A Controversial Review of the Immaculate

[Linet Kihonge]

This post will hurt but truth be told, some prayers are just too much!!!

"O Immaculate Heart of Mary, Heavenly beauty and splendor of the Father, You are the most valued Heavenly treasure.
New Eve, immaculate in soul, spirit and body, Created of the godly seed by the Spirit of God, You are the spiritual Mother of mankind.
Pure Virgin, full of grace then and now, Your whole being was raised Heavenly in full glory, To be elevated above all the hosts within the Kingdom of God.
O Heavenly Mother, Queen of Heaven and earth, I recognize the glory of your highest title, The Immaculate Heart of Mary!

Ephesians 3:14-16, "For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being," (Prayer for the Ephesians from Paul).

Matthew 11 (24,25), "But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”25 At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth,"

Matthew 6:14, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.


I just need to get something cleared up. I feel someone needs to explain where all the exaltation and use of praises commonly offered to God being offered to someone that no one in the bible ever used on a departed saint... What chapters did we look over, what sins have been made for not recognizing "Virgin", are we going to hell because she's a lot more than we think she is, are we worshiping the doctrinal correct way, biblical correct way or the traditional correct way, is the bible authoritative or not in deciding this "theotokos" issue, who's is the Mary mother of Christ? seriously.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

"O Immaculate Heart of Mary, Heavenly beauty and splendor of the Father, You are the most valued Heavenly treasure.
New Eve, immaculate in soul, spirit and body, Created of the godly seed by the Spirit of God, You are the spiritual Mother of mankind.
Pure Virgin, full of grace then and now, Your whole being was raised Heavenly in full glory, To be elevated above all the hosts within the Kingdom of God.
O Heavenly Mother, Queen of Heaven and earth, I recognize the glory of your highest title, The Immaculate Heart of Mary!

That is so Sweet.

Have a read of this and decide for yourself whether the Blessed Virgin is just for show or is the Mother of God:

http://www.oocities.org/ritapaz/firstmessages.html

The same Messages including the Bible verses:
https://www.scribd.com/Gabriel388

God bless you.

 

[Albion]

To be clear, none of this is specifically about the Theotokos idea. That merely stipulates that she is to be honored as the one who gave birth to the man who was God incarnate--a very Biblical concept.

BUT when you turn to all the other claims about Mary that successive generations heaped upon her...THEN you're talkin'

 

[SkyWriting]

. What chapters did we look over, what sins have been made for not recognizing "Virgin", are we going to hell because she's a lot more than we think she is, are we worshiping the doctrinal correct way, biblical correct way or the traditional correct way, is the bible authoritative or not in deciding this "theotokos" issue, who's is the Mary mother of Christ? seriously.

God is quite forgiving if you meant no harm.
Rejecting the Holy Spirit is the only sin God cannot forgive.
All the rest are covered.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

To be clear, none of this is specifically about the Theotokos idea. That merely stipulates that she is to be honored as the one who gave birth to the man who was God incarnate--a very Biblical concept.

BUT when you turn to all the other claims about Mary that successive generations heaped upon her...THEN you're talkin'

I wish it ended on Theotokos

That is so Sweet.

Have a read of this and decide for yourself whether the Blessed Virgin is just for show or is the Mother of God:

http://www.oocities.org/ritapaz/firstmessages.html

The same Messages including the Bible verses:
https://www.scribd.com/Gabriel388

God bless you.

I see!

I believe in God the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit
I believe that Jesus Christ is his only Begotten Son and he suffered under the Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, resurrected on the 3rd day and is now seated on the right hand of God.

I respect the Creed!

My beloved brother, there are two ways of looking at this. Mary is the Mother of God in the sense that Jesus is God and in her nature, she was never a "man" but of a "God" nature making her "divine" in every angle of it. Mary was just the Mother of God in the sense Jesus is God but her role as the "ideal" vessel to bear Christ in itself made her divine meaning she was "man" all the time but after the conception she became a lot MORE. So is it the immaculate conception that rules Catholicism devotion to the "Immaculate" or is it the selflessness of Mary's nature and her recognition by Angel Gabriel.

