A little scared about heaven.

[Kees Boer]

So they say, but outside of "Joy" being more like a drug high, where how you feel is independent of your circumstances, which is what people say, that you'll have joy even if your circumstances are unpleasant, I mean, that is why people use drugs, to feel euphoria despite bad circumstances..
the circumstances there don't appear to really be things I'm really excited about, veganism is one of those things. No oceans, no night, everyone single and celibate, yeah I can't say the circumstances seem that great by themselves, at least not for me.

I've often thought of John 14, where Jesus said He'll prepare a place for us, but then, the description is like, all contrary to things that I like.
So it's akin to going to your grandparent's house as a kid, you love them, and want to see them, but there's not a lot to do where they live so you kind of suffer through everything else to spend time visiting them.
So it's like you suffer through a place that you don't really feel fits you, to see Jesus.

I know, it sounds bizarre, to think of heaven as something I stoically have to endure just to see Christ, but that's how it feels coming from a nightowl who likes oceans and prefers steaks to fruits, and in life, well, I don't get to live anywhere near an ocean, have tried but it has always washed out eventually, don't get to eat much meat (I can have chicken that's about it), cause of medical concerns, and every time I've prayed when there's been a chance to see Aurora Borealis.. well
ask for bread, get a stone, it got really cloudy those nights instead.
So I stopped asking.

So .. not really a place for me, a place for Him that I just have to weather, not like there's a better alternative.
My enjoyment of things seems to be irrelevant I guess.

The best here on earth is just a small reflection of what heaven will be like. In this, trust the Lord. He loves you enough to die for you and He came that you would have life and have it abundantly.

 

[Jamdoc]

The best here on earth is just a small reflection of what heaven will be like. In this, trust the Lord. He loves you enough to die for you and He came that you would have life and have it abundantly.

So what's with the ask for bread, receive stone treatment I get now?
Virtually everything I have prayed for, has resulted in closing a door making it impossible instead.

I prayed for healing from one autoimmune disease, and instead developed a second on top of the first.
Sometimes I'm scared to ask for anything because it seems like it just makes things worse.

 

[Kees Boer]

So what's with the ask for bread, receive stone treatment I get now?
Virtually everything I have prayed for, has resulted in closing a door making it impossible instead.

I prayed for healing from one autoimmune disease, and instead developed a second on top of the first.
Sometimes I'm scared to ask for anything because it seems like it just makes things worse.

I'm so sorry to hear about your autoimmune disease. That sounds horrible. I'm so sorry. It's a bit difficult for me to respond to, because I don't know your circumstances, but I'll try. God will do what is best for the believers. At times this means suffering. The best example is Joseph. He was sold into slavery or human trafficking. He was falsely accused of rape and went to jail for 13 years. He was forgotten, when he interpreted the dreams. And finally God raised him up and ended up saving the entire nation of Israel, and through that the Messiah came. Joseph said in Gen. 50:20, that the brothers of Joseph meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.

If you have trusted Christ as your Savior, that He died on the cross and paid for your sins and rose from the dead, then you are God's child and you can trust God in the midst of very difficult circumstances. I'm a missionary in South America in very poor areas. So, we have to deal with very difficult circumstances too, but we need to trust the Lord in the midst of this.

Modern day examples of these are the five missionaries, who were killed by the Auca indians in Ecuador and Corrie ten Boom.

I hope this all doesn't sound too harsh... The good news is that our hope is in Jesus Christ. If you trusted Him as Savior, you will get a brand new glorified body.

 

[Jamdoc]

I'm so sorry to hear about your autoimmune disease. That sounds horrible. I'm so sorry. It's a bit difficult for me to respond to, because I don't know your circumstances, but I'll try. God will do what is best for the believers. At times this means suffering. The best example is Joseph. He was sold into slavery or human trafficking. He was falsely accused of rape and went to jail for 13 years. He was forgotten, when he interpreted the dreams. And finally God raised him up and ended up saving the entire nation of Israel, and through that the Messiah came. Joseph said in Gen. 50:20, that the brothers of Joseph meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.

If you have trusted Christ as your Savior, that He died on the cross and paid for your sins and rose from the dead, then you are God's child and you can trust God in the midst of very difficult circumstances. I'm a missionary in South America in very poor areas. So, we have to deal with very difficult circumstances too, but we need to trust the Lord in the midst of this.

