A little scared about heaven.

[*LILAC]

People who have the notion that heaven will somehow be boring, are deceived. It will be nothing like we know on this earth, but yes, we will have things to do.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

So I agree with pretty much everything you wrote but I just wanted to point out that as I've seen Revelation 19 differently than I have in the past.. the wedding supper of the lamb is not what you think.

So.. traditional interpretation with the popular imagery, the wedding supper of the lamb takes place in heaven and then John was on Earth and he saw the heaven's opened up and Jesus and the saints ride down on flying white horses... they think it's the second coming but...

a simple question changed how I view that chapter Where was John when he saw these things?
John wasn't on Earth looking up at the heavens opening up.
John was in heaven and saw them opened up, and saw Jesus on a white horse, already dipped in blood. Isaiah 63 gives the same imagery and so Jesus had already been on Earth.. and something else stuck out to me. In other scenes in heaven in Revelation, the lamb is always present, you have the elders, you have the 4 beasts, you have the saints/bride, you have God sitting on the throne, and you have the lamb/Jesus.
In Revelation 19, the Lamb is referred to, but not actually shown to be there in the scene. It's not until the heavens open up that we see the Lamb.

SO.. wedding supper of the lamb, takes place on Earth, not Heaven, the bride is made ready in heaven, rejoins Jesus on Earth, and watches Him finish off the Antichrist, False Prophet, and their armies.

Then...


So.. maybe the wedding supper of the lamb is "for the birds" you might say.

Maybe I'm off, maybe it's like you think.. but.. now I can't shake that vision of it all. Jesus on Earth before Revelation 19.. and the wedding supper of the lamb being Jesus' victory over the Antichrist and False prophet.
I'm sure there will be a lot of feasting and rejoicing during Tabernacles in the Millennial Kingdom.
But I don't know if it's the wedding supper of the lamb.

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The last verse shows that there is food and drink in heaven. I believe the supper is just that, a meal with Jesus to celebrate salvation.

 

[Jamdoc]

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The last verse shows that there is food and drink in heaven. I believe the supper is just that, a meal with Jesus to celebrate salvation.

Oh I wasn't arguing that, I absolutely agree, I was just saying that the particular "wedding supper of the lamb" seems to be an almost cheeky reference to Jesus' final victory over the Antichrist and False prophet and the carrion feeding birds. Just the context of the passage.

Jesus often used descriptions of banquets and feasts to describe heaven, and one of the first things He did when resurrected is eat with His disciples.

So yes 100% there will be eating and drinking on the New Earth.

In fact I'd say Jesus wouldn't have it any other way than to have eating and drinking, almost everything that existed pre-fall is definitely being restored. The couple things I'm not entirely sure about are childbearing (Matthew 22:30 says no, Isaiah 65:23 maybe says yes), or oceans and ocean life (Revelation 21:1 would suggest no, but other passages talk about bodies of water and fish on the new Earth, I can't think of where they are off the top of my head, I think the later parts of Ezekiel), though that one at least could be symbolic.

But Eating and Drinking is one of the things God gave as a gift to things on the Earth in Genesis 1. The only question is whether people will be able to eat meat or if we're all going vegan.

So OP should actually feel a bit better just regarding that, if there's eating and drinking that means singing is absolutely not the only activity.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Had someone tell me that in heaven and the new earth, all we do is stand around God and sing praise for eternity. Over. and. Over. Again.

Now, please forgive me Lord, as I hate typing this, but sadly its true, that sounds EXTREMELY boring. Just singing forever? I mean its better then hell but its undoubtedly worse then it is here on earth. Which is why my alarms in my head went off that maybe this wasnt true. Heaven is supposed to be earth but WAY better right? Will we have jobs? Hobbies? Technology? Or are we really just going to...sing..

Some people have whats called a "near death experience". You can read them online easily enough.

On youtube, you can search for Howard Storm for example and he talks about what he experienced. The beginning is pretty rough reading but it gets better after that.

 

[RevealedTruths]

People who have the notion that heaven will somehow be boring, are deceived. It will be nothing like we know on this earth, but yes, we will have things to do.

Except that nobody goes to "heaven", for it is written, blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

 

[Kees Boer]

Had someone tell me that in heaven and the new earth, all we do is stand around God and sing praise for eternity. Over. and. Over. Again.

Now, please forgive me Lord, as I hate typing this, but sadly its true, that sounds EXTREMELY boring. Just singing forever? I mean its better then hell but its undoubtedly worse then it is here on earth. Which is why my alarms in my head went off that maybe this wasnt true. Heaven is supposed to be earth but WAY better right? Will we have jobs? Hobbies? Technology? Or are we really just going to...sing..

I can totally relate to you. I grew up in Holland and in the church there was a song that basically said that... I remember as a child thinking, that after even a few hours, I would hate it, but it would be better than hell....

