A New Interpretation of Genesis

[TLK Valentine]

well do u want to die ?

Of course not. Neither do you. Neither does anyone.

So what?

The result of sin is death.

That's one belief... which leads to a convenient solution.

people get old and die. There can be suffering in that to say the least, and their love ones so I guess in the physical and world side physically dying isn't a good thing.
What is your point ????

What's yours?

What if death is not a punishment for some past transgression, but the inevitable result of life?
What if death is unavoidable, and no amount of wishful thinking, hoping, believing, or praying, can make it go away?
What if the fact that people are afraid of death and wish there was a way to defeat it, but their wishes and fears didn't mean a thing?

 

[dougangel]

Of course not. Neither do you. Neither does anyone.

So what?



That's one belief... which leads to a convenient solution.



What's yours?

What if death is not a punishment for some past transgression, but the inevitable result of life?
What if death is unavoidable, and no amount of wishful thinking, hoping, believing, or praying, can make it go away?
What if the fact that people are afraid of death and wish there was a way to defeat it, but their wishes and fears didn't mean a thing?

So life is meaningless according to you.

Jesus Christ made truth claims about life explained the human condition and many things. Gave us his holy spirit which I experienced daily. The way he lived his life was authentic and I count him as an authority.

valentine is there good and evil in life ???

 

[TLK Valentine]

So life is meaningless according to you.

I didn't say that. Why would you think that? Perhaps the meaning is something that must be grasped -- not assigned.

Live if not meaningless -- but it is temporary.

Jesus Christ made truth claims about life explained the human condition and many things. Gave us his holy spirit which I experienced daily. The way he lived his life was authentic and I count him as an authority.

valentine is there good and evil in life ???

A cat chases, catches, and eats a mouse. Ask them if there's good and evil.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You would be jumping to conclusions to equate that from that. No I believe your spirit lives on.I'm a christian.
I meant. Isn't that what atheists are telling us ? You die, game over.

Not necessarily. While many atheists, including myself, do not believe in an afterlife, the lack of a deity would not inherently mean no afterlife. I used to believe in ghosts, but I have never believed deities existed. No afterlife is not some inherent tenet of atheism. The only "tenet" of atheism is not believing deities exist, no more, no less.

 

[PsychoSarah]

So life is meaningless according to you.

When this life is all you consider yourself to have, it is all the more precious to you. That I view my existence as temporary makes me value it all the more for the brief time I have, to the point that it alone has stayed my hand from killing myself on numerous occasions. No matter how bad things get, no matter how much pain I feel, at least it is SOMETHING rather than the void of complete nonexistence. Furthermore, I don't feel that lasting forever is necessary to make what I do while I am alive worthwhile or meaningful. To some, having an eternal afterlife would actually make it less meaningful, as there is no time constraint on anything, and even if that afterlife gives you free reign to do whatever you want, eventually, you will do all that you ever wanted many times over, and still have eternity to go. Basically, some people feel that they would lose all meaning if they did exist forever.

Personally, I would rather to exist without end, than have it cut short, but that is my personal feelings on the matter, and plenty of people do not feel that way.

Jesus Christ made truth claims about life explained the human condition and many things. Gave us his holy spirit which I experienced daily. The way he lived his life was authentic and I count him as an authority.

The statements attributed to him in regards to human nature are pretty shallow; the average person could see what he saw, even if they couldn't vocalize it very well.

valentine is there good and evil in life ???

I will answer, although this is not directed at me. Good and evil are concepts, with "good" normally being applied to what is considered beneficial to oneself and society without posing a detrimental consequence, and "evil" being that which harms oneself or others with little to no benefit to speak of. A "necessary evil" is knowingly doing something harmful, without better alternatives being present or reasonable to enact. Concepts do not physically exist, but are ideas, which can be subject to change. These concepts have changed drastically over time as societies have come and gone. Ultimately, they are subjective. Even if you believe that god established them, they would still be subject to that deity's outlook and experiences, and would be no less subjective.

 

[dougangel]

I didn't say that. Why would you think that? Perhaps the meaning is something that must be grasped -- not assigned.

Live if not meaningless -- but it is temporary.



A cat chases, catches, and eats a mouse. Ask them if there's good and evil.

I can't ask a cat can I ?
The human condition is different to the animal condition, where we are now in life.

God has given man a spiritual image or nature.

"""Life if not meaningless -- but it is temporary."""

That is a philosophical world view.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

well why are you wasting your time on here?

I enjoy the discussions that take place on here. I wouldn't call it a waste of time.

IF you really believe that why aren't trying to do something hedonistic or take over the world or something, leaving your mark on this world ?

I don't have a desire to "take over the world". My life is quite fulfilling. What makes you think that it's not? Because I don't believe in God? Lol.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I can't ask a cat can I ?
The human condition is different to the animal condition, where we are now in life.

