• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

9/11 Truth for Dummies: Wrap Your Head Around One Thing

H

HorsieJuice

Guest
Ok. I have to be honest, I'm pretty much screwed when it comes to math.

Then you shouldn't be arguing engineering with engineers.

I just can't for some reason believe that the top of a building could perfectly destroy the vast majority of the rest of the building.

That "top of the building" was still something like 18 stories on one tower and 30 stories on another: that "top of the building" was bigger than the entirety of most buildings you likely worked on.

I have seen it many, many times, and I have never seen what I have seen concerning 911. I worked in construction and demo for years. I've watched steel structures sit there in defiance, even after being demo'ed. I have never see a pyroclastic cloud, red hot even molten metal, or even debris burning for weeks.

The WTC was larger, designed differently, and had suffered different damage than the buildings on which you worked. Why would you expect it to behave the same way?

I'm never goanna be able to explain it mathematically. So I'm going to try to find out by different means.

My suggestion: find a free, downloadable engineering game. One of the first two links from this site should work well: BridgeBuilder-Game.com - The ultimate bridge building games website

Play around with that (make sure to turn on the Stress option) and watch as the load shifts as the train drives over the bridge. Watch how putting supports in different areas makes the structure stronger or weaker - including how trying to strengthen one area can actually focus the stresses into a single point, weakening the entire structure.

This one is ok, too if you want to see how removing certain supports can cause twisting/buckling motions in certain members.

But ultimately, if you can't explain it mathematically, you will never be able to "find out by different means." Period. Mathematics is the language of engineering. Mathematics is how you describe the behavior of physical objects. Without it, your ideas will be nothing more than blind guesses.
 
Upvote 0

Psalm 91

Newbie
Sep 22, 2012
2,149
91
✟42,279.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
For rhetorical effect, and an aversion to facts, weren't you supposed to say '19 arabs living in caves'? I don't want you to miss a chance to use hyperbole to exaggerate/misrepresent the truth. ^_^


Btodd


Sir, it is you who refuses to open your mind to any other person's ideas. And not only that, but are critical of other's opinions and accuse them of "misrepresenting" the truth. It wouldn't be so bad if you were kind, but you are not. Why are you so threatened?


Forty years from now, there is a good chance that 80% of the people will know it was an inside job, just like the 80% who no longer believe that JFK was killed by Oswald. If it weren't a possibility, it would have gone away long ago, but the questions and suspicion NEVER go away. Most of the 80% who will stop believing the official explanation will be people like me who know nothing about science but have common sense. You can keep talking about all of the scientific stuff, but when you look at the video, common sense tells you that something is not right! You can ignore my posts all that you want since I cannot engage in scientific discussions, I don't care. But I am sitting back and seeing the attention you are giving this topic and how passionate you are about it. Why? If you and the elites are right and Arabs with boxcutters caused the the towers to fall, the truth, either way, will prevail.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keith99

sola dosis facit venenum
Jan 16, 2008
23,111
6,801
72
✟378,551.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
For one, because he worked in water testing.

Why would you believe one man instead of the rest of the people that work at Underwriter's Laboratories, when he was speaking about a project he wasn't even involved in?

Why don't I trust the Underwriter's Laboratories? Because I don't trust anyone anymore, not the government, not the "experts", not anyone involved in anything this big anymore. Why would I? They killed Andrew Breitbart and Michael Hastings. They spy on us every chance they get, through our emails, our phone lines, cameras and satellites. They bribed congressmen to vote for an UNAFFORDABLE CARE ACT which they didn't even read. They are spending us into bankruptcy and selling us to China. They have gotten involved in war after war since the '60's with no plan at all to win, only to kill a lot of people including our own. And now they may have killed 3,000 Americans just to satisfy a bunch of evil old bankers. Why on earth would I trust my government? Why would I trust the "experts" who've either been bought or who side with them to always be on the "right" side politically?

I trust regular people with eyes to see and who ask questions.

Why trust 'regular people' you have never met and have absolutely no reason to even think have any expertise?

You seem to be trusting people like the one who wrote the piece that started this thread which got simple High School level Physics dead wrong and ignoring people who went on to graduate degrees in Physics or Engineering.

Did you go to college? If so didn't you ever get to know anyone in the sciences who you thought was honest? Or Church, or a bike club or if you have kids the other parents whose kids are on the team.

