A Bad "Design"

[OldWiseGuy]

If I were a deity, I would be ashamed if I designed humans. Here are some awful "design" flaws which are easily explainable with evolution, but make no sense if the human body was designed from scratch.


2. The strain on our spines. Evolutionary explanation: freeing up the hands was more advantageous than back problems were disadvantageous during and before reproductive years, thus this trait was naturally selected for. Why this is a flaw for design: a deity could easily design a skeleton that allowed for bipedal movement without creating horrific back problems. These issues are excessively common in our species, along with issues with most of our supporting joints, such as our knees and hips. These problems are not something that has to occur in order to achieve bipedal movement, so why make a design that has these issues?

Back problems, as well as most others, are caused by misuse of the body, either by the individual or their ancestors, i.e. 'sins of the fathers'. I had back problems until I stopped abusing my back. At one point in my life I quit all my bad habits and began fasting. After a most difficult three-day fast I attained a level of health and fitness (without exercise) that I had never known before, such a level that I almost couldn't believe it. Ask any 'health freak' or experienced doctor if our problems stem from design or misuse.

 

[bhsmte]

Back problems, as well as most others, are caused by misuse of the body, either by the individual or their ancestors, i.e. 'sins of the fathers'. I had back problems until I stopped abusing my back. At one point in my life I quit all my bad habits and began fasting. After a most difficult three-day fast I attained a level of health and fitness (without exercise) that I had never known before, such a level that I almost couldn't believe it. Ask any 'health freak' or experienced doctor if our problems stem from design or misuse.

Any orthopedist will tell you, some of our problems are indeed related to design and that design increases the probability of problems arising.

 

[AV1611VET]

Any orthopedist will tell you, some of our problems are indeed related to design and that design increases the probability of problems arising.

It's not a design problem, it's a sin problem.

Notice this passage in Ecclesiastes, describing a person growing old:

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Verse 1 = indifference

Verse 2 = he is losing his eyesight

Verse 3 = loss of teeth

Verse 4 = loss of hearing; can't sleep

Verse 5 = phobias; neglect of yardwork; insects bugging him; no libido

Verse 6 = telomere shortening; death imminent

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Split Rock]

Yes, but you see who built the Titanic, don't you?

The WHITE STAR Line?

Ring a bell?

Seriously?? Are you really implying its the Devil's company????

 

[Split Rock]

The point at which they meet is a wonderful design. Food goes down, sound and speech come out, thanks to the glottis and epiglottis.

I don't think its a wonderful design when I am coughing up my iced tea because I can't breathe.

 

[Loudmouth]

The point at which they meet is a wonderful design. Food goes down, sound and speech come out, thanks to the glottis and epiglottis.

It's all wonderful until you choke on your food and die.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes, but you see who built the Titanic, don't you?

The WHITE STAR Line?

Ring a bell?

The Titanic was a real boat, not just a story in a book.

 

[Loudmouth]

In their story, none of the passengers were lost.

You can write anything in a story.

 

[Papias]

Good start with the list. Some others:

Stuff NOT included. For instance, wouldn't it be a good design to include voltage detectors, like many other animals have? That would make modern homes much safer. The same goes for radiation / radon detectors, eyes that sense the earth's magnetic field (like migrating birds have), etc. Lungs that detect deficient O2, not just a build up of CO2, would prevent many asphyxiation deaths each year, as would the detection of CO, etc.

For all those things (and more) - it's as if humans were designed to live as chimps in Africa. Hold on.......

Papias

P. S. -

Another one - I was watching a scientist colleague giving a talk. She had to look at the screen, then turn her head to us, the screen, then us. Jerk one way, then the other, over and over. I realized that here was this incredible computer (her brain) which was one of the most powerful computers I know, being jerked back and forth dozens of times. Then it struck me - why is this most important organ stuck out on an appendage (the head),where it is hard to keep warm, is in danger of injury, and even worse, is attached to the sense organs and hence must be jerked around whenever one looks around? It's in so much danger that we've evolved a huge, thick, wasteful skull around it to protected it from the inevitable impacts. How much better to put it by the heart - for more efficient oxygenation, heating, protection, and so on? But no.

