A new CF, an old vision

[TasManOfGod]

I would agree. It is well known that there is a good deal contained in the 'sooper seekrit' forums that is not just confidential but rather inflammatory towards individual members. With this new attitude I think a flushing of what went before and forgiveness from all for that might have been said behind closed doors is appropriate.

Perhaps a better method in line with Erwin's ideals would be that all those who gossipped and slandered behind closed doors actually ASK for forgiveness to those they offended. After all the "victim" would hardly know who to forgive would they if all is done in "seekrit"

 

[Apex]

Actually I suspect most mods who have been diligently striving to serve CF will not be nominated because they have been doing their job and have become unpopular.

Come on, you are judging this before he even has the time to post the specifics or even implement one part of the new CF. You really think he will let it just be a simple popularity contests and members will only elect those who will not enforce the rules? Do you believe there is no one here who wants the rules to be enforced fairly?

 

[MariaRegina]

Funny to see your first thoughts on the new system are about how it affects the catholics ...

Oh yes, now the SSPX can visit us.

"Oh spare us," I can hear the pleas.

Actually, I would enjoy reading their posts and threads.

It would help to balance the news we get. Wouldn't it?

Or would it? Yikes.

 

[PaladinValer]

First off, wow.

Secondly, forgive me, but I have a great many questions:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open

I'm fine with this.

b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.

How might you avoid "factions" being created? People who band together to form a majority to make sure a substantial minority get the shaft...what measures will be in place to make sure everything is equitable?

c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.

Again, I see factionalism as a potent and terrible possibility. I also see a potential of unprofessionalism. Some people might be voted in who have no leadership skills. How might these be avoided? For example, a 16 year-old with no real theological knowledge is made staff in OBOB. The youngin' has little experience in Vatican doctrine, dogma, apologetics, orthopraxy, and history. Does that mean that OBOB must put up with that moderator until the next election?

Are recalls a possibility?

How is staff culpable?

d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.

How might those who violate rules be dealt with? What sort of order will be instituted?

e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].

What about specific congregational forums? Will, say, Methodists now be allowed to enter the Calvinist congregational forum and post what they will?

f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.

No problems here.

g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

How might outright anarchy be avoided? Ultraconservative Calvinists are going to consider Methodists non-Christians. FIBs are going to consider all Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, etc, all non-Christians.

What measure will be in place to be sure threads won't digress into a "you're not Christian" bash-fest?

h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.

Member-impute in the actual official appeal thread or in a new forum specifically for discussing appeals?

i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

I have no critical problems, but what will be considered "has to be private"?

I see a lot of promise, and I see a lot of potential problems. Still, I enjoy a challenge and new opportunities, so you can consider me someone who is going to stay and give this a try.

Just one more question: Is this going to be a "living" experiment: something continually breathing and changing when necessary? If someone doesn't work, try something new, right? (Well, I suppose that's two questions )

 

[geocajun]

NO

But porn is in the trash bins and it can be read if a mod undoes the soft delete. Porn is also left in some open threads, since once it is soft deleted, it is no longer viewable by members or staff. But staff did have the power to view soft deleted items when I was a mod a year ago.

Is the soft delete feature still the rule at CF?

Can Admins hard delete offensive posts and hard porn?

That is really a protocol issue more than anything. Mods could move a thread into an area where only Erwin could view it when I left staff, but there was no protocol stating that pornographic threads would be handled that way - perhaps there should have been.
In any case, I am not aware of anyone 'surfing the trash bin' for porn, so I'm not sure there is a problem that needed to be solved, but rather only the potential for a problem.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Actually I suspect most mods who have been diligently striving to serve CF will not be nominated because they have been doing their job and have become unpopular.

That is what I suspect.

I figure mod selection will become a popularity contest and not about how one desires to serve the Lord. : (

 

[MariaRegina]

93 (83 members and 10 guests) Aria, Addicted2~Jesus, Agnosticteen, Ajax 777, Alexander Nissi , angelwind, Ann Doupont, Apex, Auntie, Bessie, Briel, Brimshack, CaDan, Calliso, CCGirl, CelticGrace, cygne

, DedicatedLittleFaith , doc329, drstevej, Dust and Ashes, eirene, Erwin , Fineous_Reese, FreeinChrist , fwmcathy, geocajun, Glass*Soul, gonebowling, Goodchild, GreenMunchkin, heavensangelwv, HeReignsInMe , hernyaccent, Hydra009, I'ddie4him2 , iec91820, intricatic , JacobsDream , JCrawf, jesuspickedmeup, Joykins, jtbdad , kamikat , kiwimac, Leader of the Banned, Lel, Lena75, Letalis, LilLamb219 , Lisa0315, livingword26, longhair75 , mesue, Michie, MtDoraAngel, nanajojothatsme, NyssaTheHobbit, PaladinValer, ParaCristo , Phred, ProfessorMom, Protinus , Purifying FLAME, ravenscape, RedTulipMoon, RN4CHRIST , Salty Tears, Sign Of The Fish Burger, SiobhanClancy, Skaloop, skylark1, snoochface, Snowy, SoupySayles, Spudgrandma , Swart, tapero , tashiseisei, Tastes Like Future, TheBear, Tychicus2, wmc1982

Wow! 93!

