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9/11 Truth for Dummies: Wrap Your Head Around One Thing

Psalm 91

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It always intrigues me how the human mind can do the psychological gymnastics to make an elaborate conspiracy like this work in one's mind.

Magnify certain evidence that fits the conspiracy and ignore everything that doesn't. Good ole confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, always fun to watch in action.


I guess the witness who may have been killed and his silent family, well, they probably wouldn't be intrigued. If they could and apparently they can't, because they can't, not even a "no comment" from them, they would applaud the "conspiracy theorists".
 
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Btodd

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Ok cool.... he's a liar.

So.... can we talk about what I'm actualy trying to findout?

Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.

How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?

Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?

In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

I'm not qualified to do the physics on this, but some of the engineers here that have already spoken might be able to help you. Also, have you checked the NIST report for their calculations?


Btodd
 
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Psalm 91

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Bolding mine.

What a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] poor conspiracy, they let him live for years and then killed him.

At least we know 2 things, neither James Bond or Mossad were involved.


First he was criticized because he produced no witnesses or testimony of the danger they may have been in. So he produces witnesses or experts who were in grave danger, one dying "on the way home from church" and another who backed out of his support for a 9/11 documentary and probably spared his life in doing so. But later when the 9/11 Report on Bldg. 7 was coming out, they decided that he might be a liability so they whacked him.

You guys keep questioning and questioning and LM is working hard answering your questions and you don't accept anything he says. I would fully trust LM as a sincere seeker for the truth and you guys just namby pamby, wish-washy, go along with the crowd people who will dispute anything which is not the status quo or which disputes Big Brother and the flimsy story given at the time. Bravo, LM!
 
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Btodd

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There is already a long string of highly unlikely witness and key expert deaths, like demolitions expert Danny Jowenko who said building 7 was definitely a demolition.

A few years later, Jowenko is killed in a single car accident at 10a.m. on a Sunday morning, driving back from church.

Earlier, you chastised Keith99 for 'leaving out information' that would not support his position regarding Robert Bowman. He honorably admitted that he did not read further and missed the information you pointed him to.

But you've introduced this idea that Jowenko was 'murdered' before, because he thought WTC7 was a demolition, based on the video he saw. When you brought that up, I informed you that Jowenko watched video of the Twin Towers collapsing, and he immediately said that they collapsed as a result of the upper mass exerting too much force on the damaged area that was plagued by fires. So, he didn't think the Twin Towers were a controlled demolition at all.

Yet, you just left that out. Why? Because it doesn't help your case, so you pretend it doesn't exist. Do I need to post the video of him saying this again?

Also, you failed to mention that the 'single car crash' that he died in had an important detail that could very well explain how it happened, instead of appealing to some super-secret murder...his large dog was in the car with him. I wonder if that might have been the reason his car swerved.

Barry Jennings said:
Then there is Barry Jennings, the NYC Emergency Response director who was the last man out of WTC 7, who said he heard explosions going off in the building which blew the lobby to Kingdom Come.

After he gave that interview, and 3 days before the final report on WTC 7 to be released, Jennings, a very vigorous 53, dies of unknown causes.

Barry Jennings actually distanced himself from Dylan Avery's attempt to co-opt his story for promoting conspiracy beliefs about 9/11, and said they had tried to use him in a way that he did not intend.

After distancing himself from the Truth Movement, it's not hard to understand why his family did not release any details about his death (it's the family's decision, which is why it's 'unknown'), because they were tired of being part of the propaganda that you constantly copy 'n paste, and just wanted to be left alone by the Truth Movement.

Here's a tip: People die. Both of these guys had already said what they were gonna say, so there wasn't any reason to 'have them killed' WAY after the fact. But don't let that stop you from making wild speculations about them, without any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever.

Now, hurry up and claim that the official explanation says that the steel melted again. :thumbsup:


Btodd.
 
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Btodd

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Why do you automatically believe Underwriter's Laboratories? Van Jones was fired for being a truther too, and he was a Communist friend of Obama's. Everyone who admits to being a truther gets fired. That is the government's way of keeping the facts away from the people: make truthers look unpatriotic and enemies of the victims. It works. They are not just made fun of, they're hated. People don't dare talk about it in public. It is really sad that political pressure led to social pressure to keep it hidden. And intelligent people are falling for it.

For one, because he worked in water testing.

Why would you believe one man instead of the rest of the people that work at Underwriter's Laboratories, when he was speaking about a project he wasn't even involved in?


Btodd
 
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Btodd

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That is not true. JFK's assassination was not possible the way the media told the story. It's taken until 2013 for 80% of the public to realize that. But that was 1963 so I can cut them some slack. 9/11 took place in 2001, people should have stood up and demanded explanations and answers to their questions, but they didn't. It was too painful, too upsetting, and people might think they were unpatriotic if they didn't believe the explanations, so they just ignored and accepted the story they were told.

It was certainly possible in the way it was portrayed. You will probably reference the 'magic bullet' theory without even knowing what the seating positions of Kennedy and Connelly were...which is the error most people make, because they watched Oliver Stone's movie and never checked the facts.


Btodd
 
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bhsmte

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I guess the witness who may have been killed and his silent family, well, they probably wouldn't be intrigued. If they could and apparently they can't, because they can't, not even a "no comment" from them, they would applaud the "conspiracy theorists".

Yep, that one guy, completely erases all the other hurdles one would have to get over for there to be a conspiracy here.

That is the definition of; confirmation bias.
 
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bhsmte

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It was certainly possible in the way it was portrayed. You will probably reference the 'magic bullet' theory without even knowing what the seating positions of Kennedy and Connelly were...which is the error most people make, because they watched Oliver Stone's movie and never checked the facts.