Modern day examples of these are the five missionaries, who were killed by the Auca indians in Ecuador and Corrie ten Boom.

I hope this all doesn't sound too harsh... The good news is that our hope is in Jesus Christ. If you trusted Him as Savior, you will get a brand new glorified body.

Well, I just don't think that MY enjoyment of things is the goal, or really what God's concerned over. God is more concerned with holiness than happiness, and the two aren't the same thing.

 

[Kees Boer]

Well, I just don't think that MY enjoyment of things is the goal, or really what God's concerned over. God is more concerned with holiness than happiness, and the two aren't the same thing.

God loves you. But He is concerned about the souls of men. Remember Jesus Christ gave His life for all humans... People are dying every day and headed for an eternity without Christ. Happiness is dependent on your circumstances. God is working in your life to make you just like Christ. I understand sickness. I've been sick and in and out of hospitals here in South America for the last 14 months. And during that time got Covid and broke my arm and three teeth... We just give thanks. But this day, I shared the Gospel with someone and they trusted Christ as Savior. So, all of heaven was rejoicing. Or there was joy in the heart of God... I think you might appreciate this video I made.

 

[Kees Boer]

P.S. I like Corgi.... I had two in the USA.

 

[Jamdoc]

God loves you. But He is concerned about the souls of men. Remember Jesus Christ gave His life for all humans... People are dying every day and headed for an eternity without Christ. Happiness is dependent on your circumstances. God is working in your life to make you just like Christ. I understand sickness. I've been sick and in and out of hospitals here in South America for the last 14 months. And during that time got Covid and broke my arm and three teeth... We just give thanks. But this day, I shared the Gospel with someone and they trusted Christ as Savior. So, all of heaven was rejoicing. Or there was joy in the heart of God... I think you might appreciate this video I made.

Yes I'm aware that circumstances here are not permanent so we can have hope and joy in spite of rough circumstances knowing that they are temporary.
Problem is, from what is in the bible, the circumstances on the New Earth don't sound that great for me anyway, and those are permanent. There's no hope beyond those.
and it just makes me wish I was never created, because I'm sure those circumstances described sound great to many people just not me.
I feel incompatible, so I wish I was never created to begin with, to be incompatible, and brainwashing me to *make* me compatible.. what's the point? That's a rejection of me, to change me into a doppleganger who wears my body uses my name, but is not me.

and if I'm just going to be rejected by my own creator and replaced by someone else who is "compatible" with the circumstances, there was no point in creating me in the first place who is incompatible.

anyway, I posted what scripture said about the New Earth and it was deleted, so I guess I have to go with other people's ideas of the new earth, the "stare at Jesus and be so high you don't care about anything else" and "God will brainwash you so you like doing nothing but singing to Him" views of eternity.

even if they make me unbearably depressed.

 

[Mark Quayle]

So what's with the ask for bread, receive stone treatment I get now?
Virtually everything I have prayed for, has resulted in closing a door making it impossible instead.

I prayed for healing from one autoimmune disease, and instead developed a second on top of the first.
Sometimes I'm scared to ask for anything because it seems like it just makes things worse.

CS Lewis writes of the pleasures and sufferings on this earth, as viewed from Heaven. (My words here, not having his at hand): When we get to Heaven and look back, the self-indulgent "if I can only have this one little pleasure for a moment, no big deal" will look like total loss, but the suffering will appear full of God's goodness.

 

[RevealedTruths]

Just stop listening to interpretations of the Bible by prudish church pastors and read it for yourself. Ask the Spirit for wisdom and guidance and don't count on the internet for help. After all, the internet is the Image of the Beast...

 

[Jamdoc]

Just stop listening to interpretations of the Bible by prudish church pastors and read it for yourself. Ask the Spirit for wisdom and guidance and don't count on the internet for help. After all, the internet is the Image of the Beast...

You do realize I get the descriptions of all marine life being killed, no seas, no night, and veganism from the bible right?

 

[Jamdoc]

CS Lewis writes of the pleasures and sufferings on this earth, as viewed from Heaven. (My words here, not having his at hand): When we get to Heaven and look back, the self-indulgent "if I can only have this one little pleasure for a moment, no big deal" will look like total loss, but the suffering will appear full of God's goodness.

Yes I get it, CS Lewis and the Catholic mindset regarding heaven is "it's not about you, so just get over yourself and serve your betters"
It's the same "who cares about your circumstances just enjoy your high" theology.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Had someone tell me that in heaven and the new earth, all we do is stand around God and sing praise for eternity. Over. and. Over. Again.