The whole Bible is filled with places dedicated as the Lord's "dwelling" place and in this case, she commanded in the name of the Lord to have a place for her. These places are places where people would find her and her presence would be felt, Right? When Jesus came to die on the cross, he came so that man would be free and free in deed. He came so that whoever believed in him would not perish but have everlasting life. He came so that GOD and MAN would be one in mind, body and soul. He came so that no one would have to go to a certain mountain or Jerusalem but so that everyone who believed in him and worshiped him in truth and in spirit he would be there with him. He came so that you would be free and free indeed.

How does it become important to have a place dedicated to Mary and there she's made manifest?
How does it become important that an immortal being would need a place with water?
How does it become so important to have a building and with an image of an immortal being so that people would remember how he/she looks like?
How comes there's a huge need for such an attention yet God never needed that kind of attention from human beings after he sent his Son?

I'm not even sure if I should be saying this or not but sounds like going back to the Old Testament in every sense of it

 

[Albion]

My beloved brother, there are two ways of looking at this. Mary is the Mother of God in the sense that Jesus is God and in her nature, she was never a "man" but of a "God" nature making her "divine" in every angle of it. Mary was just the Mother of God in the sense Jesus is God but her role as the "ideal" vessel to bear Christ in itself made her divine meaning she was "man" all the time but after the conception she became a lot MORE. So is it the immaculate conception that rules Catholicism devotion to the "Immaculate" or is it the selflessness of Mary's nature and her recognition by Angel Gabriel.

Only the last one would be admitted to; she is not considered divine by the Church. That isn't really the issue, however. Rather, it's the all-too-human tendency (which can turn into a competition) to accord her more and more extraordinary honors and authority short of considering her to be divine. And at times, the line is crossed by some church members with the unofficial approval of the clergy. .

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Have you read the messages attached to the post from Anton?

Only the last one would be admitted to; she is not considered divine by the Church. That isn't really the issue, however. Rather, it's the all-too-human tendency (which can turn into a competition) to accord her more and more extraordinary honors and authority short of considering her to be divine. And at times, the line is crossed by some church members with the unofficial approval of the clergy. .

 

[Albion]

Have you read the messages attached to the post from Anton?

Some of them. If you notice, they're not officially church-approved, and they walk a very fine line between Mary as divine and Mary as way above all the other saints.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

I wish it ended on Theotokos



I see!

I believe in God the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit
I believe that Jesus Christ is his only Begotten Son and he suffered under the Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, resurrected on the 3rd day and is now seated on the right hand of God.

I respect the Creed!

My beloved brother, there are two ways of looking at this. Mary is the Mother of God in the sense that Jesus is God and in her nature, she was never a "man" but of a "God" nature making her "divine" in every angle of it. Mary was just the Mother of God in the sense Jesus is God but her role as the "ideal" vessel to bear Christ in itself made her divine meaning she was "man" all the time but after the conception she became a lot MORE. So is it the immaculate conception that rules Catholicism devotion to the "Immaculate" or is it the selflessness of Mary's nature and her recognition by Angel Gabriel.

The whole Bible is filled with places dedicated as the Lord's "dwelling" place and in this case, she commanded in the name of the Lord to have a place for her. These places are places where people would find her and her presence would be felt, Right? When Jesus came to die on the cross, he came so that man would be free and free in deed. He came so that whoever believed in him would not perish but have everlasting life. He came so that GOD and MAN would be one in mind, body and soul. He came so that no one would have to go to a certain mountain or Jerusalem but so that everyone who believed in him and worshiped him in truth and in spirit he would be there with him. He came so that you would be free and free indeed.

How does it become important to have a place dedicated to Mary and there she's made manifest?
How does it become important that an immortal being would need a place with water?
How does it become so important to have a building and with an image of an immortal being so that people would remember how he/she looks like?
How comes there's a huge need for such an attention yet God never needed that kind of attention from human beings after he sent his Son?

I'm not even sure if I should be saying this or not but sounds like going back to the Old Testament in every sense of it

You do know you are the one who asked about Her? I merely provided a possible solution to your inquiry. I believe in the Holy Trinity, the Triune God too.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is Special and Holy, isn't She? She's all about God in Her Messages. God this, God that, God left, God right, God up, God down, God here, God there, God in, God out, God front, God back. She's all about God. I just find Her Utterly Terrific.

