A Controversial Review of the Immaculate

[Albion]

Well, this started because i was talking about the different denominations and doctrines with in the 5,000 protestant sects... and your response was the Catholic church has this problem and you explained that through talking about the disagreements between the RCC and EO. Why would you use the EO in your argument about "different denominations in the RC"?

I did not say that. I recommend that you take another look at the post in question.

 

[Cis.jd]

I did not say that. I recommend that you take another look at the post in question.

Ok

here is your post

As I said, the Catholic churches are in disagreement with each other just as much or moreso than the Protestant churches are with each other. This seems to come as "news" to you, but there are no two Catholic churches that are in NOT in disagreement--and substantial disagreement--with the others, yet the differences between Protestant bodies is often something much less significant. The Roman and the Eastern Orthodox churches don't agree on the procession of the Holy Spirit and it caused the biggest schism in Christian history, one that is still ongoing a thousand years later. And the Roman and Eastern churches disagree on Papal Supremacy and have done so since the start of the RCC. The Oriental Orthodox disagree with the Eastern Orthodox on the nature of God, and the Old Catholic Union of Utrecht disagrees with the Papal Church on the priesthood and Papal Infallibility to name just a couple of areas of dispute. Nevertheless, each of them likes to talk as though it is the only true church and has never changed any of its doctrines. LOL

You here are talking abut the disagreements between the RCC and EO. Why are you bringing this up as support to your "different denominations in RCC" claim?

 

[Albion]

Ok

here is your post


You here are talking abut the disagreements between the RCC and EO. Why are you bringing this up as support to your "different denominations in RCC" claim?

I offered one example of the differences between the RCC and EO. Then I gave an example or two showing the differences between a number of other Catholic churches.

And I never said "different denominations in RCC." That is what YOU wrote (and apparently imagined that my post was speaking of).

 

[Magnus Maximus]

The RCC sees the EO rites and sacraments as completely valid and recognizes they have apostolic succession; further any EO or OO adherent can receive communion at an RCC church. Further or divisions are more cultural and political than religious I.e. Greco vs Latin world, Germanic vs eastern Slavic world etc.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

The catholic world does not have denominations we have different rites -- still on holy Catholic and apostolic church

 

[Albion]

The RCC sees the EO rites and sacraments as completely valid and recognizes they have apostolic succession

Whoopy. I can top that and name a dozen areas of agreement between even such widely different denominations as the Baptists and Lutherans.

The fact that any of these groupings, whether Catholic or Protestant, have areas of agreement doesn't do a thing to alter the fact of the churches being divided and in doctrinal disagreement. The point remains that the Catholic churches are at least as divided as are the Protestant churches...and the significance of that fact is that the tired old claim about Protestants taken as a whole being divided while the speaker's church supposedly stands alone is complete bunk.

 

[Geralt]

She was only sinless because she was full of grace. God protected her in order to create the New Ark of the Covenant.

She held the eternal word within her.

She is the daughter of God the Father, the Mother of God the Son, and the spouse of God the Holy Spirit.

mysticism at its best in imagination, zero in truth.

 

[Geralt]

Of course, you are a Sola Scriptura person so enough said!

I prefer and believe in Holy Catholic Tradition.

God bless you

you're not alone, the pharisees believed in their tradition too.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Once again our split was political not doctrinal -- doctrine was an excuse

We don't allow Protestants to recieve communion we do allow orthodox. They have valid apostolic succesion as does the OO and some Anglican communions as well as the old Catholics (see of Utrecht only)

 

[Albion]

The catholic world does not have denominations we have different rites -- still on holy Catholic and apostolic church

No, the RC, EO, OC, OO, etc. are considered denominations by everyone except the devotees of each of those churches. They like to say that their denominations are not denominations...only the other fellow's denomination is a "denomination!" It's just the same old wordmongering that annoys Catholics when Baptists talk about being "born again" and imply that you're not.

 

[Albion]

Once again our split was political not doctrinal -- doctrine was an excuse

Do you REALLY think that the nature of God, Papal Supremacy, Icons, and all the other doctrinal issues that have raged for over a millennium and kept these churches divided from each other...are purely political and not doctrinal? Or is that just something said to try to win a debate?