There are people with at least undergrad degrees in the sciences pretty much everywhere.

Yet instead of trying to find such among the people you actually meet you are instead trusting people on the internet who are making a career out of propagating conspiracy theories.

EDIT: What I am quoting is a post by Psalm 91 which improperly quoted Btodd. I'm pretty sure that the very first line is his and the rest if Psalm 91.
 
Upvote 0

Psalm 91

Newbie
Sep 22, 2012
2,149
91
✟42,279.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Why trust 'regular people' you have never met and have absolutely no reason to even think have any expertise?

You seem to be trusting people like the one who wrote the piece that started this thread which got simple High School level Physics dead wrong and ignoring people who went on to graduate degrees in Physics or Engineering.

Did you go to college? If so didn't you ever get to know anyone in the sciences who you thought was honest? Or Church, or a bike club or if you have kids the other parents whose kids are on the team.

There are people with at least undergrad degrees in the sciences pretty much everywhere.

Yet instead of trying to find such among the people you actually meet you are instead trusting people on the internet who are making a career out of propagating conspiracy theories.

EDIT: What I am quoting is a post by Psalm 91 which improperly quoted Btodd. I'm pretty sure that the very first line is his and the rest if Psalm 91.


It doesn't matter how smart or educated a person is. If they side with the leader in power at the time or their basic values tell them to side with their country, no matter what, they are going to make the science fit. There is no one who is not biased in some way, ever. Even those who claim to be unbiased still have a bias which they pride themselves on masking. I love to watch O'Reilly claim that he is not biased politically, he's an Independent in the voting booth, and then he proceeds to fight against conservatives when it pleases him, against liberals when it pleases him and Fundamentalist Christians when it pleases him and the White House when it pleases him, all under the guise of "looking out for us". He's not looking out for anyone. He just likes to go against the majority and he's biased in that way. Everyone is biased and that controls what they say and do.


And actually, I see the highly educated people as being the most liberal politically, anti-Christian, pro-government and just as money-loving as the redneck in rural areas. Why do you think that "experts" are hired for either the defense or the prosecution in a criminal trial? Both see the same evidence and each sides with either the defense or prosecution. Some experts make a living by being "experts".

In the end, they are just people, like the rest of us, who are prone to make mistakes just like the rest of us. I worked with many doctors and they are in a highly regarded profession but they make mistakes all of the time. No one is better than anyone else. We are all human.

So I go by the Word of God, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 9:10 I think more believers can be found among the common man than among scientists. I think the highly educated don't necessarily have common sense or faith. Most of them believe in Evolution and I don't think that is smart at all.
 
Upvote 0

Btodd

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2003
3,677
294
✟27,874.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Sir, it is you who refuses to open your mind to any other person's ideas. And not only that, but are critical of other's opinions and accuse them of "misrepresenting" the truth. It wouldn't be so bad if you were kind, but you are not. Why are you so threatened?


Forty years from now, there is a good chance that 80% of the people will know it was an inside job, just like the 80% who no longer believe that JFK was killed by Oswald. If it weren't a possibility, it would have gone away long ago, but the questions and suspicion NEVER go away. Most of the 80% who will stop believing the official explanation will be people like me who know nothing about science but have common sense. You can keep talking about all of the scientific stuff, but when you look at the video, common sense tells you that something is not right! You can ignore my posts all that you want since I cannot engage in scientific discussions, I don't care. But I am sitting back and seeing the attention you are giving this topic and how passionate you are about it. Why? If you and the elites are right and Arabs with boxcutters caused the the towers to fall, the truth, either way, will prevail.

I'm not kind to ManFromUncle for the reasons I already articulated, so guilty as charged there.

And if you don't care about science, then there's no sense in even thinking about how the buildings fell, because that is a scientific question, whether it involves severed columns, fires and collapse, or a conspiratorial controlled demolition.