My thinking is this. If this Woman named Mary is not suppose to be important, and God is Almighty and can do anything He wants, why would He even need to be carried by the Woman in Her Womb? That's just ridiculous.

Angel Gabriel could have just come to Mary and given Her a Baby and tell Her, "This is God, the Son, look after Him. God don't need no human vessel to pop Him out. He is Almighty and can pop in and out of worldly existence just through His Word. So here is Baby Jesus Christ, He has just been popped into my Arms by God the Father and I present Him to you to look after Him because that is God's Will. You are just His adoptive mother, understand woman? Don't go assuming you're more important than anybody else. You're just a nobody looking after the Redeemer of the World. You're not special. I have to go back to God now. Can't spend all day talking to a nobody like you. Make sure you don't pass any of your human, crappy, diseased, sinful nature and condition to Baby Jesus Christ. You will contaminate Him with your nothingness. That will be totally gross and you will ruin the Plan of Redemption for the whole human race. Got it, Mary? Bye." This is what a lot of people say about Her which makes no sense at all to me.

Mary is more than just a mortal woman. I would not be surprised if She had a pre-existent life. If you look at God's attitude in regards to marriage and procreation, it is solemn and serious in nature. So for God to have a Son through this Woman named Mary, this Woman just by that Deed and Act of God Almighty is Holy. This Woman named Mary while married to Joseph but before they lived together put God first before Her own husband, Joseph to have God's Son. She's like committing adultery with God to bear His Son. But it's not adultery only if this Woman named Mary was married to God first. Otherwise God would be breaking His Own Law. So Mary is one spirit and then one flesh with God. Even Jesus Christ, Her Son talks about the Sanctity of Marriage. Joseph was the adopted husband of Mary and adopted father of Jesus because God willed it so. So basically Joseph was looking after God's Wife and Son because God Himself was not able to do so at that particular point in time.

This Woman named Mary is the Spouse and Mother of Almighty God and Has a Spiritual Connection with the Holy Trinity that nobody else have. Angel Gabriel Hailed Her. Angel Gabriel doesn't hail nobodies. Angel Gabriel did not hail Zechariah, the priest, who was just a worshipper of God, that's all. Zechariah despite being righteous in the eyes of God and even prayed for a baby was not able to believe Angel Gabriel while Mary, who was married to Joseph despite hearing the most ridiculous announcement from anybody in Her entire life believed Angel Gabriel.

Anyway, you don't have to believe in Her. It's done by faith, by choice. Jesus Christ is more than enough for most. It's just that I came to faith in Jesus Christ through Her so I'm one of Her son. She has power over me and I like it that way because She teaches me about God.

God bless you.

 

[Hieronymus]

God is quite forgiving if you meant no harm.
Rejecting the Holy Spirit is the only sin God cannot forgive.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not rejection.

 

[Hieronymus]

This post will hurt but truth be told, some prayers are just too much!!!

"O Immaculate Heart of Mary, Heavenly beauty and splendor of the Father, You are the most valued Heavenly treasure.
New Eve, immaculate in soul, spirit and body, Created of the godly seed by the Spirit of God, You are the spiritual Mother of mankind.
Pure Virgin, full of grace then and now, Your whole being was raised Heavenly in full glory, To be elevated above all the hosts within the Kingdom of God.
O Heavenly Mother, Queen of Heaven and earth, I recognize the glory of your highest title, The Immaculate Heart of Mary!

Blasphemy.

I just need to get something cleared up. I feel someone needs to explain where all the exaltation and use of praises commonly offered to God being offered to someone that no one in the bible ever used on a departed saint...

Isis, Sophia (gnosticism).
It's "tradition".

 

[Hieronymus]

The Blessed Virgin Mary is Special and Holy, isn't She?

They question is "Who is she?".
Mary the mother of Jesus of Nazareth had more offspring, ergo.. no virgin.
God is Holy and Jesus Christ is Holy.

She's all about God in Her Messages. God this, God that, God left, God right, God up, God down, God here, God there, God in, God out, God front, God back. She's all about God. I just find Her Utterly Terrific.

Fantastic would be the correct term.