Woot.

 

[Snowy]

Hi all

I need to firstly give all glory to God for all He has done in my life. There is no question that He has blessed me with everything that I have and He deserves all the praise. God is good, all the time, and all the time, God is good.

[bible]Exodus 15:11[/bible]

I admit that I have neglected the running of CF for most of the past 12 months. This is because of 2 reason - Firstly, I have been truly busy - my day job is to run a hospital, and that is a very busy job. In addition, I am an elder in my church, and I also sit on various medical and legal committees outside of work. I am also studying a second Masters degree at the moment. I have a busy life.

However, the second reason why I have avoided CF is because CF has become like "hard work" to me - I no longer felt that visiting it was a positive thing. I did not look forward to reading negative posts about the site nor having to deal with PMs from various factions within CF wanting me to do something to support them. I had developed an aversion to the site - I dreaded clicking on my CF bookmark. I was in despair, to be honest. I suspect some of you, including staff members, have felt the same.

But God reminded me:

[bible]Jeremiah 1:5[/bible]

I had to return to my roots. Just as returning to your first love for God is important, I had to return to why I started CF in the first place. The original vision for CF. The vision I have for CF has always been to unite ALL Christians on the Internet. Somehow, the site has ended up dividing some Christians, and caused strife in the body of Christ. It doesn't matter that our intention was good - it is the outcome that matters. Sure, CF has done a lot in the lives of many, but the Bible says:

[bible]Luke 15:4[/bible]

CF is here for Christians on the Internet, and not the other way around. CF should not try to make Christians conform to what it believes to be Christian. Who am I to judge the heart of another man? I can't. CF should be a place of refuge, as ones who bear the name of the Lord, a strong tower for Christians to feel safe in. It should attract Christians because we raise Jesus up to draw all men unto him.

[bible]Proverbs 18:10[/bible]

CF should also be a lighthouse in the wilderness, to be a good testimony to those who are not Christians instead of showing the world that Christians are actually worse than they are.

[bible]Matthew 5:13-14[/bible]

We must be the light, not the ones that block the light.

Are we really helping each other by tearing each other down? Are we really being good witnesses to the world by refusing to let the world in? Are we that afraid of the dark when we have the Light of the world?

The Christian world is a world that is diverse. Make no mistake, we are all different, and we are meant to be that way.

[bible]1 Corinthians 12:15-18[/bible]

Instead of putting other Christians down because they do not believe in what we do, because we believe we have the "truth", we should celebrate our similarities and revel in our differences which makes us useful for God to be used in different settings for different people.

We are all part of the same body. One Body. One God.

Okay, enough proselytising.

Let's discuss the "new" CF. One thing to make clear is that these are things that I want happen, and that will happen, and whether staff or members agree with them or not, they are what I believe to be the right things to do. Some, maybe a lot, may disagree, but I believe it's time for a MAJOR paradigm shift at CF.

Unlike what people might have mistakenly expected, the "new" CF is NOT going to happen overnight.

It's going to happen in stages. However, there are mainly going to be 2 stages:

1. The first stage is the CULTURE change stage. This is going to start happening from TODAY but will be an ongoing process. This will involve:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open
b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.
c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.
d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.
h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.
i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

The above outlines the setup of the new rules. A lot of the above cannot happen overnight, and will require some work. But the aim is for culture change at CF.

Many people, including current staff, will not be happy with the above, and some will quit, leave or resign. I bear you no ill-will - you do what you think is right, I do what I think is right. Yes, some of the above changes are controversial, and in fact, radical. But it's time for a total new way of looking at CF. We want to unite all Christians. Not just some.


2. The second stage is the TECHNOLOGY change stage. This is going to start happening over the next MONTH as this will involve extensive recoding and even software replacement. New features will be added. Members would have noticed that we have hit a hiatus in terms of new features being added and CF has not had a new feature for a long time. Well, I am looking at changing this. In the past, I've been the only server administrator, webmaster and coder. I've outsourced the server administration part of things, but there is room to outsource other things. The software behind CF requires a lot of improvements, and this WILL occur. I won't say too much about them because the second stage will be the part that will be most visible and trust me, when it happens, it will be obvious.