Btodd
 
Upvote 0

Paul01

Sinner
Jan 29, 2013
1,257
69
Missouri
✟16,805.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes I have taken that into consideration. I left every single ounce in that calculation as if all 122,724 tons fell 18 feet into the 91st floor. Truth is a lot of debris burnt up and even fell to the way side. Also, none of the naysayers take into account Mass is the amount of matter present in a body while weight is a measure of how strongly gravity pulls on that matter. Mass is an intrinsic property of the body and remains the same wherever the body might be. Weight is a force, and force is (Mass * Acceleration). The mass of the TWC was many times greater than the weight coming down upon it. The greater the mass of an object, the more sluggish the object becomes in relation to change. Mass is a measure of an object's inertia. Thus, the mass of an object is directly proportional to its inertia. A 1.5 billion Lbs. object is going to destroy a 13.6 K Lbs. object just by it sheer mass. There simply is not enough force to act upon the WTC's mass, changing it's state of rest, into free fall.

No matter what is said. Energy is dissipated every time it acts on another force. It must first destroy the floor below it by exerting 53,000 PSI to destroy the center Colum alone. Then on what energy is left is there to fall to the next floor to meet an unchanged resistance of a minimum 53,000 yet again. However the falling material is losing mass to pulverized dust, slabs of concrete have fell over the side of the building. The object has slowed due to resistance and is smaller in size.

You make the statement, "...The mass of the TWC was many times greater than the weight coming down upon it...", right after giving me a lesson on the distinction between mass and force? :scratch:

Though not explicitly stated you imply that the basis for your argument is that each floor was designed to carry the load of all floors above it. This is simply not how skyscrapers are designed. If you can reference a structural building code (any code) that spells out such a requirement I would love to see it. There are components of the building that ARE designed for these loads...but not the parts of individual floors that actually were impacted by the floors above. You have piles, columns, etc. that will indeed see a portion of the entire building load. But that isn't what the collapsing portion of the building actually impacted.

I think in part of your response you are talking about impact loading but you have no mention of velocity and you seem to be haphazardly mixing weight and mass terms so I'm not sure how to address it.

Another problem with trying to simplify the collapse scenario is just taking a simple wide flange member as an example, and consider how the section modulus varies, often vastly, depending on load orientation. It's obvious that any torsionally loaded member in particular would have substantially less capacity than had it been loaded in pure strong axis bending. I would argue that every single member was subjected on some level to such impact loading. This is another of a huge list of problems with trying to oversimplify the collapse.

In your 2nd paragraph, are you trying to say that material (I assume yield) stress values are a predictor of it's ability to absorb impact loads? Not sure I follow exactly what the basis is for your argument here. You are also now bringing the "size" of the falling building into the discussion here - so you're saying it undergoes negative acceleration, in part due to a reduction in it's volume?
 
Upvote 0
M

ManFromUncle

Guest
Though not explicitly stated you imply that the basis for your argument is that each floor was designed to carry the load of all floors above it. This is simply not how skyscrapers are designed.

The absurdity of this statement should settle the futility of your position for anyone paying attention. If any point in the skyscraper is not designed to carry the weight above it then anyone sitting in a tall building right now is in big trouble. You are twisting yourself in knots in an attempt to prove what defies the laws of physics, that a few floors collapsing goes faster and faster because of the accumulation of collapsing floors, through a path of enormous resistance.

As the main post explains, all you need to know is that steel, even soft steel, is thousands of times denser than air, and so any falling mass could not fall through that resistance at the same speed as it would fall through air. That is because heavier mass does not speed up if it accumulates. It can only expend energy and slow down.

The towers were not a house of cards waiting to come down. The official explanation is pure cartoon physics and impossible, the same as Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff and making a hole in the ground when he hits that comes out in China.

The rest, the molten steel, the straight cut beams flung hither and yon, the presence of thermite explosives, the NORAD stand-down, all the questions about the Pentagon, is all icing on the cake, and there is a lot of icing. Here is the complete 90 minute documentary run by Colorado PBS, by 1700 Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. It's free. If you be American, watch it.

[youtube]6xif0jIT_ZM[/youtube]

9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out : Colorado Public Television, KBDI 12 in Denver, Colorado
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keith99

sola dosis facit venenum
Jan 16, 2008
23,111
6,801
72
✟378,551.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
It doesn't matter how smart or educated a person is. If they side with the leader in power at the time or their basic values tell them to side with their country, no matter what, they are going to make the science fit. There is no one who is not biased in some way, ever. Even those who claim to be unbiased still have a bias which they pride themselves on masking. I love to watch O'Reilly claim that he is not biased politically, he's an Independent in the voting booth, and then he proceeds to fight against conservatives when it pleases him, against liberals when it pleases him and Fundamentalist Christians when it pleases him and the White House when it pleases him, all under the guise of "looking out for us". He's not looking out for anyone. He just likes to go against the majority and he's biased in that way. Everyone is biased and that controls what they say and do.