Now, please forgive me Lord, as I hate typing this, but sadly its true, that sounds EXTREMELY boring. Just singing forever? I mean its better then hell but its undoubtedly worse then it is here on earth. Which is why my alarms in my head went off that maybe this wasnt true. Heaven is supposed to be earth but WAY better right? Will we have jobs? Hobbies? Technology? Or are we really just going to...sing..

All church is is singing psalms and hymns and listening to God speak for about an hour. We don't complain about church so why should heaven be any different?

I think it is and heaven is greater than our wildest dreams but so what if heaven is just like church? I for one look forward to worshipping God in his eternal kingdom forever.

 

[Jamdoc]

All church is is singing psalms and hymns and listening to God speak for about an hour. We don't complain about church so why should heaven be any different?

I think it is and heaven is greater than our wildest dreams but so what if heaven is just like church? I for one look forward to worshipping God in his eternal kingdom forever.

I dunno I've seen plenty of pastors kinda get a feel from the congregation in particular their wives that they need to wrap things up when they're talking a lot, I'd count that as complaining if they're wanting it to wrap up and be over, and I think any lack of complaining could be attributed to the fact that it's an hour.
If it were to continue on forever? I think everyone would be complaining. Doing the same thing on repeat for long periods of time simply bores people. Even doing your favorite thing or eating your favorite food gets tiresome with enough repetition.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I dunno I've seen plenty of pastors kinda get a feel from the congregation in particular their wives that they need to wrap things up when they're talking a lot, I'd count that as complaining if they're wanting it to wrap up and be over, and I think any lack of complaining could be attributed to the fact that it's an hour.
If it were to continue on forever? I think everyone would be complaining. Doing the same thing on repeat for long periods of time simply bores people. Even doing your favorite thing or eating your favorite food gets tiresome with enough repetition.

Well yeah churches have luncheons and special events and whatnot but a majority of our Sunday worship is singing and listening to the pastor. The longest part is the sermon and I'm sure in Heaven God will be talking with us too.

Scripture says that we are going to eat with Jesus so I can just imagine one big long supper table with Jesus at the head. There's obviously going to be more I was just kind of making the point that heaven will be a lot like church.

To me being a sinless child of God listening to and worshipping my Father would be sufficient enough of an eternity.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Well yeah churches have luncheons and special events and whatnot but a majority of our Sunday worship is singing and listening to the pastor. The longest part is the sermon and I'm sure in Heaven God will be talking with us too.

Scripture says that we are going to eat with Jesus so I can just imagine one big long supper table with Jesus at the head. There's obviously going to be more I was just kind of making the point that heaven will be a lot like church.

To me being a sinless child of God listening to and worshipping my Father would be sufficient enough of an eternity.

Sinless and complete. Amen, Brother.

 

[Jamdoc]

Well yeah churches have luncheons and special events and whatnot but a majority of our Sunday worship is singing and listening to the pastor. The longest part is the sermon and I'm sure in Heaven God will be talking with us too.

Scripture says that we are going to eat with Jesus so I can just imagine one big long supper table with Jesus at the head. There's obviously going to be more I was just kind of making the point that heaven will be a lot like church.

To me being a sinless child of God listening to and worshipping my Father would be sufficient enough of an eternity.

Yes but an eternal church service doing the same thing over and over forever would be kind of hell after awhile. Less fire, but suffering in its own way. We're human beings, not robots that just execute one program over and over ad infimum.

It isn't what the bible teaches anyway, not that heaven will be a lot like church (unless you just mean the intermmediate state which maybe that could be the case), but there is an earthlike existence, there are just several changes to Earth. But the basic idea of living on earth, growing food, building houses and interacting with other people and animals carry over.

 

[Kees Boer]

Yes but an eternal church service doing the same thing over and over forever would be kind of hell after awhile. Less fire, but suffering in its own way. We're human beings, not robots that just execute one program over and over ad infimum.

It isn't what the bible teaches anyway, not that heaven will be a lot like church (unless you just mean the intermmediate state which maybe that could be the case), but there is an earthlike existence, there are just several changes to Earth. But the basic idea of living on earth, growing food, building houses and interacting with other people and animals carry over.

