A new CF, an old vision (3)

[intricatic]

A decision made by you. Discrimination is a decision made by someone for you.

You are quite capable of understanding the difference, and I won't be wasting any more time on this point. I can understand the reasonableness of leaving, but to pretend this is discrimination by Erwin or CF is willful deception.

This is a decision made by someone for me. When I signed onto staff it was because I was under the impression Erwin wanted to run a ministry. This is why many of us feel betrayed; we've been essentially tossed out with the dirty laundry in terms of the vision we thought we were signing onto.

 

[Beastt]

i saw with my own eyes what erwin said was his vision for this site just four or five years ago. it was described nothing remotely similar to this.

Visions change and in this case, the changes were likely founded on the evidence produced from the failure of his former vision. Then again, the vision may have remained the same. The difficulty is in finding a way to make that vision a reality. The last attempt failed miserably. Continuing to try that which has consistently failed is a sign that you're not paying attention. Erwin is paying attention and he's reacting to what he's seen. But he is reacting as he chooses, not as I choose or as you choose.

i suppose its just easier to give into the most vocal members on the board than to maintain a consistent state in running things here though.

When a system consistently fails there is no reason to maintain that consistent system. The system here has been a failure since the time I first joined. And each time it failed, I dub my heels in more deeply and re-kindled my determination to stay.

No one should ever hold to a bad idea for the sake of tradition or consistency. If something doesn't work, try something else. If that doesn't work, try something you haven't tried. What has been tried hasn't worked. Try this.

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. - James 4:4 (random verse )

Great -- hate the world and be God's friend. I don't take that as good advice. How do you suppose that fits with, "for God so loved the world"?

 

[ProdicalChristian]

This is a decision made by someone for me. When I signed onto staff it was because I was under the impression Erwin wanted to run a ministry. This is why many of us feel betrayed; we've been essentially tossed out with the dirty laundry in terms of the vision we thought we were signing onto.

Depends on what kind of ministry you want to run. Ministries always have an agenda. Each ministries are different.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think the tactic of calling victims evil the perpetrators of evil is far too childish to gain any credibility amongst the majority of CF members

 

[drstevej]

Old Erwin

October 15, 2005

The rules have worked well for the 4 years we have been online. The contents of the Nicene Creed were drafted by the early church fathers to delineate the fundmental doctrines of Christianity and to battle heresies and cults that were around at the time. It's not the Nicene Creed, but the doctrines that it sets out, which are all backed up by the verses referenced - we do not ask that members affirm the Creed itself in order to post in the Christian-only sections, but the verses that are referenced and the doctrines that come out of the verses.

New Erwin. Nicene Creed no longer relevant.

e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

 

[ProdicalChristian]

I think the tactic of calling victims evil the perpetrators of evil is far too childish to gain any credibility amongst the majority of CF members

I agree with you there.

 

[ProdicalChristian]

Old Erwin

October 15, 2005



New Erwin. Nicene Creed no longer relevant.

I understand and I personally don't like it. At the same time, I am happy to have opportunities share my faith more freely without restrictions (which I have left in the first place under a different name).

 

[Sabbie]

After rereading the new changes it smacks of a more "constitutional" approach to CF. Freedom of religion, for example. Will we also be following other constitutional views such as freedom of speech? Any speech in any forum? If not then you cannot pick and choose your standards.
If the melting pot is about to boil then kick out the Nicene Creed and use the Constitution as your guide.

 

[Blank123]

Visions change and in this case, the changes were likely founded on the evidence produced from the failure of his former vision. Then again, the vision may have remained the same. The difficulty is in finding a way to make that vision a reality. The last attempt failed miserably. Continuing to try that which has consistently failed is a sign that you're not paying attention. Erwin is paying attention and he's reacting to what he's seen. But he is reacting as he chooses, not as I choose or as you choose.


When a system consistently fails there is no reason to maintain that consistent system. The system here has been a failure since the time I first joined. And each time it failed, I dub my heels in more deeply and re-kindled my determination to stay.

No one should ever hold to a bad idea for the sake of tradition or consistency. If something doesn't work, try something else. If that doesn't work, try something you haven't tried. What has been tried hasn't worked. Try this.

failed in what way?

