Partial Preterist Only A parousia and judgement on 70ad Jerusalem Revelation 18-19

[LittleLambofJesus]

Partial Preterist commentary #4

A Dissuasive From the Errors of the Time
CHAPTER 11
The thousand years of Christ his visible Reign
upon earth, is against Scripture.
By Robert Baillie (1645)

A D I S S V A S I V E FROM THE E R R O U R S Of the T I M E:
Wherein the Tenets of the principall Sects, especially of the Independents, are drawn to-gether in one Map, for the most part, in the words of their own Authours, and their maine principles are examined by the Touch-stone of the Holy Scriptures.
By ROBERT BAYLIE Minister at Glasgow.

JER. 9.3. They are not valiant for the Truth upon the earth.
JUDE ver. 3. It was needfull for me to write unto you and exhort you, that you should earnestly contend for the faith, which was once delivered unto the Saints; for there are certaine men crept in unawares, &c.
Published by Authority.
L O N D O N,
Printed for SAMUEL GELLIBRAND at the Brasen Serpent in Pauls Church-yard, 1645.

Robert Baillie

• 1645: A Dissuasive From the Errors of the Time - The thousand years of Christ his visible Reign upon earth, is against Scripture

The Original and progress of Chiliasm.

AMONG all the Sparkles of new light wherewith our Brethren do entertain their own and the people’s fancy, there is none more pleasant than that of the thousand years; a conceit of the most Ancient and gross Heretic Cerinthus, a little purged by Papias, and by him transmitted to some of the Greek and Latin Fathers, but quickly declared, both by the Greek and Latin Church to be a great errour, if not an heresy. Since the days of Augustine unto our time, it went under no other notion, and was embraced by no Christian we hear of, till some of the Anabaptists did draw it out of its grave: for a long time after its resurrection, it was by all Protestants contemned; only Alstedius, after his long abode in Transylvania, began in his last times to fall into liking with some parts thereof, pretending some passages of Piscator for his encouragement. Alstedius’ Heterodox Writings were not long abroad when Mr. Meade at Cambridge was gained to follow him: yet both these Divines were far from dreaming of any personal reign of Christ upon earth: only Mr. Archer, and his Colleague, T.G. at Arnheim, were bold to set up the whole Fabric of Chiliasm, which Mr. Burrows in his London Lectures upon Hosea doth press as a necessary and most comfortable ground of Christian Religion, to be infused into the hearts of all children by the care of every parent at the Catechising of their family.

Secondly, the time here spoken of is when the Jews to whom Peter did speak, were to be refreshed, by the Lord’s presence; but this shall not be before the General resurrection; for the Chiliasts do maintain that all the Jews shall not rise, neither that any of them to whom the Apostle did then speak, shall be partakers of the first resurrection, unless some of them who were Martyrs; for the honour and Glory of this first resurrection, the most of them make it so rare and singular a privilege, that Daniel himself does not obtain it but by a special promise.

Thirdly, The time when God doth solemnly before Men, and Angels declare the absolution and blotting out of the sins of all his people, is not before the last day. But this is the time whereof the Apostle Peter speaks in the present place, as appears by the 19th verse; That your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Take but one other place for Christ’s abode in the heaven till the last day, John 14.2,3, I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself, that where I am there you may be. Behold Christ goes to the heaven and comes back again but once, for this very end, to take his Disciples with him, not to abide with them upon the earth, but to place them in the Mansions of his Father’s House in the Heavens, which he went to prepare for them, wherein all the time of his absence he himself was to remain.

Our second reason is builded on Christ’s sitting at the right hand of God till the day of judgment.

Our third reason is grounded on the resurrection of the dead; the godly and ungodly do all rise together at the last day.

Our third argument we take from the resurrection of the dead. All the Godly at Christ’s coming from heaven do rise immediately to a Heavenly Glory. Ergo, none of them do arise to a Temporal glory of a thousand years upon earth. The antecedent see in Heb. 9.28, Unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Christ hath but two times of coming to the earth, first in weakness to die upon the Cross; The second time in glory to give eternal Salvation without distinction to all believers who look for his coming.

Also, 1 Thess. 4.14, Them which sleep in Jesus, will he bring with him. The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we which are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we be ever with the Lord. The ground of comfort which the Apostle propounds to the Thessalonians for all their dead, as well Martyrs as others, was their resurrection not before the Lord’s coming with the voice of the Archangel, but at that time when all the dead in Christ without exception do arise, and none of them abide on the earth, but all are caught up in the air to meet the Lord, and all remain with him eternally thereafter without any separation.

See also, 1 Cor. 15.22, In Christ shall all be made alive, but every man in his own order; Christ the first-fruits, afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming; then cometh the end when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God. The Apostle here speaks {229} of the Resurrection of all, and particularly of the Martyrs such as with the Apostle died daily and every hour were in jeopardy and fought with Beasts; although he professes to distinguish the diversity of order that might be in this great work of the Resurrection: yet he affirms that these who are Christ’s do not arise till his coming; and his coming he makes not to be till the last day when Christ renders up his Oeconomick Kingdom, having destroyed all his enemies, especially death, & fully perfected the work of his mediation. This Resurrection is after the sound of the last Trumpet, when all the godly rise, and are changed, and put on incorruption and immortality, when death is swallowed up into victory, and the godly inherit the Kingdom of God; these things are done at the last day, not a thousand years before it, as John 6, Christ avoweth thrice, in the end, verses 39,40,44, I will raise him up at the last day. At that time the judgment is universal, both of the godly and wicked; and the execution of both their sentences is immediately by the present glorification of the one and the destruction of the other as we have it, Matth. 25.31, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, before him shall be gathered all Nations; and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the Goats.

