A great quote

[mhess13]

can I get one of them there irony meters? I think mine is broken or something. Here is a guy whose claim to fame is Gap Theory, which you disagree with, and you are quoting him. and once again you figure out a way to call me a satan worshipper.

go figure.

Ron

I disagree with the gap theory, but it is the best of the compromise positions. Yes I quote Dake on ocsassion, especially when he takes such a clear stand against trying to mix christianity w/ evolution.
I don't recall labeling anyone as a Satan worshiper, I do believe anyone who believes in evolution is deceived by Satan (or just willfully reject scripture to hang onto a pet theory)

 

[mhess13]

Are you surprised, Ron?

The majority of Christians in the world know that Dake's quote is a bunch of malarkey anyways... these stupid appeals to authority are making me feel woozy.

Actually the majority of Bible-believing Christians agree with that quote. It isn't an appeal to authority, the Bible is the authority. It is just a great quote! I wish I had of thought of it first!

 

[herev]

More Dake:
"He (God) has a personal spirit body, shape, form, image and likeness of a man, bodily parts such as, back parts, heart, hands and fingers, mouth, lips and tongue, feet, eyes, hair, head, face, arms, loins, and other bodily parts. He has bodily presence and goes place to place in a body like all other persons. He has a voice and countenance. He wears clothes, eats, dwells in a mansion and in a city located on a material planet called heaven."

Obviously, Dake is the man with the right interpretation of the bible. All that doubt his interpretation are wrong.

(or maybe not?)

:o so tell me, where did I miss out on the planet called heaven idea. Can someone give me a hint as to which constellation that might be in? With the Hubble, maybe we can get a picture of God?
the simplist and easiest way to debunk his quote as having any rational basis is this
Dake says:
One cannot know the statements of both the Bible and evolutionists and believe both, nor can he be neutral.
I say:
Hi, my name is Tommy --I am a Christian, I believe in the statements of both the Bible and evolutionists. I am that "one" who disproves his reasoning.

 

[HeatherJay]

I disagree with the gap theory, but it is the best of the compromise positions. Yes I quote Dake on ocsassion, especially when he takes such a clear stand against trying to mix christianity w/ evolution.
I don't recall labeling anyone as a Satan worshiper, I do believe anyone who believes in evolution is deceived by Satan (or just willfully reject scripture to hang onto a pet theory)

"For the greater a man's works for the future, the less the present can comprehend them; the harder his fight, and the rarer success. If, however, once in centuries success does come to a man, perhaps in his latter days a faint beam of his coming glory may shine upon him. To be sure, these great men are only the Marathon runners of history; the laurel wreath of the present touches only the brow of the dying hero.

Or this one..."A man does not die for something which he himself does not believe in." Great quotes, right??

They're from Adolf Hitler who also said, "Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized." Or, "The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."

Personally, I couldn't go around quoting the first two, knowing that he had also spoken the last two. It's necessary, I think, to look at the integrity of the speaker before going on about how great a single quote is. JMO.

 

[GodSaves]

Evolution evolved from people who declared God did not exist. God gave man over to foolishness even though they think they are wise.(Romans 1:18-32) The so called wise, being in part scientists delcare God is not, and evolution is the reason for what we see. The Jews, who with their earthly teachings, told the Gentiles they must be circumsized to be saved.

Man in turn doesn't give the glory to God by saying evolution happened not God creating. Many people take their limited understanding, for we all are limited, and try to use it to understand a limitless God. For when those who read about creation(in Genesis) they say I cannot see how this could have happened this way, for those who are wise, and don't know God, say it didn't. So they change the interpretation, when there is no interpretation needed. They take mans teachings and mix them with God's. And remember what God said, He gave man over to foolishness even though they think they are wise. And these so called wise men, who are foolish, are believed in by none other then Christians. Oh, man and God can both be right, we can make a comprimise.