Great -- hate the world and be God's friend. I don't take that as good advice. How do you suppose that fits with, "for God so loved the world"?

very easily, you just have to understand what real love is - and i'll give you a clue. The kind that is being talked about here and in the modern church where we need to be all inclusive to the point of rejecting doctrine ain't it. I would hope that Erwin, as a church elder, would have known that.

 

[ALiberalTeen]

Old Erwin

October 15, 2005

New Erwin. Nicene Creed no longer relevant.

People change, Ideas change

 

[porterross]

Can the truth stand on its own? That is the only question. If it cannot then it is not the truth and we should find the real truth. All the deception in the world cannot stand up to the light of truth. All your statement does is show fear of actually being challenged. Are you afraid there are more of them than there are of us? Are you afraid their arguments will be persuasive? Are you scared your ideas are not actually truth? The truth needs no protection.

If your logic were sound, there would have been no Jonestown Guyana, Branch Davidian incident in Waco, Heaven's Gate, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.

How do those victims rely on the prevalence of the Truth or is it the fault of orthodox Christianity, as well?

 

[Auntie]

I haven't been able to view the other threads. This is the first one I've been able to get to load.

My opinion is this:

Let things work themselves out. If the new changes don't work, I trust that Erwin will make adjustments.

We either trust Erwin or we don't. Nothing here is written in blood, and we have had many changes in the past. Let's give Erwin's new plan a chance. And trust that he will make adjustments when necessary.

 

[Lisa0315]

You know? It was never the Nicene Creed that was the problem. It was those who claimed to know Jesus, but acted like the devil in GT.

So, whether we have the Nicene Creed or not, we are going to know who is Christian simply by the way they act.

Lisa

 

[ProdicalChristian]

People change, Ideas change

Yes.. Erwin is not God and at the same time, Christians are so "divided" by doctrines, what can he do? Allow God to take this in His hands. Sounds like what I would do.

 

[Sabbie]

People and ideas may change but standards and values do not.

 

[Lisa0315]

I haven't been able to view the other threads. This is the first one I've been able to get to load.

My opinion is this:

Let things work themselves out. If the new changes don't work, I trust that Erwin will make adjustments.

We either trust Erwin or we don't. Nothing here is written in blood, and we have had many changes in the past. Let's give Erwin's new plan a chance. And trust that he will make adjustments when necessary.

 

[porterross]

People change, Ideas change

God does not change.

 

[Calliso]

I haven't been able to view the other threads. This is the first one I've been able to get to load.

My opinion is this:

Let things work themselves out. If the new changes don't work, I trust that Erwin will make adjustments.

We either trust Erwin or we don't. Nothing here is written in blood, and we have had many changes in the past. Let's give Erwin's new plan a chance. And trust that he will make adjustments when necessary.

I agree! I think everyone needs to just take a deep breath and relax a little here!

 

[ProdicalChristian]

If your logic were sound, there would have been no Jonestown Guyana, Branch Davidian incident in Waco, Heaven's Gate, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.

How do those victims rely on the prevalence of the Truth or is it the fault of orthodox Christianity, as well?

Actually, in one of my post, I quote

Christianity will always be running against the prevailing movement of society with individualistic doctrinal beliefs which resulted rejecting and intimidating people who get in the way. We are in the world of self-deceit that we are too focused on ourselves to see the eternal truth. Church politics, controversies and worldliness have brought in the darkness that people cannot see the light. Hypocrisy is the acknowledgment of an achievement which sin pays to a quality that gives something special value of false teachings. Jesus Christ was executed by people who were very much like us that we are no different because we have been corrupting the Church and allow human reasoning get in the way of truth.

 

[Ginny]

I can tell you this, some members will coming back with this new CF.

of course they will...it's kinda like when you went off to college...no one around anymore to tell you what to do.

You can do and say what you want, when you want, and how you want to do it with no repercussion.

Welcome to Hell, my friends.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

We either trust Erwin or we don't.

You can't just automatically trust someone you don't know. Nor do we blindly follow someone just b/c they "own" a website. Besides, there's a million other forums going on outside of this one with the SAME posters.

CF is a stumbling block and will continue to be. The name needs to be changed.