Well, yes, I won't be an eternal church service. Many of them are very boring... And the music is all the same... But when you enter heaven, YOU WILL BE CHANGED. You're looking at it from your earthly life. (Deut. 1:27)

 

[Jamdoc]

Well, yes, I won't be an eternal church service. Many of them are very boring... And the music is all the same... But when you enter heaven, YOU WILL BE CHANGED. You're looking at it from your earthly life. (Deut. 1:27)

The verse isn't really supporting that claim..
but the context points to something else, and that is, that they did not believe that God could get them to the promised land because of the enemies that lived there. Not that they didn't believe the promised land was a good land flowing with milk and honey, a plentiful land to be desired.

I believe Jesus can get me there, what I struggle with is that the circumstances there will be a place I can call home. But rather I worry about it being just another refugee camp which is all I have ever known.

and how can it be home? It's beaten into you by every pastor that you don't deserve to be there, and you're only there by grace, that feels less like home and more like.. a refugee camp, like you're accepting someone's hospitality and they won't let you forget that you're only there because "it's the Christian thing to do"
It's like the only home we ever had, was Eden, where God created us to be, and we lost it.
and we've been in a war zone and refugee camps ever since.

for many people I suppose, it will feel like home, and to their liking.
but me, I dunno, I just don't feel like I fit in.

 

[Kees Boer]

I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience in a refugee camp. I would love to talk with you about it some time... I'm sure you can tell a lot of experiences, that I have never experienced...

The only thing I can say is that God loved you so much that He sacrificed His Son for you on the cross. If you trusted Him as Savior, you will go to heaven. And He that sacrificed His Son on the cross for you, will He not also give you all things. He plain loves you. And He understands you. The thing that Deut. 1:27 would apply to you is that these Hebrews didn't believe God. They grumbled in their tents and thought that God hated them.

I've not been to heaven of course. There is not too much description of heaven. I just trust the Lord that with that much love for me that this will be a place that is so wonderful beyond imagination. You can trust in Him about that. Be sure that you have trusted Christ as Savior.

 

[Jamdoc]

I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience in a refugee camp. I would love to talk with you about it some time... I'm sure you can tell a lot of experiences, that I have never experienced...

No no no, you do have experience in a refugee camp, that's what Earth is lol.. sorry if you got the wrong idea there. nono. I mean
Eden was our home, it is where God created us to be, but we got expelled, that makes us all refugees, in a hostile spiritual war zone.
I say refugee camp as a means to depict that this place is not our home, it's a place that we live while we cannot return home.

The only thing I can say is that God loved you so much that He sacrificed His Son for you on the cross. If you trusted Him as Savior, you will go to heaven. And He that sacrificed His Son on the cross for you, will He not also give you all things. He plain loves you. And He understands you. The thing that Deut. 1:27 would apply to you is that these Hebrews didn't believe God. They grumbled in their tents and thought that God hated them.

It's a little bit different. They had been told by God that it was a good land and that He would make sure they would possess it. The scouts returned and confirmed, it was a good land, but that it was inhabited by fierce people and most of the scouts and people they reported to had doubts that they could capture the land, The trust in God was not that the land was not good, but that they didn't believe that God could get them there.

My doubts are not in God's ability to get me there, but rather if I will be happy there and feel like I belong there.
and those doubts are fueled by descriptions of the new earth explicitly lacking things that I like.

Okay imagine yourself losing your current home, and everything that belongs to you, and then a benefactor says "I'll make you a new home"
but then when they open the door to show you your new home, it's decorated for a 6 year old girl, all pink, with posters of barbie and power puff girls and my little pony and whatever else you could imagine suitable for a young girl, but not really suitable for you, a grown man.

That's the situation. I believe the benefactor (Jesus) will get me a new place to live in, just from the descriptions of it it sounds suitable for someone else, not really me, it wouldn't feel like "home"

and with the talk of you being there by Grace, and not even deserving to be there, reinforces the feel that you might never feel you belong there or are home.

So the lack of trust of feeling at home on the New Earth I don't find unfounded, not for me at least, because I have I guess strange likes, so when Jesus says "I will make a place for you" it seems like it's a place for the disciples, and a place for you, but not really a place for me. Scripture describes aspects that don't suit me, so that makes me feel like I don't belong, and scripture reinforces that I'm there by grace, and don't deserve to be there, so that reinforces feeling like I don't belong.

Both aspects are based in scripture, so how do I trust AGAINST scripture?