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Saved to what?
If sin is the transgression of the law, define transgression of the law. Is this the original and only sin?
I just do not believe baptism is for salvation
Sin = transgression of the Law.
Sin = the breaking of God's laws or commandments.
As for Original Sin: The Bible says sin (or transgression of the Law) from Adam passed down upon all men so that all have sinned.
For the record, I said the church, for that is the subject of the scripture quoted. Jesus only established one church.
I did not say all faithful, for the gates of Hades would have then prevailed, and it did not.
Once again, do you not believe that the Bible is a historical document; I believe it is our best, by far.
Do you not believe that Paul was a real man, inspired by the Almighty?
I agree. But I also believe Jesus indwelled the OT saint so as to give them salvation, too. Many of them may not have known Christ's name like NT saints did, but they abided in the Lord as a part of salvation none the less.
"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4).
But being born of the Spirit is nothing new. The words "circumcision of the heart" is just another way of saying "born again" in the Old Testament (or Old Covenant).
I had said...The indwelling spirit promised to come with the New Covenant in Jeramiah 31 and 32 was available before Pentecost as Jesus appeared to the disciples and breathed on them, they received His indwelling presence - John 20:22. The giving of the Spirit at Pentecost was an empowering for ministry the same was as Jesus received as a permanent anointing to empower His ministry. Salvation comes with the indwelling of Jesus in the New Covenant. Empowering for ministry is a different issue.
And you replied as above...
Can I point out that in Jeremiah 31 and 32 we see prophesies of a New Covenant to come in which God's Spirit would indwell the believers sometime in the future.
If this covenant was already in place as you suggest, the prophesy would be false.
Clearly this is not so, the OT believers did not require the indwelling presence to be saved, their salvation came via the cross in response to faith in the Father. The cross is a timeless event which spans all history past and future through which the faithful believers are saved.
Blessings
Carl Emerson.
Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:3 Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus would have known about 'circumcision of the heart' being well versed in the OT.
Jesus was clearly presenting something that Nicodemus knew nothing about and said exactly that.
To suggest that being born again was simply circumcision of the heart makes no sense of this passage.
Again in Jer 31 and 32 we see prophesies regarding a New Covenant unique in the fact that His Spirit would in the future indwell hearts and the fear of Him would seal them against disobedience. This happens when we are born again.
Blessings
Carl Emerson.
In other words, putting the self serving, self justifying will of man before God's will and rather than love neighbour as self, seek gain at the expense of others, redefining good and evil to suit personal wants. Therefore salvation which is the previously unattainable Kingdom of God, is attainable by rejection of and reversal of the original sin.
Flesh rarely condemns flesh on it's own but the spirit has no problem doing so.
Remember the good ol' days when the church followed the will of God and was loyal to the Kingdom of God. Remember the day the music died when a faction of the church broadsided the Kingdom and Jesus and officially rejoined the world of man, aligned with State, whoring itself to Babylon (as Peter called Rome), contrary to the teachings of Jesus and the will of God and ways of the Kingdom? Good thing that didn't last.
You are all over the map here and you are not making any sense.
We are all getting off topic of this thread. This thread is about the Sinner's Prayer.
OK so Jesus expected Nicodemus to be familiar with the term being 'Born Again' not mentioned anywhere in the OT...
Not so...
He was simply getting his attention in a very Jewish way to gain his ear by presenting a concept beyond his comprehension and experience, and He continues to do this speaking of the resurrection in Jn3:13,14
The New Covenant promise of His indwelling presence was never available in the Old Covenant as Jeremiah 31:31f and 32:37f states very clearly. We receive this New Covenant promise when we are born again. It is not at all surprising that Nicodemus knew nothing about it...
Blessings,
Carl Emerson.
Sorry but that is what it is all about. Priests and humans in general were never happy being told we have it all backwards
I agree, the one visable Holy Catholic Church. (Matthew 16:18.)
You have yet to give an exact date of when the Catholic Chuch supposedly apostatized. If it is your belief this happened in the early centuries of its existence, could you explain to me how an entire Church could apostatize, unless every single member of it agreed to do so, and all apostatized at the same point in time? Could you show using the "bible only", the verse or verses that prove it? Again, as I stated above, you have yet to give a date when this is supposed to have happen. So I'll ask once again, could you give me a firm date of when this great historical event took place?
I'll put it to you this way. (with the help of Catholicanswers.cm) As Catholics, we put the Church before the Bible because the Church existed first and compiled the Bible. The authority of the Bible depends on that of the Church. Then we use the Bible to prove the Church; we use it not as an inspired volume, but merely as a historical document. From the Gospels as historical documents we learn that Christ founded a Church, but the authority of the Gospels as inspired writings rests on the word of the Church.
Though collections of sacred writings, varying in extent, existed in the various local Churches of Christendom, the canon or official list of Scripture was only compiled by the Church toward the end of the fourth century—at Hippo in 393, Carthage in 397, whence it was sent to Rome for confirmation in 419. The Bible may be called the notebook of the Church, and she has always claimed to be the guardian, exponent, and interpreter of it. . . .
Real man? sure. Inspired by God? Well, let me ask you this, with the exception of the author of the book of Revelation....St.John, could you show (from the bible alone) where any N.T. writer explicitly claims that he himself is writing at the direct mandate of God?
Have a Blessed day
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