Are you so wrapped up in your pride that you cannot see? Can you not give the Glory to God rather then man? God created as He said He did in Genesis, and if one comes and disputes this or changes it around to suit their needs or other mens needs then they are creating a grave mistake. Have you not understood from the Bible and Paul's teachings that that because we as humans are limited and cannot fathom a limitless God, but yet we do so anyways? This is the nature of science and TE's thinking. You cannot fathom that things happened they way it is said in the Bible so you reduce God's Creation, God's Glory, into mans thinking. You deduce that man must be right and Genesis as it literally teaches, without any symbolism, must be wrong. You cannot fathom in your own mind that it can be right. What have you done, you have put God into your own logic and reasoning saying He cannot be above your own logic and reasoning. I don't care about man's so called logical explanations, because the Bible says that God gave man over to foolishness even though they think they are wise.

For your works are not producing fruit when you talk with others refuting Biblical teaching. You should not look to man or science for you explanations but to God and His Word. You listen to man and believe man and then go to the Bible and say, well 'the' must not mean 'the' it must mean evolution. And what did God say about man and the wise? He gave them over to foolishness and they still think they are wise. And these are the ones you believe over the Word of God. I truly believe this has an impact on one's faith, for if you are refuting Biblical teachings then you are not producing good works that show you have faith. I plee with you, trust God and what He says, do not take man's word over God's. If God said He did, then He did, even if you cannot understand. You don't need to understand at this moment, only believe.

Read Job, he is much like many of those who question God, and see what God has to say to Him in Chapter 38. Here is a preview:

"Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone ... Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him?...Would you condemn me to justify yourself? ... What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!"

God Bless

 

[PaladinValer]

Darwin was an Anglican. There goes that urben legend of "evolution coming from Atheists"...

 

[herev]

Are you so wrapped up in your pride that you cannot see? Can you not give the Glory to God rather then man? God created as He said He did in Genesis, and if one comes and disputes this or changes it around to suit their needs or other mens needs then they are creating a grave mistake. Have you not understood from the Bible and Paul's teachings that that because we as humans are limited and cannot fathom a limitless God, but yet we do so anyways? This is the nature of science and TE's thinking. You cannot fathom that things happened they way it is said in the Bible so you reduce God's Creation, God's Glory, into mans thinking. You deduce that man must be right and Genesis as it literally teaches, without any symbolism, must be wrong. You cannot fathom in your own mind that it can be right. What have you done, you have put God into your own logic and reasoning saying He cannot be above your own logic and reasoning. I don't care about man's so called logical explanations, because the Bible says that God gave man over to foolishness even though they think they are wise.

Puuulease, don't put words into the mouths of TE's. I never deny that we should give God glory for his creation--never. I do not give any glory to man for God's creation--what foolishness. To understand Genesis 1,2,3 as non-literal doesn't suit my needs at all. It has nothing to do with being able to "fathom" that God could do it exactly as it is said in either Gen 1 or Gen 2 (whichever creation story you believe to be literal), it has to do with understanding that the two creation stories are in conflict with each other and they do not match what is plainly evident within God's creation itself. God can do anything he darn well chooses--I will neve deny the omnipotence of God.

For your works are not producing fruit when you talk with others refuting Biblical teaching. You should not look to man or science for you explanations but to God and His Word. You listen to man and believe man and then go to the Bible and say, well 'the' must not mean 'the' it must mean evolution. And what did God say about man and the wise? He gave them over to foolishness and they still think they are wise. And these are the ones you believe over the Word of God. I truly believe this has an impact on one's faith, for if you are refuting Biblical teachings then you are not producing good works that show you have faith. I plee with you, trust God and what He says, do not take man's word over God's. If God said He did, then He did, even if you cannot understand. You don't need to understand at this moment, only believe.

I am not--understand clearly now--I am not refuting Biblical teaching--never have--I do teach against YOUR interpetation of biblical teaching. believing in evolution has not affected my faith in any way except to confirm it--I believe in Jesus as my Lord and Savior, who died and resurrected that I might live--I do trust God, I believe everything in the Bible contains the truth about God, but everything is not factual. God does not have wings (if we are in fact made in his image, that is), despite the fact that the Bible says so. It is not literal, but it is true that he comforts us under his metaphorical wings by drawing us close. To believe that parts of the Bible are imagry in nature is not to deny God's truth. To continue to suggest otherwise is insulting to me and other TE's. We have just as much faith as you do.