And actually, I see the highly educated people as being the most liberal politically, anti-Christian, pro-government and just as money-loving as the redneck in rural areas. Why do you think that "experts" are hired for either the defense or the prosecution in a criminal trial? Both see the same evidence and each sides with either the defense or prosecution. Some experts make a living by being "experts".

In the end, they are just people, like the rest of us, who are prone to make mistakes just like the rest of us. I worked with many doctors and they are in a highly regarded profession but they make mistakes all of the time. No one is better than anyone else. We are all human.

So I go by the Word of God, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 9:10 I think more believers can be found among the common man than among scientists. I think the highly educated don't necessarily have common sense or faith. Most of them believe in Evolution and I don't think that is smart at all.

It matters a lot how smart and educated someone is. At the least it is a major contributing factor to how good a lie they can create.

If it is someone trying to figure out which side is accurate it makes all the difference in the world as the smarter and better educated person is in a far better position to catch real inconsistencies or errors.

You claim to be using some common sense. OK then please explain how the idea that someone managed to sneak into 2 buildings and plant the explosives to take them down. And not just take them down but to fire at each level just as the falling mass from above reaches that point.

And somehow no one ever noticed it.
These are not a Medieval Castle with secret passages. So how did someone plant all these perfectly times charges unnoticed?

Heck if you go that far it makes a lot more sense to go all the way. The charges were put in place when during construction! If the explosives were incorporated into the building materials before they made it to the site.

You are choking on gnats when it comes to the official explanation and swallowing camels when it comes to the alternatives proposed by the 'truthers' .
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,132
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,396.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The absurdity of this statement should settle the futility of your position for anyone paying attention. If any point in the skyscraper is not designed to carry the weight above it then anyone sitting in a tall building right now is in big trouble. You are twisting yourself in knots in an attempt to prove what defies the laws of physics, that a few floors collapsing goes faster and faster because of the accumulation of collapsing floors, through a path of enormous resistance.
Again you intermix static force with dynamic force. A building stands because it's structure bears static force. There was not "enormous resistence" because the structural supports were weakened and the dynamic force could not be withstood. That's why the early "pancake theory was discounted by the NIST study.
NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards.
As the main post explains, all you need to know is that steel, even soft steel, is thousands of times denser than air, and so any falling mass could not fall through that resistance at the same speed as it would fall through air. That is because heavier mass does not speed up if it accumulates. It can only expend energy and slow down.
You keep disputing a point that isn't made. The NIST used the term "essentially" a free fall, which isn't saying the same thing as falling at the same rate as if in thin air.

NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NIST NCSTAR 1-5A).
 
Upvote 0
M

ManFromUncle

Guest


And once again, the dynamic force of a few floors of 3-inch thick concrete floor slabs, their pans and trusses, cannot crush 95,000 tons of structural steel, one third of that in the vertical backbone, anymore than the dynamic force of Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff can make a deep hole in the ground, instead of Wile E. getting squashed flat.


Twin Tower core backbone under construction
x-wtccore.jpg


But here is the important part: EVEN IF IT COULD, since steel is 8,000 times denser than air even in its liquid state, no mass could fall through it at the same speed it falls through air. it doesn't matter if it was "only" 80% of free-fall acceleration. That's like saying, no officer, I wasn't doing 160 MPH in a 60 MPH zone. It was only 150 mph. In other words, you are not even in the ball park.

Every piece of the Windsor tower which fell also had "dynamic force," and it burned for 20 hours not one, and was of weaker construction. None of these partial collapses "caused a force that the tower was not built to withstand." Because, yes, towers are designed to withstand fires and partial collapses too. That means yes, they are designed to survive "dynamic force."