My thinking is this. If this Woman named Mary is not suppose to be important, and God is Almighty and can do anything He wants, why would He even need to be carried by the Woman in Her Womb? That's just ridiculous.

Then why do you suppose the genealogies were important enough to be included in the Gospels?
And don't you know He had to be the Man without sin?

 

[SkyWriting]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not rejection.

No matter. It seems that after the resurrection,
no warnings about this are written, so Jesus
covered that one as well in His new life.

 

[SkyWriting]

Mary is more than just a mortal woman. I would not be surprised if She had a pre-existent life.

It was mandatory that she be just a mortal woman
so that God could properly manifest Himself as mortal.
The reason for the genealogies is to cement her as
from the proper line of mortals.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Anton, what if I agreed that God needed a weaker vessel, a vessel that had sins of the man, something filled with "slime" and "crimson clay" so that his Son would carry the weight of the cross as 100% MAN though God in entirety? Doesn't he sound too humble and not pious for chosing Divined Mary, a Mary not of David's geneology, perhaps a betrothed woman to Joseph but all the same someone who was man in every aspect! What's wrong with that? Doesn't that leave her still "honored"? and perhaps,more blessed amongst us? I haven't dragged her name in the mud, or disregarded her being a chosen vessel of the LORD.

I have just said, "What a loving and all embracing LORD of the Heavenly Hosts?" He came so that he could be man like us and walked like us, lived like us, felt everything like us, and saw everything like us. When he was nailed on the cross, he wasn't putting a show of pretending to be Man but he was man who felt everything we felt, weeped when he saw Martha and Mary and other weep for Lazarus because he was Man like you and me! When he said, "Forgive them, for they know not what they were doing" he saw their reasoning, the limitedness of man's logic and perception and when he died he never held anything against them for doing what they did because he saw it from a God's perspective as a Human Being I preach sola scripture so I edify the word before anything else, that's all

So for God to have a Son through this Woman named Mary, this Woman just by that Deed and Act of God Almighty is Holy.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are all talking about.

But I must admit I'm brainwashed by the Mother of God. That's probably why I am not able to understand your writings. It's like a different language to me.

If you love your earthly mother and I were to say something disrespectful about her, I'm sure you would not like it very much.

My Heavenly Mother Mary is Holy, Unblemished and Perfect.

God bless you.

 

[Albion]

I think what he's talking about is this kind of thing:

"My Heavenly Mother Mary is Holy and Unblemished."

Aside from the six capitalizations (!) in that short yet gushy sentence, there is no actual basis for saying that Mary is our mother, the mother or queen of heaven, or, for that matter, unblemished.

All these fanciful accolades make the devotees feel spiritual, but of course they aren't based upon anything other than the desire of humans to ennoble her memory beyond what is Scriptural. We ought not do such a thing, even if it is passed off as being respectful.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

It's a difficult theology right there. All I am saying, for God to have been 100% man and 100% God he needed a 100% mortal man! I don't find anything wrong in it because at the end "He crucified all the desires of the flesh on the cross, had them washed away in his blood and the death signified the death of the mortal man and his resurrection the rising of the immortal, perfect and imperishable man or rather a God-like being in every sense of it!

 

[Gabriel Anton]

I think what he's talking about is this kind of thing:

"My Heavenly Mother Mary is Holy, Unblemished and Perfect."

Aside from the six capitalizations (!) in that short yet gushy sentence, there is no actual basis for saying that Mary is our mother, the mother or queen of heaven, or, for that matter, unblemished.

All these fanciful accolades make the devotees feel spiritual, but of course they aren't based upon anything other than the desire of humans to ennoble her memory beyond what is Scriptural. We ought not do that, even if it is passed off as being respectful.

Mary is not your Mother. She's my Mother. Nobody is forcing Her to be your Mother.

God bless you.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

It's a difficult theology right there. All I am saying, for God to have been 100% man and 100% God he needed a 100% mortal man! I don't find anything wrong in it because at the end "He crucified all the desires of the flesh on the cross, had them washed away in his blood and the death signified the death of the mortal man and his resurrection the rising of the immortal, perfect and imperishable man or rather a God-like being in every sense of it!

That is the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. What are you trying to teach me about the Crucifixion of Jesus?

God bless you.