God has given man a spiritual image or nature.

"""Life if not meaningless -- but it is temporary."""

That is a philosophical world view.

Any opinion on how meaningful life is and why is a matter of the philosophical.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I can't ask a cat can I ?

Nor can you ask a mouse. But if you could, I'd bet my blessings that they'd give different answers, based on their situation.

The human condition is different to the animal condition, where we are now in life.

God has given man a spiritual image or nature.

So you say.

"""Life if not meaningless -- but it is temporary."""

That is a philosophical world view.

And your alternative isn't?

 

[dougangel]

I didn't say that. Why would you think that? Perhaps the meaning is something that must be grasped -- not assigned.

Live if not meaningless -- but it is temporary.



A cat chases, catches, and eats a mouse. Ask them if there's good and evil.

You have just made a truth claim.
Ok What's the meaning of life according to you ?

That is a philosophical world view. The reason I brought that up is. It's not a scientific point of view.
I mean wow, you have made a lot of philosophical opinions for an agnostic. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to take you for an authority based on what you have said. I'm going to stick with Jesus.

Luke 13
New International Version (NIV)
Repent or Perish
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

 

[Herman Hedning]

"""Life if not meaningless -- but it is temporary."""

That is a philosophical world view.

No, it is reality. I really do not understand why christians keep claiming that atheists should think their life is meaningless. It is the only life they have, right? So, better value it while it lasts. On the other hand, christians are free to murder and pillage all they want during their time on earth, as long as they repent before death. So, who will value their life the most?

 

[dougangel]

No, it is reality. I really do not understand why christians keep claiming that atheists should think their life is meaningless. It is the only life they have, right? So, better value it while it lasts. On the other hand, christians are free to murder and pillage all they want during their time on earth, as long as they repent before death. So, who will value their life the most?

Ok. what is the meaning of your life ?????

 

[razzelflabben]

No, it is reality. I really do not understand why christians keep claiming that atheists should think their life is meaningless. It is the only life they have, right? So, better value it while it lasts. On the other hand, christians are free to murder and pillage all they want during their time on earth, as long as they repent before death. So, who will value their life the most?

not so, scripture talks about the those that do things but lack faith as well as those who do not allow their faith to change their behavior.

 

[dougangel]

On the other hand, Christians are free to murder and pillage all they want during their time on earth, as long as they repent before death. So, who will value their life the most?

Well your wrong there. Jesus said this about the subject.
Mathew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[razzelflabben]

Our son, who calls himself an agnostic, just described it to someone at school this way. According to the Bible, one has to repent of their sins. Repentance means to turn if you don't turn away from your sin, that is, stop doing it, then you were never forgiven for that sin and therefore you reap the rewards of your sin.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Well your wrong there. Jesus said this about the subject.
Mathew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I am aware that there are many different interpretations and opinions on what it takes to become a christian and be saved. As far as I understand, most christians agree that it is never too late to be saved. If a murderer repents on his deathbed and gives himself to Jesus, will he not be saved and go to heaven according to christian doctrine?

 

[razzelflabben]

I am aware that there are many different interpretations and opinions on what it takes to become a christian and be saved. As far as I understand, most christians agree that it is never too late to be saved. If a murderer repents on his deathbed and gives himself to Jesus, will he not be saved and go to heaven according to christian doctrine?

the question there, is if he was truly repentant, which is a heart matter that only God can judge

 

[Herman Hedning]

the question there, is if he was truly repentant, which is a heart matter that only God can judge

Sure, but let's assume he was. An entire life of evildoing, and then a deathbed conversion and true repentance. Isn't that enough? Most christians seem to think so.

 

[dougangel]

Sure, but let's assume he was. An entire life of evildoing, and then a deathbed conversion and true repentance. Isn't that enough? Most christians seem to think so.

An all knowing righteous God of Justice and mercy is going to sort that out at judgement day. We don't know the standard we just have to attempt to do the will of the father which is to attempt to interpret and follow the teaching of Jesus and the New testament.

You keep bombarding us with questions with out answering my question.
Whats your alternative ?

what is the meaning of your life for you ?????

 

[Herman Hedning]

An all knowing righteous God of Justice and mercy is going to sort that out at judgement day. We don't know the standard we just have to attempt to do the will of the father which is to attempt to interpret and follow the teaching of Jesus and the New testament.

You keep bombarding us with questions with out answering my question.
Whats your alternative ?

what is the meaning of your life for you ?????

So, there is no way of knowing before the judgement if you are getting an eternal life? Sounds like a good reason to value your earthly life then.

The meaning of my life is of course to cherish my family and friends, to do good work for the community, and in general be a good person. Why? Because that will reciprocate and bring love and good things back to me. And that is as meaningful as it gets, don't you agree?