Windsor fire, burned 20 hours
windsor7.jpg
[SIZE=-1]

[SIZE=-1]Windsor fire damage
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
windsor6.jpg
[SIZE=-1]


[/SIZE]Windsor fire time frame of partial, stopped collapses

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html

Time Collapse Situation

1:29 East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:02 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:11 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 South middle section of about 17th ~ 20th floors collapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor
4:17 Debris on the Upper Technical Floor fell down
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Trogdor the Burninator

Senior Veteran
Oct 19, 2004
6,259
2,897
✟288,666.00
Faith
Christian
And once again, the dynamic force of a few floors of 3-inch thick concrete floor slabs, their pans and trusses, cannot crush 95,000 tons of structural steel, one third of that in the vertical backbone, anymore than the dynamic force of Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff can make a deep hole in the ground, instead
of Wile E. getting squashed flat.

You keep quoting the mass of the remaining structure like it means something, even after multiple people including engineers on this thread have pointed out that it isn't relevant - the strength of the few structural members meeting the impacting force at any particular instant is.

It's like looking at the Tacoma Bridge collapse and quoting that "Air isn't denser than steel, and even with a few cables failing the rest were designed to hold the whole bridge up, therefore the bridge collapse must be a conspiracy!"
 
Upvote 0

Trogdor the Burninator

Senior Veteran
Oct 19, 2004
6,259
2,897
✟288,666.00
Faith
Christian
The rest, the molten steel, the straight cut beams flung hither and yon, the presence of thermite explosives, the NORAD stand-down, all the questions about the Pentagon, is all icing on the cake, and there is a lot of icing.

Has someone from Landscape Gardeners and Sales Engineers for 9/11 Truth found the plane that was supposed to hit the Pentagon, plus all the passengers and crew yet?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Btodd
Upvote 0
M

ManFromUncle

Guest
You keep quoting the mass of the remaining structure like it means something, even after multiple people including engineers on this thread have pointed out that it isn't relevant - the strength of the few structural members meeting the impacting force at any particular instant is.

It's like looking at the Tacoma Bridge collapse and quoting that "Air isn't denser than steel, and even with a few cables failing the rest were designed to hold the whole bridge up, therefore the bridge collapse must be a conspiracy!"

Yep a bridge has just the same architecture as a skyscraper, alright. A horizontal load-bearing structure vs. a vertical one with nothing but steel between it and the ground throughout 47 core columns.

See how dumb they think you are?
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,132
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,396.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And once again, the dynamic force of a few floors of 3-inch thick concrete floor slabs, their pans and trusses, cannot crush 95,000 tons of structural steel, one third of that in the vertical backbone, anymore than the dynamic force of Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff can make a deep hole in the ground, instead
of Wile E. getting squashed flat.

I don't know if you simply can't get it or simply aren't willing to to.
Every piece of the Windsor tower which fell also had "dynamic force," and it burned for 20 hours not one, and was of weaker construction. None of these partial collapses "caused a force that the tower was not built to withstand." Because, yes, towers are designed to withstand fires and partial collapses too. That means yes, they are designed to survive "dynamic force."


Windsor fire, burned 20 hours

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
There is no comparison. The two buildings are very different and circumstances very different.
 
Upvote 0

Paul01

Sinner
Jan 29, 2013
1,257
69
Missouri
✟16,805.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The absurdity of this statement should settle the futility of your position for anyone paying attention. If any point in the skyscraper is not designed to carry the weight above it then anyone sitting in a tall building right now is in big trouble...

By your logic, every point on the first floor is designed to carry the 109 stories above it. Buildings are not designed this way. Show me a building code from anywhere in the world that requires it. As I have clearly stated, columns and other components at the building's base carry the entire building load, not individual floors. If the collapsing floors had landed only on the columns and not also crashed into weaker members supporting individual floor loads, the lower floor on the receiving end of the collision could have withstood the impact. That's not what happened.

...That is because heavier mass does not speed up if it accumulates..."

False. Falling bodies subjected to gravitional force accelerate (W=mg). Acceleration is a measure of rate of change of velocity (a=dv/dt).
 
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Replaced by a robot, just like Biden.
Site Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
17,622
16,251
MI - Michigan
✟664,536.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The biggest piece of evidence supporting the facts that September 11th was a terrorist attack and not some super secret inside job perpetrated by George Bush, Dick Cheney, the US Government, the Israelis, and the Illuminati is right here. If there was one piece of real actual evidence that could remotely prove that it was an inside job, all the moon bats posting that it was would have been eliminated long ago.