 

[Loudmouth]

Good start with the list. Some others:

Stuff NOT included. For instance, wouldn't it be a good design to include voltage detectors, like many other animals have? That would make modern homes much safer. The same goes for radiation / radon detectors, eyes that sense the earth's magnetic field (like migrating birds have), etc. Lungs that detect deficient O2, not just a build up of CO2, would prevent many asphyxiation deaths each year, as would the detection of CO, etc.

For all those things (and more) - it's as if humans were designed to live as chimps in Africa. Hold on.......

Papias

P. S. -

Another one - I was watching a scientist colleague giving a talk. She had to look at the screen, then turn her head to us, the screen, then us. Jerk one way, then the other, over and over. I realized that here was this incredible computer (her brain) which was one of the most powerful computers I know, being jerked back and forth dozens of times. Then it struck me - why is this most important organ stuck out on an appendage (the head),where it is hard to keep warm, is in danger of injury, and even worse, is attached to the sense organs and hence must be jerked around whenever one looks around? It's in so much danger that we've evolved a huge, thick, wasteful skull around it to protected it from the inevitable impacts. How much better to put it by the heart - for more efficient oxygenation, heating, protection, and so on? But no.

It's not just humans. Think of the poor bats. God supposedly came up with this very effecient flow through lung system for birds that works pretty darn good. Then God gets to bats, and apparently forgets all about it. It's kind of like the notochord and the forward facing retina. All of the sudden the species has fur, so it can't have flow through lungs . . . for absolutely no reason.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's all wonderful until you choke on your food and die.

Actually that would be considered a good death (no long term suffering).

P.S. You're not supposed to swallow your food whole in big chunks. That why God made teeth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's not a design problem, it's a sin problem.

Notice this passage in Ecclesiastes, describing a person growing old:

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Verse 1 = indifference

Verse 2 = he is losing his eyesight

Verse 3 = loss of teeth

Verse 4 = loss of hearing; can't sleep

Verse 5 = phobias; neglect of yardwork; insects bugging him; no libido

Verse 6 = telomere shortening; death imminent

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

It's almost as if God fashioned us purposely to (gasp) suffer and die.

 

[Loudmouth]

Actually would be considered a good death (no long term suffering).

Then the Ford Pinto was a well designed car because going out in a ball of fire is a "good" death.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then the Ford Pinto was a well designed car because going out in a ball of fire is a "good" death.

The Pinto was designed by people who evolved. If created people had designed it that wouldn't have happened.

 

[bhsmte]

The Pinto was designed by people who evolved. If created people had designed it that wouldn't have happened.

Does this mean some people are evolved and some were created?

 

[AV1611VET]

The Pinto was designed by people who evolved. If created people had designed it that wouldn't have happened.

LOL

 

[Loudmouth]

The Pinto was designed by people who evolved. If created people had designed it that wouldn't have happened.

How do you determine what a bad design is?

 

[keith99]

Good start with the list. Some others:

Stuff NOT included. For instance, wouldn't it be a good design to include voltage detectors, like many other animals have? That would make modern homes much safer. The same goes for radiation / radon detectors, eyes that sense the earth's magnetic field (like migrating birds have), etc. Lungs that detect deficient O2, not just a build up of CO2, would prevent many asphyxiation deaths each year, as would the detection of CO, etc.

For all those things (and more) - it's as if humans were designed to live as chimps in Africa. Hold on.......

Papias

P. S. -

Another one - I was watching a scientist colleague giving a talk. She had to look at the screen, then turn her head to us, the screen, then us. Jerk one way, then the other, over and over. I realized that here was this incredible computer (her brain) which was one of the most powerful computers I know, being jerked back and forth dozens of times. Then it struck me - why is this most important organ stuck out on an appendage (the head),where it is hard to keep warm, is in danger of injury, and even worse, is attached to the sense organs and hence must be jerked around whenever one looks around? It's in so much danger that we've evolved a huge, thick, wasteful skull around it to protected it from the inevitable impacts. How much better to put it by the heart - for more efficient oxygenation, heating, protection, and so on? But no.