I've never found that in the Bible anywhere... So, as far as I know there is no reason to believe that. If it was so, remember in heaven we will be totally changed. We'll have a new glorified body and our desires are totally different. Just like when as a four year old, I would listen to the discussions my parents had about all kinds of stuff and I would find it very boring, like for instance today the elections. But I would find programs for 4 year olds right now very boring. (Trust me, I used to be an entertainment journalist and had to review DVD for 3 year olds as part of that). So, we will change too.... I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Kees Boer]

Oh I wasn't arguing that, I absolutely agree, I was just saying that the particular "wedding supper of the lamb" seems to be an almost cheeky reference to Jesus' final victory over the Antichrist and False prophet and the carrion feeding birds. Just the context of the passage.

Jesus often used descriptions of banquets and feasts to describe heaven, and one of the first things He did when resurrected is eat with His disciples.

So yes 100% there will be eating and drinking on the New Earth.

In fact I'd say Jesus wouldn't have it any other way than to have eating and drinking, almost everything that existed pre-fall is definitely being restored. The couple things I'm not entirely sure about are childbearing (Matthew 22:30 says no, Isaiah 65:23 maybe says yes), or oceans and ocean life (Revelation 21:1 would suggest no, but other passages talk about bodies of water and fish on the new Earth, I can't think of where they are off the top of my head, I think the later parts of Ezekiel), though that one at least could be symbolic.

But Eating and Drinking is one of the things God gave as a gift to things on the Earth in Genesis 1. The only question is whether people will be able to eat meat or if we're all going vegan.

So OP should actually feel a bit better just regarding that, if there's eating and drinking that means singing is absolutely not the only activity.

That's funny. I never thought about that. We will be "vegan." Maybe, there won't be death in heaven. But God can make other types of food... Maybe we'll be eating chocolate without a rise in bloodsugar and insulin!!! You're getting me hungry for that!

 

[Jamdoc]

That's funny. I never thought about that. We will be "vegan." Maybe, there won't be death in heaven. But God can make other types of food... Maybe we'll be eating chocolate without a rise in bloodsugar and insulin!!! You're getting me hungry for that!

a pastor I listen to sometimes dreams of "ribeye trees"

I mean I hope so, I've never been one that was very big into fruits, but I do like meat and because of gout I don't get to eat much of it.

It'd be kind of a bummer to go through life on Earth unable to eat foods I enjoy and then for the rest of eternity I eat foods I don't really enjoy too.

 

[Kees Boer]

a pastor I listen to sometimes dreams of "ribeye trees"

I mean I hope so, I've never been one that was very big into fruits, but I do like meat and because of gout I don't get to eat much of it.

It'd be kind of a bummer to go through life on Earth unable to eat foods I enjoy and then for the rest of eternity I eat foods I don't really enjoy too.

Your joy will be full in heaven.

 

[Jamdoc]

Your joy will be full in heaven.

So they say, but outside of "Joy" being more like a drug high, where how you feel is independent of your circumstances, which is what people say, that you'll have joy even if your circumstances are unpleasant, I mean, that is why people use drugs, to feel euphoria despite bad circumstances..
the circumstances there don't appear to really be things I'm really excited about, veganism is one of those things. No oceans, no night, everyone single and celibate, yeah I can't say the circumstances seem that great by themselves, at least not for me.

I've often thought of John 14, where Jesus said He'll prepare a place for us, but then, the description is like, all contrary to things that I like.
So it's akin to going to your grandparent's house as a kid, you love them, and want to see them, but there's not a lot to do where they live so you kind of suffer through everything else to spend time visiting them.
So it's like you suffer through a place that you don't really feel fits you, to see Jesus.

I know, it sounds bizarre, to think of heaven as something I stoically have to endure just to see Christ, but that's how it feels coming from a nightowl who likes oceans and prefers steaks to fruits, and in life, well, I don't get to live anywhere near an ocean, have tried but it has always washed out eventually, don't get to eat much meat (I can have chicken that's about it), cause of medical concerns, and every time I've prayed when there's been a chance to see Aurora Borealis.. well
ask for bread, get a stone, it got really cloudy those nights instead.
So I stopped asking.

So .. not really a place for me, a place for Him that I just have to weather, not like there's a better alternative.
My enjoyment of things seems to be irrelevant I guess.

 

[RevealedTruths]

Jamdoc, you really need to stop listening to prudish church pastors so much. Modern-day pastors and church leaders know literally nothing about the word of God, they just repeat the age-old clichés and heresies. Nobody goes to heaven, because it is written, the meek will inherit the Earth.

 

[Mark Quayle]

the circumstances there don't appear to really be things I'm really excited about, veganism is one of those things. No oceans, no night, everyone single and celibate, yeah I can't say the circumstances seem that great by themselves, at least not for me.

Then give up those human notions of heaven. There is nothing in Scripture that says there will be veganism, no oceans, (and in fact, the no night, and single and celibate are not what we think now as that). WE will be changed; we will still be us, but the creatures that he created us to be in the end. We will be completed. Not these half-formed monsters we are now.

The things we enjoy now are small pictures of the real thing there.