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Do you REALLY think that the nature of God, Papal Supremacy, Icons, and all the other doctrinal issues that have raged for over a millennium and kept these churches divided from each other...are purely political and not doctrinal? Or is that just something said to try to win a debate?

No we have several eastern rite churches who retain their full eastern id and rites but are part of the RCC; we fully acknowledge the Eastern Church, Icons, creed sans fillique, married priests et all. The sad truth it was man who split the church and man who kept it divided; it was all over the hatred of the greek vs the Latin world and how they looked at each other sad very sad

a lot of the EO churches are national churches and because of that their nation wants to retain control of them and they keep them from reunion with us, the is esp the case in Russia--but I think in our lifetime the OO will reunite with the RCC and most of the EO sans the RODC. Right now we are on the verge of the Armenian apostolic church of the OO and the RCC returning to full communion exciting times. We are finally seeing a return to Christ's wish that we may all be one

 

[Cis.jd]

I offered one example of the differences between the RCC and EO. Then I gave an example or two showing the differences between a number of other Catholic churches.

And I never said "different denominations in RCC." That is what YOU wrote (and apparently imagined that my post was speaking of).

Where are the catholic churches, i see EO, OO and Old Catholic Union of Utrecht.. none of these are Catholic.
Old Catholic Union bares the name "Catholic" but they do not have any form of communion with the RCC.

You can even do a basic search of them and you will see they separated from the Catholic church just like the Protestants did. Come on Albion, you are giving poor examples of your argument.
You just referenced other differences and denominational views in Christianity in general, not exclusive to only Roman Catholicism.

 

[Albion]

No we have several eastern rite churches who retain their full eastern id and rites but are part of the RCC

That has nothing to do with my earlier posts in which I was referring to what most of us would call denominations. Separate church bodies. Yes, there are different rites in the Church of Rome, but that never was part of the issue.

 

[Magnus Maximus]

Bottom line we need to stand together--all of us even the Prots--because if we don't we will all be defeated by radical Islam. I am convinced that if the great schism never happened the Eastern Empire never would have fallen to Turkey and we would have a Christian middle east and possibly North Africa --but we divided the east fell and the west came close to falling--it was God's grace that preserved the west (BTW it was the RCC church that often fought alone vs the Turks with little help from protestants) Had the RCC fallen the prot nations would have been quickly subjugated.

 

[Albion]

Where are the catholic churches, i see EO, OO and Old Catholic Union of Utrecht.. none of these are Catholic.

In fact, they're ALL Catholic, in just the same way as Methodists and Pentecostals are considered to be Protestants even though they are separate denominations.

 

[Albion]

Bottom line we need to stand together--all of us even the Prots--because if we don't we will all be defeated by radical Islam.

If that's your view and your hope, I'd recommend you not start off your appeal by calling us "Prots."

(Consider that as friendly ribbing, and have yourself a good night's rest, MM. I'm heading to bed now myself).

 

[Magnus Maximus]

God Bless you and I consider all Christians brothers and sisters in Christ, I would rather have a friendly argument with an Anglican then be in a fight with a jihadist

 

[Cis.jd]

In fact, they're ALL Catholic, in just the same way as Methodists and Pentecostals are considered to be Protestants even though they are separate denominations.

Actually they are not. Even they claim to be separated from the RCC.
The dividing line is who these "sects" consider to be the pope. If its B16, and he recognizes that they are in communion with him, then they are part of THE Catholic Church. Just because a church has "catholic" in their name doesn't mean they are Catholic. Your line of reasoning is like validating a Mormon of Jehovah's Witness in being considered a Protestant denomination or different Christian sect.

Do your research before making such claims.

https://www.oikoumene.org/en/church-families/old-catholic-churches
http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID=96&pagetypeID=9&sitecode=hq&pageno=1

 

[Linet Kihonge]

By all means, obey the Bible:

Luke 1:48 "Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

Let us call Mary blessed out of obedience to the first chapter of Luke!

Is English difficult or what?

Saying she's blessed doesn't mean we bless her!!! I think she was blessed and that's ALL!!!

That woman was honoring her and GOD didn't entertain nada!!!