Our fourth reason is builded on Christ’s Kingdom which is Spiritual and not earthly.

Our fifth reason is taken from the nature of the Church.

We take our fifth argument from the nature of the Church; Scripture makes the Church of God so long as it is upon the earth to be a mixed multitude, of Elect and Reprobate, good and bad, a company of people under the cross and subject to various temptations, a company that hath need of the Word and Sacraments, of Prayer and Ordinances, that hath Christ a High Priest within the vail of heaven interceding for them. But, the Doctrine in hand changes the nature of the Church, and makes it for a thousand years together to consist only of good and gracious persons, without all trouble, without all Ordinances, without any need of Christ’s intercession.

 

[BABerean2]

Hello parousia 70. Interesting post and I tend to agree it is a "conundrum" within Preterism.
I have a thread on that topic for those interested:

2 Timothy 2:18 "SOME SAYING RESURRECTION ALREADY BECAME"

A few links concerning that:

What About Hymenaeus and Philetus | Study Archive
*snip*
At this point my conscience also says, So why were Hymenaeus and Philetus excommunicated? Before I ask that, I have to ask myself the question: Had the resurrection happened yet? No, of course not. Second, I had to ask, why did not Paul correct the Thessalonians in 2 Thess 2:1-3 by saying "Look you guys, if the coming of Christ took place and the resurrection happened (according to the orthodox views of the 20th century), there would be bodies flying out of the graves etc. I know you have thought about this.
But how could Hymenaeus and Philetus be so stupid to say the resurrection had passed if everyone's conception of resurrection was bodies flying out of graves? Seriously. Then I had to ask the question, what was the real reason they were "overthrowing the faith of some"? I believe the answer lies in the fact that the resurrection was inseparable from the destruction of the Jewish Temple.

So what Hymenaeus and Phil were doing was negating the words of Christ and nullifying other VERY important prophecies that had to take place before that day would come (2 Thess 2:1-12). Also interesting is the fact that in 2 Thess 2, the KJV at hand is wrong. It is not the word AT HAND but literally means "has come." There were rumors that Christ had come. So now we have in two places (if their interpretation of the coming and resurrection was twentieth century orthodoxy) that crazy lunatics were trying to say the resurrection and coming had taken place. Well, quite honestly, I think these guys were smart enough to realize that no one would buy that tale unless they were seeing the physical body of Christ and graves popping open. But Russ, I believe they were taught and entirely different view of the kingdom/resurrection:
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Andrew Sandlin: Hymenaeus Resurrected (1997)
*snip*
Second, the HP denial that Christ’s coming is a physical event cannot do justice to texts like Ac. 1:11 whose most obvious sense is that Christ will return to earth in a discrete, physical body. The HP’s are intent to argue that they do not deny the second Advent, only a second Advent after A. D. 70. This is at best disingenuous, and at worse deceptive. They do not believe in a physical second Advent of any kind. The heresy is less in claiming that it is past – though this too is heresy – than in claiming it is not physical.

Perhaps the most inconceivable and tortuous exegesis of the Leonards’ entire book is that which concludes that the rapture of 1 Thes. 4:17 may very well refer to the first-century’s Christians’ death [!]. [10] The very problem Paul addresses is the concern of the Thessalonians that they may never see their (physically!) dead brethren again. To argue that seeing their brethren again in the “death of the rapture” is Paul’s comfort makes nonsense of the passage. The descent of the Lord with the saints will include the snatching away of both those remaining alive in him, and the “dead in Christ” who rise first (v. 16). If the rapture denotes (physical) death, to whom does “the dead in Christ” refer? In v. 17, who are those who “are alive and remain”? If the rapture is nothing but physical death, why the differentiation between the dead in Christ and the living who remain? If the rapture denotes death, why should Christ return for those who are already dead? This makes no sense on the hyperpreterist thesis, but does pose a severe embarrassment. Even if v. 16 is taken to refer to the coming in judgment of A. D. 70, it could never plausibly be argued that all those who were alive during that era were “raptured by death” to rejoin their deceased brethren. In any case, who are the “dead in Christ” that are to rise at the destruction of Jerusalem? The entire HP suggestion is senseless.

Third, the definition of the resurrection of the just as a progressive evolution in victory from the old to the new covenant order in A. D. 33-70 leaves the issue of the resurrection of theunjust conspicuously missing. But the very passages that speak of the resurrection of the just speak no less emphatically of the resurrection of the unconverted (e.g., Ac. 24:15). Only if the resurrection of the unjust means a future, definitive physical resurrection to condemnation and the resurrection of the just means a future, definitive physical resurrection to life eternal can we do justice to the very meaning of the resurrection of both just and unjust.
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How do we know the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead described in John 5:27-30 has not happened yet?

Have the men of Nineveh, and the queen of the south been resurrected to condemn the generation that Christ spoke to?

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Has Christ judged both the living and the dead described in the passage below?

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found below shortly after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, is sounded.
Has the 7th angel already sounded?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Those promoting "Full-Preterism" would say all of the above have already been fulfilled. They have to in order to make their doctrine work.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Those promoting "Full-Preterism" would say all of the above have already been fulfilled. They have to in order to make their doctrine work.
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Ok...............