Read Job, he is much like many of those who question God, and see what God has to say to Him in Chapter 38. Here is a preview:

I believe God asked Job--where you there? Do you know How I created?

 

[GodSaves]

And God gave Genesis as the account of His creation, without symbolism. Here is the realistic point that so many don't see. People have changed Genesis' meaning because of men, men who don't believe in God, men who needed a new explanation of our universes creation because they decided God did not exist. TE's have changed their way of reading Genesis because of men who do not believe in God.

Darwin was in seminary school and quit because he choose not to believe in God. His theories were made under the assumption that God does not exist.

And I ask you where you there at creation that you need to change the meaning of Genesis to suit men's theories who do not believe in God? By taking men's version over God's you are refuting Biblical teaching.

What I have a hard time understanding is that TE's claim to know God but yet still don't believe one of the most important revelations given to us by God, creation. God gave men over to foolishness even though they thought they were wise.

God Bless

 

[PaladinValer]

GodSaves, your "history" of Darwin's basis of his theories is false. Please do some real research from actual primary sources please.

 

[GodSaves]

Ops my apologies. He graduated with a theology degree and then he rejects God around 1837-1840.

 

[HeatherJay]

And God gave Genesis as the account of His creation, without symbolism. Here is the realistic point that so many don't see. People have changed Genesis' meaning because of men, men who don't believe in God, men who needed a new explanation of our universes creation because they decided God did not exist. TE's have changed their way of reading Genesis because of men who do not believe in God.

Darwin was in seminary school and quit because he choose not to believe in God. His theories were made under the assumption that God does not exist.

And I ask you where you there at creation that you need to change the meaning of Genesis to suit men's theories who do not believe in God? By taking men's version over God's you are refuting Biblical teaching.

What I have a hard time understanding is that TE's claim to know God but yet still don't believe one of the most important revelations given to us by God, creation. God gave men over to foolishness even though they thought they were wise.

God Bless

Darwin was never in seminary school...he did take a theology class in college, maybe that's what you're referring to? He was a graduate of Christ's College...is this where the confusion comes in...the name? If you have an accurate reference to the contrary, though, I'd love to check it out.

Darwin began his journey upon the Beagle with his faith in God intact. He did gradually become somewhat disenchanted while on his quest and later became a self proclaimed agnostic.

He was noted as saying, "The whole subject [of God] is beyond the scope of man's intellect."

If you want a more personal account of his beliefs, check out his autobiography...here's an excerpt that addresses his faith and eventual lack thereof.
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/library/cd_relig.htm


Edited to add that I did find a reference to a degree in theology...my mistake.

 

[HeatherJay]

His theories were made under the assumption that God does not exist.

This is where I disagree. His research and dicoveries led him towards his loss of faith, not the other way 'round.

 

[GodSaves]

Yes, I was wrong about that statement, his findings made him not believe in God. TE's still changed the clear teachings of Genesis to suit mans teachings of how the universe began. This alone shows that there is trouble in this thinking. And with Darwin changing his thinking because of evolution should be a big red stop sign to TE's. But rather they follow man's teachings of evolution rather then God's teaching of creation. This alone is a lack of faith in God and His Word, and putting that faith in man.

God Bless

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Yes, I was wrong about that statement, his findings made him not believe in God. TE's still changed the clear teachings of Genesis to suit mans teachings of how the universe began. This alone shows that there is trouble in this thinking. And with Darwin changing his thinking because of evolution should be a big red stop sign to TE's. But rather they follow man's teachings of evolution rather then God's teaching of creation. This alone is a lack of faith in God and His Word, and putting that faith in man.

God Bless

I have full faith in God. I just lack faith in your interpretation of him.

