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A new CF, an old vision (3)

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Beastt

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Child, it is sickening.
Telling me what I have done wrong?
Try "bigotry". You're setting yourself above others and allowing yourself to be sickened based on an unsupportable personal opinion that you're automatically better than others simply because of the beliefs you hold.

I take my advice from Christians, those who know the Lord.
Some Christians who have every bit as much substantiation for a claim of knowing the Lord would disagree -- fortunately.

Sorry if it insults you and that's where you find the"hatred" but I am only speaking truth.
You're speaking your mind and that's what these new changes are all about. But I find your ethics, morality and personal feeling of entitlement to be disturbing.

Christian Forums turned Secular and Politically Correct. Sickening.
Where do you read "secular" in anything posted or suggested? And what's so wrong with observing evidence? It's the way every single aspect of your life aside from religion operates.
 
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porterross

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It was brought to my attention that what I said there was over-sensitive and myopic. My apologies for that. My gut reaction does get it wrong at times.

No problem.


No, nooooooo. I really don't believe you hate me. That would be silly to believe and when one person from this forum told me she hated me for real I was kinda shocked. How anyone can hate someone based on posts on a message board is beyond me. I never thought you did.

Good. I would be saddened if I thought that were true.

However, from reading that quoted paragraph I feel like you're comparing me to Satan - the ultimate evil in the Christian religion - and that makes me kinda sad.

Then you need to re-read your first paragraph again. Your feelings have it wrong again. No one is satan but satan. I was speaking to an audience in general as you were in the paragraph to which I replied.


I am well aware of the fact that I tend to come off as abrasive online but 99% of the time I really mean no harm.

You're not alone there.

Cheers :)
 
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CaDan

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The absolutely unpardonable thing was not his concern for the sick, the cripples, the lepers, the possessed; not the way he put up with women and children around him; not even his partisanship for the poor, humble people. The real trouble was that he got involved with moral failures, with obviously irreligious and immoral people; people morally and politically suspect, so many dubious, obscure, abandoned, hopeless types existing as an ineradicable evil on the fringe of every society. That was the real scandal.​

Hans Küng ~ On Being a Christian
 
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TheBear

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What are you talking about now Bear?
How did they survive without phones?
How did they survive without cars?
How did they survive without toilet paper and a comode that flushes?

Guess some things you will just never know bear.
You not only missed my point entirely, but you made it personal. Have I said anything to your character, your knowledge or anything personal? No. I made the point that for thousands of years, churches got along just fine, and still do, without internet message boards. Some churches instruct the congregation to stay away from the internet altogether. They think it's all the work of the devil.


BTW - I don't mind discussing this with you, as long as you keep the personal snipes out of it.
 
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TasManOfGod

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Despite those who might think differently , I honestly believe that we owe it to staff that they have the ability to feel free to repent of their ungodly deeds toward members when they know those deeds have inflicted anguish to those members. To further bind those staff members in the bondage of secret oaths and things further inflicts psychological conflict into an already perverse situation.
 
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HELENz

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Wow! 2,647 posts on this thread since Erwin started it yesterday!

Gonna be interesting I think. Big changes overall, will affect some a lot, some not so much and some, it aint gonna affect at all I think.

gonna be just observin....
Like usual? *meant in good humor. please don't take offensively* :D
 
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Tonks

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I'd vote ya in Tonks;) I think your a great moderator, despite whether or not your Catholic:p

HA!

I'd like to see the new CF work - particularly as I've spent a lot of time here. I think that the new annoucement currently lacks that "vision thing" which is, among other things, why I'm having some problems at the moment.

I've already seen lists going around on other boards on who should be the "new staff," nose counts being taken, and "possible policies" drawn up. To me that is too much "old boss is the same as the new boss..."
 
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Brimshack

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I6t's interesting the degree to which minor aspects of Erwin's vision have taken over the perception of this reform. Is allowing non-Christains into the Congregation forum so shocking? That is hardly an endorsement of non-Christian views. And Erwin has said that non-Christians COULD be elected as moderators. He hasn't encouraged that, nor has he suggested it is likely. How this abstract possibility amounts to secularization of the forums is beyond me. The substance of the reform is procedural. What Erwin is saying is that the membership will decide, not that the decision will be x, y, and z.
 
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seekingmyLord

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I wonder if our definitions of "oppression" aren't terribly different. I see oppression as acting to keep people from saying things you don't want them to say, going places you don't want them to go and having authority you want to keep only for yourself. That's what we've had here.

The new system is one where people are allowed to speak their mind, even if you or I don't particularly care for what they say. It lets them visit parts of the forum which were always off-limits to them in the past. It gives them the opportunity to show themselves to be the kind of people others would want in positions of limited authority, even if their theology or ideology isn't the same.

I don't see that as oppression. If I may be so bold I think your objections are based on the loss of ability to oppress those you think you should have the right to oppress.


I think the evidence is spread all through the history of Christianity. Not that there isn't a long way left to go but certainly it's the rare Christian today who would actually promote the slaughter of children or the idea of washing their feet in the blood of a slaughtered human, simply because they see them as an enemy. Most today can't even tolerate a God who creates evil; to the point that they've actually relieved him of that duty by changing the wording of the Bible.