In other words, stage one, the culture change, is the change of CF's heart and soul, while stage two, the technology change, is the change of CF's look and body. In my mind, stage one is by far the most important. Both stages are hard to do.

Stage one starts now. Stage two will occur later and will mean some significant functionality changes.

[bible]2 Corinthians 1:10-12[/bible]


Let's go.

YES!!!!

 

[Joykins]

I agree with Aria that keeping soft-deleted copies of porno spam is not the best use of CF server resources.

 

[No Swansong]

NO

But porn is in the trash bins and it can be read if a mod undoes the soft delete. Porn is also left in some open threads, since once it is soft deleted, it is no longer viewable by members or staff. But staff did have the power to view soft deleted items when I was a mod a year ago.

Is the soft delete feature still the rule at CF?

Can Admins hard delete offensive posts and hard porn?

More importantly if everyone has a say so on the report thread what if they decide they like it and want it to stay?

 

[scraparcs]

I have NEVER seen porn posted in the staff forums, so I am rather disappointed that was implied by someone.

If a troll came to CF and posted porn, sometimes people would report it before the troll would get ebanned. Thus, you could unwittingly end up with report threads with porn in them that way.

 

[Brimshack]

That' one heck of a reform Erwin. I'm impressed. I know you're in for a headache or three, but from where I stand just setting out these goals earns you a great deal of respect.

(On non-Christians entering all the parts of the forum, I imagine that you could communicate expectations about what is and what is not appropriate without banning us outright. If I was sitting in a Church, I would not expect leeway to debate the pastor. I'm not saying there won't be problems, but I am saying they can be handled.)

 

[Alice the Sister]

I guess it was wrong of me. I don't want the porn brought to light, I want all the bad stuff brought to light. So we can discuss it, and possibly grow from it. I dunno, I guess I was aiming a little high. I forgive everyone, and everyone should forgive everyone...and I guess it doesn't even matter if we never know what we're forgiving them for. And from what I've heard, I don't know necessarily how helpful it would be to bring to light some of the stuff that has happened.

I suppose if people wanted to come forward and apologize it would be allright. I guess I was just kinda having an immature moment where I want to expose people for what they are, and get everything out in the open for all to see. But when I think about it...that's not what forgiveness is about. It was wrong of me to think that. If they want to come forward and fix what they've done then that's up to each individual.

I think I'm going to change my name now that CF has started a new chapter in her life.

 

[geocajun]

Actually I suspect most mods who have been diligently striving to serve CF will not be nominated because they have been doing their job and have become unpopular.

well, let me ask you this - since many protestant pastors are elected, do the ones who say things that folks need to hear, but don't really want to hear often find themselves kicked out?
I realize it isn't a perfect analogy to a moderator, but I think it does draw out the point.

 

[heavensangelwv]

I hope we atheists can behave ourselves.

As much as I disagree with Christian theology, I respect the right of Christians to have a place where they can go to discuss issues amongst each other without having every thread devolve into an attempt to prove to an atheist that God really exists.

I know I will try to be respectful of theads where it is apparent that an atheist's perspective is neither sought nor appreciated. I hope my fellow atheists will do the same.

I do have to agree with you. I do enjoy talking with non-Christians and discussing what they believe and why they believe it. However, I do also enjoy having a place where I can discuss things with only Christians. No offense, but I feel that there are some things that only other Christians can truly understand.

 

[Lisa0315]

Come on, you are judging this before he even has the time to post the specifics or even implement one part of the new CF. You really think he will let it just be a simple popularity contests and members will only elect those who will not enforce the rules? Do you believe there is no one here who wants the rules to be enforced fairly?

I agree. There is a difference in legalistic moderation and those who are doing their jobs. Most people who have been here any length of time know who is who. We want to keep the mods who are fair and unbiased. We will LOVE to be able to get rid of the power-tripping ones.

Lisa

 

[No Swansong]

Come on, you are judging this before he even has the time to post the specifics or even implement one part of the new CF. You really think he will let it just be a simple popularity contests and members will only elect those who will not enforce the rules? Do you believe there is no one here who wants the rules to be enforced fairly?

I'm sorry my friend but I haven't judged anything.

 

[CaDan]

You so totally owe Flesh99 and seebs a beta test fee.

 

[chaoschristian]

*reads Erwin's initial post*​

*drops bowling ball on other foot*​

...​

*kicks off bowling shoes and dances like David danced*​

 

[dignitized]

Perhaps a better method in line with Erwin's ideals would be that all those who gossipped and slandered behind closed doors actually ASK for forgiveness to those they offended. After all the "victim" would hardly know who to forgive would they if all is done in "seekrit"

You cannot force repentance or forgiveness. If this is for real, it's time to let go of old offenses and move on.