 

[GodSaves]

It is not my interpretation, it is reading Genesis how it was written. TE's choose to listen to men who don't believe in God to understand how the universe was created rather then the clearly written Genesis. If you have full faith in God why do you look to men who don't believe for your answers to the creation of the universe rather then God?

God Bless

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

It is not my interpretation, it is reading Genesis how it was written. TE's choose to listen to men who don't believe in God to understand how the universe was created rather then the clearly written Genesis. If you have full faith in God why do you look to men who don't believe for your answers to the creation of the universe rather then God?

God Bless

How do you read something without interpreting it? What do you mean that you're reading it how it was written? You are doing nothing more than interpreting it your own way.

God answers to how he created are all around us. However, we do not find them in a spirtual book.

 

[HeatherJay]

I believe absolutely that God is the Creator. Beyond that, I can accept that creation is something that we'll never have a concrete answer to. I don't believe that the Bible's purpose is to necessarily be scientifically/historically accurate...unless you feel that you need some 'proof' of it's legitimacy. I find that I don't.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord...

I don't need proof that Bible is most definitely the word of God. And, I've found that those who concentrate too much on the beginning and the end of the Good Book sometimes miss the message in between.

I don't mean this as a judgement on you, GodSaves, and I have read nothing in your posts that would cause me to assume that this is the case with you...but, in the past with my personal experiences, this has been my observation.

 

[L'Anatra]

It is not my interpretation, it is reading Genesis how it was written. TE's choose to listen to men who don't believe in God to understand how the universe was created rather then the clearly written Genesis. If you have full faith in God why do you look to men who don't believe for your answers to the creation of the universe rather then God?

God Bless

Not your interpretation? Then whose is it?

I look to the Creation of God, the universe itself that exists in the present time, to give me the answers. I do not look to a potentially false interpretation of a book that was written by men who lived thousands of years ago, regardless of who inspired it.

My faith is not based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. It is based on the living Word: Jesus Christ. That is all that matters, in my opinion. I think you would agree.

 

[GodSaves]

Greetings L'Anatra.

I have not seen you around in a bit, it is nice to hear from you. Interpreting is the act of explaining something. I do not need to explain Genesis for it explains itself. I do not need to look to men who do not believe in God to tell me how the world came to be, but I rather look to what God gave us to tell us how the world came to be.

My faith is based on God and the Son Jesus Christ. It is based on them and believing in them that what they say is true. I do not believe God inspired Moses to write things in code, but rather so all people could understand. There are figures of speech in the Bible but they are written as so with explainations found within the Bible itself without having to go outside it. Let alone to men who say God does not exist. TE's faith seems to be that God will hide things from men and leave them to figure it out. That God would mean for Christians to go to men who do not believe in God for the answers. This is what I mean by hurting your faith, you lack faith that God made it plain. (Romans 1:18-22) He made it plain so that we all would be without excuse. And still TE's refute this saying that Genesis needs science for the correct interpretation, thus making the statement in the Bible (God made it clear so all men would be without excuse) to be wrong.

Wrong interpretation is one thing, but looking to science and men who don't believe in God for understanding of the Bible doesn't make sense. I guess one could say, let science be your guide to understanding God, instead of letting the Bible, which is God's Word, be your understanding of God. I hear the phrase I look around the world and it tells me, but this is not all correct because one looks around the world with what science has told them, not what God has told them. God didn't tell them that man evolved over billions of years, God said I created man and He was so. Genesis goes into great detail of how God created the heavens and the earth, why would He give this account to men if He didn't do this? Why would it be so specific in what He did, if it wasn't?

I will be naive and believe what God tells me, and others can choose to be wise and believe what science and God hating men tell them.

God Belss

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I do not need to explain Genesis for it explains itself. I do not need to look to men who do not believe in God to tell me how the world came to be, but I rather look to what God gave us to tell us how the world came to be.

You are interpreting it as literal. I mean you would not say that everything in the Bible is literal, yet you would say that story is. Why? The answer is because that is your interpretation.