And man will always be man. But that speaks of biology (which slowly changes), not of ideology. People can and do learn. The first step is to give them the ability by discontinuing a system of dictating their every action to them as has been done in the past. Let people develop personal responsibility and most of them will. If you continually dictate your brand of responsibility to them, all you'll foster is their hatred for you and the oppression you exercise over them.
First, that was a rather boldly stated assumption about me personally. Why is it that when some people debate an issue they have to degrade someone personally?

Second, I am not here to debate you what you perceive as fallacies in the Bible. I would like to point out that even though I have not pushed my ideology at you, you just did it to me and it was completely off topic.

Third, if this entire post is any indication that this is the way you think the NEW CF should be... you have just proved my point. Whose brand of responsibility are you expecting me to follow now--yours?

See how this works, folks? There will be always be oppression, it is just a matter of who is going to be doing it.
 
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HELENz

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Tonks, I love your Custom Title, btw. I've been feeling a bit frustrated about the stuff with CF. I mean, some of the ideas are good; Some of them just make me wonder what's going to happen to this forum (and if it's going to go downhill).
 
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Tonks

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I6t's interesting the degree to which minor aspects of Erwin's vision have taken over the perception of this reform. Is allowing non-Christains into the Congregation forum so shocking? That is hardly an endorsement of non-Christian views.

This change was already in the works. I'm not sure how it would be implemented but from my understanding there was going to be a freeing up of the Congregational fora restrictions.

Of course, that is sort of moot now.
 
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seekingmyLord

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HA!
I've already seen lists going around on other boards on who should be the "new staff," nose counts being taken, and "possible policies" drawn up. To me that is too much "old boss is the same as the new boss..."
This person gets it! :thumbsup:
 
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Beastt

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You are basically saying the same as I did except for one crucial point. I do believe that there is perfection in the universe... but you already knew that I would say that, didn't you?
Please point it out to me. That doesn't mean squeezing off a word. It means defining "perfection" and then demonstrating that it exists.

I have only been here a very short time, but overall I think the climate is going to be just as oppressive by the formerly oppressed and I will probably be on the wrong side to appreciate that in the way you will.
So it would appear that you have been here far less time than have many others including myself. On top of that, I can't recall ever seeing you in the Debate sections of the forum so it's very likely you've never witness the abuses of power and prejudice those of use who were confined to those areas have seen.

You can think the climate will be just as oppressive, but the dynamic here has changed. It is no longer a small few obtaining power for themselves and then dictating to everyone else. Anyone who tries that must face the reality that their stay in a position of authority will be rather short and once removed from that position, they have to face all of the people they may have wronged while standing on equal footing. We've never had that here before. People could obtain positions and behave like tyrants and there was little anyone could do about it. It happened and it happened frequently. I saw staff violating rules, berating other staff members, speaking down to entire threads and generally acting in a manner which shed a very poor light on their proclaimed personal beliefs.

I know they have chosen to leave and it would be because they feel pushed out. Haven't you ever just felt unwelcomed?
I've not only felt unwelcome but powerless. And there will continue to be times when certain people feel unwelcome. But there is no longer any reason to feel powerless. If a person in a position of authority breaks the rules of the forum, they'll now have to answer for it and do so publicly. Under the old system they could (and did), do anything they wanted and if you said anything about it they'd shut you down, delete your posts, issue warnings and even threaten to ban. Many people were banned for pointing out staff members who were violating rules at will. I even had one indicate to me that he didn't much care about Erwin's directive which I carry in my signature. He was going to do what he wanted to do and showed no caution about telling me straight out that Erwin's directive didn't mean anything. I would say that it means something now.

But, let's look at that greener grass on the other side of the fence. Now they will not have that power and those who opposed them probably will. You are on that side so you naturally are happier.
I think you're missing the point that the entire dynamic has changed. There are no more mechanisms by which to violate the rules, bully people around and keep it all quiet. If anyone does this now it will be obvious to the populous and the populous will have a say in whether or not disciplinary action recommended by the staff member should be carried out. It's an open system where it was often closed, hidden, protected and devious before.

No, by all means, let the mob rule!
The word "mob" usually refers to an unruly, chaotic gathering using violence as their means to effect change. What I'm talking about is simple democracy. I find it amazing how many people think democracy is a great means of government so long as it doesn't affect their personal little dictatorships. If you don't like democracy just come out and say so rather than utilizing words like "mob" in place of "majority" to try to make it sound distasteful.

That is the only way people are going to see how they themselves can become what they hated once they have the power.
"The power" you speak of is all but gone now. There are no longer any unanswerable positions of power in which to hide and torment the populous. From now on, there will be transparency and answerability to prevent the kind of behavior you're suggesting. It won't be perfect, but it will be far closer than the system we've had.

If you knew the stories I could tell... perhaps you'd find reason to pause and reflect.
 
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ravenscape

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I6t's interesting the degree to which minor aspects of Erwin's vision have taken over the perception of this reform. Is allowing non-Christains into the Congregation forum so shocking? That is hardly an endorsement of non-Christian views. And Erwin has said that non-Christians COULD be elected as moderators. He hasn't encouraged that, nor has he suggested it is likely. How this abstract possibility amounts to secularization of the forums is beyond me. The substance of the reform is procedural. What Erwin is saying is that the membership will decide, not that the decision will be x, y, and z.
Yup. That's what I've gathered from the announcement. Looks to me like the future of CF will be what the members of CF choose to make of it.
 
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