The thing they can’t answer is what happened to the pilots and crews of the plains, the passengers, the guy that flew the drone/cruse missile into the pentagon, the hundreds of demolition experts that rigged the explosives, the pilots that shot down flight 93, the guy that developed the hologram that looked like planes flying, the guys that put the mind control drugs into the water supply so everyone in New York that day would have the same hallucination, the guys at the photo booths that digitally added plains to peoples pictures they took that day, the list goes on. All that from a guy that couldn’t say nuk-clear and lye-berry.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
This is absolutely crazy. I have tried to respond 4 or 5 times now with new theories and evidence, but every time CF has crashed on me and I have lost my post in it's entirety. I'm not going to stop trying though.
 
Upvote 0

contango

...and you shall live...
Jul 9, 2010
3,853
1,324
Sometimes here, sometimes there
✟31,996.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That makes sense, because in order to destroy computer files, you need to demolish an entire building.

I recently looked at some porn on my computer, but instead of clearing my cache and all the things I had searched for on Google, I blew it up with some dynamite. ^_^


Btodd

You should have destroyed your entire house. Maybe even taken out a block or two surrounding it.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I have even heard the argumet:
If you think DYNAMIC loads are not important take the challenge of even a 10kg weight dropped from 12ft (WTC story height)and try and catch it. WE WILL SEND THE FLOWERS.

I say: How about dropping 10kg weight 12ft and having 70 people stacked vertically (like the 70 floors of undamaged building were) try to catch that weight?

I'm pretty confident that the weight would be caught way above the ground.

The argument as stated is that if you drop something from a height of 12 feet, it will be moving at about 19 miles per hour by the time it reaches the ground. It doesn't matter whether it is a single brick or a 30 story building. After falling 12 feet it will be moving at about 19 mph.

So if the lower 79 floors are strong enough to support a stationary 31 story building, do you think they will be strong enough to support a 31 story building falling at 19 mph?

That's what I'm looking into. I honestly believe there are factors that the naysayers are not considering.

(1) The 'pancake theory' is ridiculous. The WTC did not pancake. They were completely pulverized into an indiscriminate pile of smoldering rubble.
pancakecollapse.jpg





(2) The structural make up of the towers is seen is completely inconsequential to it's collapse. This approach is wrong for two major reasons:

(a) The floors 31 floors falling onto the remaining 79 floors are likewise constructed, and use the same materials. To say they were able to completely smash threw the reaming building unimpeded is crazy.

(b) The lower 79 floors are made out of stronger, thicker, heavier, and more closely spaced beams. Simply put. more mass is always in the lower 2/3rds of a building to keep it stable, and give it the strength to hold the load of the higher floors.

(3) The WTC was not 'conventionally' built like below.


landmark1.jpg



The WTC flooring was a very heavy duty set of cross braced Vierendeel trusses.


construction.jpg



The World Trade Center towers used high-strength, load-bearing perimeter steel columns called Vierendeel trusses that were spaced closely together to form a strong, rigid wall structure, supporting virtually all lateral loads such as wind loads, and sharing the gravity load with the core columns. The perimeter structure containing 59 columns per side was constructed with extensive use of prefabricated modular pieces each consisting of three columns, three stories tall, connected by spandrel plates.[31] The spandrel plates were welded to the columns to create the modular pieces off-site at the fabrication shop.[32] Adjacent modules were bolted together with the splices occurring at mid-span of the columns and spandrels. The spandrel plates were located at each floor, transmitting shear stress between columns, allowing them to work together in resisting lateral loads. The joints between modules were staggered vertically so the column splices between adjacent modules were not at the same floor.
One of the reasons It is important to point this out is that the collum, perimiter wall, and the floor trussing was made to work in concert in carrying the entier load, and stresses of the building. In a starnderd building the colum and outer skin would carry th weight of the flooring, but in the WTC the flooring was part of the structures rigidity, and had it's part in sharing laterail, horizotial, and twisting loads. Meaing this, the flooring was not just suspended weight. It was part of the load bearing structer. Energy that affected any one point of the building would be absourbed by all thre systems at the same time.

(4) No consideration is given to how much energy (force) is dissapated in the destruction of an object. I have heard staments that oveR 4.1 billion joules OR 3,319,073,609 pound-force/foot² = 23,049,122 psi of energy would have built up from the falling structer before it hit the building underneith it. That means it would only take an affected are of 434.89 Sq inches in the 53,000 psi rated center colum to absorb that impact.
 
Upvote 0