Except that this would mean a longer transmission time from the eyes, ears and nose, the main sensory organs. Result a more 'poorly designed' predator has turned you into a meal.

Of course that assumes a human designed to compete in the wide world where there are dangerous things.

 

[SkyWriting]

If I were a deity, I would be ashamed if I designed humans. Here are some awful "design" flaws which are easily explainable with evolution, but make no sense if the human body was designed from scratch.

1. That our respiratory system and gastrointestinal system share the same tube at any point. Evolutionary explanation: building upon preexisting structures to allow for multiple functions is far more common and requires fewer mutations than the development of completely separate, independent structures. Why this is a flaw for design: choking. A deity would easily be able to make two separate tubes that were just near each other, never haveing to significantly change the positions of any other internal organs or external features to prevent the choking hazard produced by this "design", which has no benefits over two separate tubes. In fact, the tubes are separate for most of their length. But not for enough of it to prevent thousands of deaths every year in just the U.S. alone, B.E.CPR - Become Educated in CPR .

2. The strain on our spines. Evolutionary explanation: freeing up the hands was more advantageous than back problems were disadvantageous during and before reproductive years, thus this trait was naturally selected for. Why this is a flaw for design: a deity could easily design a skeleton that allowed for bipedal movement without creating horrific back problems. These issues are excessively common in our species, along with issues with most of our supporting joints, such as our knees and hips. These problems are not something that has to occur in order to achieve bipedal movement, so why make a design that has these issues?

3. Shoulder and other joint instability. Evolutionary explanation: it is a consequence of allowing for a wider range of motion; natural biology just won't be able to produce joints that don't have reduced stability with increased mobility. Why this is a flaw for design: unless the designer has limits, this is inexcusable. Tendons would just have to be made stronger to fix this, really.

now for the bad ones people sometimes bring up. These aren't really "design flaws", but sometimes people bring them up as if they are.

1. Eye placement. I have heard some people argue that our eye placement is bad, that they should be placed farther apart to give us a wider field of vision, or some other such nonsense. Our eyes are fine where they are, in fact, this is typical eye placement for predators, and humans were primarily hunter gatherers way back. Eyes farther apart would prevent us from having as much focus on objects as we do, and make us less precise. This is only an advantage for prey animals, who aren't looking to target moving objects, but rather need to detect movement from as wide a view as possible. Are our eyes the greatest design in the animal world? No, but they aren't bad by any means, and they get the job done. What use would freeing up our hands be if we didn't have the ability to focus our eyes and be dexterous with them?

2. Feet not like hands: Our limbs no longer make it much of an advantage to have feet that function like hands, which many other apes do. Our bodies are unstable enough as it is without us trying to hop around carrying stuff with both our hands and one of our feet.

3. Ear placement and nose placement: these are similar to the eye placement arguments. Our ears are forward so we can communicate with people easier (collect all visual and auditory information while facing the same direction), and we can always use our ever so handy hands to bring things to our face for smell, or just bend over a bit. Besides, would we really want our noses any closer to our anuses than they have to be? I sure don't.

What? No links to reputable experts or peer reviewed articles?

Because no professional in their right mind would suggest
they could improve on the human design.

Not
one
ever
has.

 

[SkyWriting]

Here are some awful "design" flaws which are easily explainable with evolution, but make no sense if the human body was designed from scratch.

1. gastrointestinal system

I work with tubes that convey material.
They get plugged and need to be blown clear......with air.

2. Go ahead. Try to do better.
You will fail.

3. Go ahead. Try to do better.
You will fail.

1. Eye placement.
Go ahead. Try to do better. You will fail.

2. Feet not like hands
Go ahead. Try to do better. You will fail.

3. Ear placement and nose placement
Go ahead. Try to do better. You will fail.


I had a class in college where all 250 people in the lecture hall designed aliens with
unique features that "improved" on human abilities. This class had been offered
for over 10 years. Every person and every class agreed that the attributes lost were
greater than the ones gained.

Design classes.

http://cola.siu.edu/academics/course-information/ad.html