 

[Jamdoc]

Then give up those human notions of heaven. There is nothing in Scripture that says there will be veganism, no oceans, (and in fact, the no night, and single and celibate are not what we think now as that). WE will be changed; we will still be us, but the creatures that he created us to be in the end. We will be completed. Not these half-formed monsters we are now.

The things we enjoy now are small pictures of the real thing there.

well there won't be death, and the lion eats straw like the ox.. so.. it's not a huge stretch to believe we're all vegans.
there's no sea, and God had killed all the ocean life in the 2nd vial judgement
and no night and no sun and moon and stars because God lights everything. so permanent light beyond daylight.
and they will neither marry nor be given in marriage.

 

[Mark Quayle]

well there won't be death, and the lion eats straw like the ox.. so.. it's not a huge stretch to believe we're all vegans.
there's no sea, and God had killed all the ocean life in the 2nd vial judgement
and no night and no sun and moon and stars because God lights everything. so permanent light beyond daylight.
and they will neither marry nor be given in marriage.

The temporal concepts —lion, straw, ox, sea, night, sun, moon, stars, marriage— are, in my words, poor copies of the real thing. I'm not saying we will eat meat like we do now, but that this we think of as real, is a passing vapor compared to the reality of what we will have there.

 

[*LILAC]

Except that nobody goes to "heaven", for it is written, blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

You're joking, right?

 

[RevealedTruths]

You're joking, right?

Why would I be joking, if that is literally what the Bible says? Has Christendom really strayed that far away from Scripture towards the traditions of men?

Check Matthew 5:5 and Psalms 37:11, among others.

 

[RevealedTruths]

It's really interesting that the concept of "heaven" / new Earth as described by most pastors actually sounds more like a downgrade than "all things new". No marriage or sexuality, no intimate relationships, no Sun or Moon, no stars or outer space, no sea, just singing and worshipping for eternity... Sounds much more like a PUNISHMENT. For instance, the popular conception that there will be no Sun and Moon. The Bible never saysthis; it says that the city does not need the Sun or Moon to shine upon it, because it will be illuminated by the glory of God. But that's speaking about the new Jerusalem, not the new Earth. If we understand the new Earth to be a planet, then it's obvious that a planet needs a star to revolve around, otherwise it's going to float off somewhere to outer space and end up eaten by a black hole. A habitable planet also needs a large moon to keep its axial tilt in check. The Book of Revelation also says that the Tree of Life will bear fruit every month, and how will you determine if a month has passed, if Luna / Earth's Moon is no longer around? No, both the Sun and Moon are staying, they were a part of the original very good creation and there is no biblical reason to get rid of them...

 

[Jamdoc]

It's really interesting that the concept of "heaven" / new Earth as described by most pastors actually sounds more like a downgrade than "all things new". No marriage or sexuality, no intimate relationships, no Sun or Moon, no stars or outer space, no sea, just singing and worshipping for eternity... Sounds much more like a PUNISHMENT. For instance, the popular conception that there will be no Sun and Moon. The Bible never saysthis; it says that the city does not need the Sun or Moon to shine upon it, because it will be illuminated by the glory of God. But that's speaking about the new Jerusalem, not the new Earth. If we understand the new Earth to be a planet, then it's obvious that a planet needs a star to revolve around, otherwise it's going to float off somewhere to outer space and end up eaten by a black hole. A habitable planet also needs a large moon to keep its axial tilt in check. The Book of Revelation also says that the Tree of Life will bear fruit every month, and how will you determine if a month has passed, if Luna / Earth's Moon is no longer around? No, both the Sun and Moon are staying, they were a part of the original very good creation and there is no biblical reason to get rid of them...

Well they usually pair it with a divine brainwash or make it sound like staring at Jesus is almost a psychedelic drug like high that overpowers everything else so you don't care about anything else.

 

[Jamdoc]

The temporal concepts —lion, straw, ox, sea, night, sun, moon, stars, marriage— are, in my words, poor copies of the real thing. I'm not saying we will eat meat like we do now, but that this we think of as real, is a passing vapor compared to the reality of what we will have there.

Thing is you have a very ethereal view, but Jesus resurrected in a physical body.
So when Jesus resurrected, and they thought they saw a spirit, He proved He was Himself, and had flesh, and ate food with them, meat, as we do now.

What is promised is a physical, real, tangible resurrection and a real, tangible, physical renewed creation.

Not a floaty mystical spirity place.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thing is you have a very ethereal view, but Jesus resurrected in a physical body.
So when Jesus resurrected, and they thought they saw a spirit, He proved He was Himself, and had flesh, and ate food with them, meat, as we do now.

What is promised is a physical, real, tangible resurrection and a real, tangible, physical renewed creation.

Not a floaty mystical spirity place.

Where do you get "floaty mystical spirity" from what I said? (Or maybe I should say, WHY do you get that from what I said?!) I agree it's physical. In fact, much more solidly physical than this vapor of an existence we occupy at present.