grapes, figs, pomegranates etc) which came came later around September and were associated with the fall feasts.

So God instructed the Israelites that before reaping the barley harvest (First feast of firstfruits) they were to take a sheaf of the first grain to the priest who would wave it before the Lord. As they waved the firstfruits to the left and the right, it was symbolising that this sheaf that they had represented the entire crop. Until they did this the rest of their crop was not 'kosher' (acceptable). They did this to acknowledge and thank the Lord for the coming harvest and to ask His blessing upon it.

Some of this I posted in another thread but it might be helpful here. Many people like yourself get the Feast of Bikkurim (Firstfruits) and Shavuot (called Feast of weeks or Feast of Harvest, or Feast of Ingathering or Pentecost) mixed up. The reason why is because both of these festivals are actually feasts of firstfruits and sometimes we find both of them being referred to as “Feast of Firstfruits“ although they are held at different dates and times according to the scriptures!

What makes matters worse is that in Hebrew the word "Bikkurim" literally means “firstfruits“. Hence, linguistically speaking, both the spring AND summer biblical feasts are technically "Bikkurim"! but held at different dates and times.

However, to make things simple, lets refer to the Spring Feast of Firstfruits as "Bikkurim" or the Feast of Omer' and the 'Feast of the Wave-sheath and the Summer Feast of Firstfruits as "Shavuot" or the “Feast of Weeks; Harvest, Ingathering, Pentecost (different bible translations)”.

Now "Bikkurim" (Spring Feast of Firstfruits) was a ONE-DAY event just like Passover was. Leviticus 23:11 tells us it is supposed to be observed “the day after the Sabbath”. So unlike Passover which is always celebrated on Nissan 14, "Bikkurim" is not assigned a fixed date as it can fall on a different date every year depending on the yearly cycle. Its timing is determined by which days of the week Passover and Unleavened Bread fall.

However, much confusion (between the Scribes and Pharisees) had arisen in the past concerning when exactly to observe "Bikkurim" because of the phrase “the day after the Sabbath”. For example, is this phrase referring to the regular 7th day weekly Sabbath? Or is it referring to one of the preparation day sabbaths (annual Feast sabbaths) connected to the feasts? This issue has been debated vigorously amongst the scribes and pharisees for ages.

I’m not going to go into all the reasoning behind the decision or we’ll be here forever, but in the final analysis, it was decided that Firstfruits (the first harvest Feast Bikkurim) was to be observed every year on the set day of Nissan 16 which follows right after the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Ultimately it was determined that the “sabbath” being referred to in verse 11 was NOT the regular weekly 7th day weekly Sabbath but instead was referring to the preparation day sabbath which is the 1st day of Unleavened Bread (on Nissan 15).

Remember that the 1st and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are to be sabbath days (shadow sabbaths not necessarily God's 4th commandment) that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle.

The breakdown is as follows:

NISSAN 14=Passover
NISSAN 15=1st Day of Unleavened Bread (also to be considered a sabbath not the Sabbath)

Note: Nisan 15, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Chag ha-Matzot), is an annual shadow sabbath, but not necessarily a 7th-day-of-the-week-Sabbath. It can fall on any day of the week.

NISSAN 16=Feast of Firstfruits ("Ha Bikkurim" also known as the 'Feast of Omer' and the 'Feast of the Wave-sheath').

Two technical points to keep in mind are that leaven is also to be avoided on Passover Day and the Feast of Unleavened Bread continues on for seven days starting on Nissan 15

...............................

Lets now show that there is two separate harvest feasts from the scriptures and when they start?

TWO HARVEST FEASTS

Exodus 23:14-16 Three times you shall keep a feast to Me in the year: You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread . . . and the Feast of Harvest, the firstfruits of your labours which you have sown in the field; and the Feast of harvest at the end of the year . . ."

Besides being called the Feast of Weeks in Leviticus 23, this special feast celebration is called the “Day of the Firstfruits” in Numbers 28:26 and the “Feast of Harvest” in Exodus 23:16 but note the Feast of Weeks takes place exactly 50 days after the first Feast of Firstfruits. It normally occurs in late spring, either the last part of May or the beginning of June. This Feast is calculated as being “fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath” (Leviticus 23:15–16; Deuteronomy 16:9–10).

HARVEST FEAST 1 - FEAST OF FIRSTFRUITS (BIKKURIM)

Leviticus 23:9-11 [9] And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [10] “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, [11] and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted. ON THE DAY AFTER THE SABBATH THE PRIEST SHALL WAVE IT.

HARVEST FEAST 2 - FEAST OF WEEKS (SHAVUOT)

Leviticus 23:15-16 [15] “YOU SHALL COUNT SEVEN FULL WEEKS FROM THE DAY AFTER THE SABBATH, FROM THE DAY THAT YOU BROUGHT THE SHEAF OF THE WAVE OFFERING. [16] YOU SHALL COUNT FIFTY DAYS TO THE DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH. THEN YOU SHALL PRESENT A GRAIN OFFERING OF NEW GRAIN TO THE LORD.

..................

Finally there is no scripture that says Jesus had to be a full literal 72 hours in the grave that interpretation is reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say. That is also not how Hebrew reckoning of a day works. There are many scripture examples of "part days" being referred to as "a day".

In Matthew 12:40 for example “three days and nights” is considered to be Hebrew figure of speech referring to any part of three days and nights. This is quite a common practice used within the scriptures.

For example in Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 “three days and three nights” does not mean 72 hours. For, although they fasted three days and nights (4:16) between the time they started and the time she appeared before the king, the passage states that Esther appeared before the king “on the third day” (5:1). If they began on Friday, then the third day would be Sunday. Hence, “three days and nights” must mean any part of three days and nights.

Also you may want to consider Jesus used the phrase “on the third day” to describe the time of His resurrection after His crucifixion (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; cf. 26:61). But, “on the third day” cannot mean “after three days” which 72 hours demands. On the other hand, the phrase “on the third day” or “three days and nights” can be understood to mean within three days and nights. If you follow the timings through Jesus perfectly fulfilled the prophecy as he died on Nissan 14, rested in the grave on Nissan 15 and rose sometime on Nissan 16 (first day of the week).

Hope this was helpful
 
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