Btodd

Yep, the Warren commission got it right, all the way back in 1964. All the different conspiracy theories have come and gone, and it took modern technology to show they had it right 49 years ago.
 
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LostMarbels

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HR 5122 John Warner Defensive Act:

In yet another astonishingly treasonous act the U.S. administration has eliminated yet another key check to control out of control government, the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act. The Posse Comitatus Act abolished the use of the U.S. military against our own citizens and eliminated the ability of the U.S. government to eliminate the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights by declaring Martial Law.


Section 1076 of H.R. 5122.ENR allows the President to:
“...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States..., where the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy...”
This act attempts to nullify the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. 331-335) and gives the President the legal ability to declare Martial Law under any condition he so chooses.




HR 6166 Military Commissions Act

This bill has been known as the torture bill because it gives rights, and authority to the President to abduct, incarcerate, torture and detain without any rights provided by habeas corpus, any person, including an American indefinitely, without representation.


HR 645 National Emergency Centers Establishment Act​

This is the act that allowed what some call FEMA camps. In fact being an Internment camp Specialist is a Army MOS​


While you look threw this take notice that civilian inmates are to be keep separate from the convicted felons if the camp is on a prison's property. Also take notice that even though this is federal camp ran by the Federal Department of Prisons, convicted federal inmates are not allowed to be part of the 'Civilian Imate Program'. You cannot have any detainers or pending legal charges.... not a jail then. You also cannot have been convicted of any crime "real" crimes. Who are these camps for?​



HR 3162 USA Patriot Act​

Warrantless wire taps, searches, seizures, arrests. Detention of domestic terrorist.
SEC. 811. PENALTIES FOR TERRORIST CONSPIRACIES.

Look at this carefully now.... In HR 5122 the president is given the authority to deem something as an conspiracy, deem it necessary to declare martial law, and send in troops/ feds. HR 6166 give the military/feds the authority to arrest, detain, and incarcerate anyone under martial law without due process. HR 3162 Names a person who commits conspiracy as a domestic terrorist, and HR 645 gives you a place to put them. Add it together and the ones who would talk may be bye bye.
 
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ManFromUncle

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Earlier, you chastised Keith99 for 'leaving out information' that would not support his position regarding Robert Bowman. He honorably admitted that he did not read further and missed the information you pointed him to.

But you've introduced this idea that Jowenko was 'murdered' before, because he thought WTC7 was a demolition, based on the video he saw. When you brought that up, I informed you that Jowenko watched video of the Twin Towers collapsing, and he immediately said that they collapsed as a result of the upper mass exerting too much force on the damaged area that was plagued by fires. So, he didn't think the Twin Towers were a controlled demolition at all.

Yet, you just left that out. Why? Because it doesn't help your case, so you pretend it doesn't exist. Do I need to post the video of him saying this again?

Also, you failed to mention that the 'single car crash' that he died in had an important detail that could very well explain how it happened, instead of appealing to some super-secret murder...his large dog was in the car with him. I wonder if that might have been the reason his car swerved.



Barry Jennings actually distanced himself from Dylan Avery's attempt to co-opt his story for promoting conspiracy beliefs about 9/11, and said they had tried to use him in a way that he did not intend.

After distancing himself from the Truth Movement, it's not hard to understand why his family did not release any details about his death (it's the family's decision, which is why it's 'unknown'), because they were tired of being part of the propaganda that you constantly copy 'n paste, and just wanted to be left alone by the Truth Movement.

Here's a tip: People die. Both of these guys had already said what they were gonna say, so there wasn't any reason to 'have them killed' WAY after the fact. But don't let that stop you from making wild speculations about them, without any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever.

Now, hurry up and claim that the official explanation says that the steel melted again. :thumbsup:


Btodd.

Barry Jennings called Avery, scared out of his wits, and asked him to remove the part of the interview about "stepping over dead bodies.' He said in the interview "you know when it's a body." When he denied saying this at all Avery showed the tape, and he did say it.

Many witnesses were already dying under unlikely circumstances and Jennings clearly felt he was next. And he was., three days before the official Building 7 report was released (right! "People just die!")

As for Jowenko, he said "it would have taken years" to wire the Twin Towers, indicating that he did not know that the Bush brothers had the security contract since the 90's and therefore there was all the time in the world. Knowing that would he have felt compelled to come up with an alternative explanation?

The car crash was three days after former US Army War College Director Dr. Alan Sabrosky gave a television interview in which he cited Jowenko, and claimed Israeli Mossad involvement in 9/11 for the purpose of getting the US to invade Iraq, an arch-enemy. Remember Israel already has a history of using false flags to draw us into war, as in the USS Liberty.

Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at US Army War College, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. Concludes that a combination of treasonous elements in the US government and Israeli MOSSAD orchestrated 9/11, in order to enable invasion of Iraq.
[youtube]EPLU4N7gmY4[/youtube]

Was Jowenko about to change his mind about WTC 1 & 2? That would certainly get him killed. As for a big dog in the car, every big dog I've known knows how to ride more well-behaved than most children or even grown-ups. If the dog didn't ride well, Jowenko wouldn't be driving with him, because that would be stupid. And he was not a stupid man.

At the very best you've got Jowenko making a contradiction between what he thought of WTC 7 and WTC 1& 2. But he's just as dead, along with dozens of other witnesses.

Now the original question was, which you ignored, how could so many people have remained silent? I answered it as follows. Waiting for your response to that. You rushed to change the subject to an apparant contradiction made by Jowenko. Oh yes, the dead witness list is CNN, real tinfoil.

Why is it, that no one has come forward that was involved in the conspiracy you are discussing and given specific knowledge of how the conspiracy was carried out?

There are people sitting in prison who have kept silent about many crimes because they have families and children. Do you think the kind of people who plan these things ask you "pretty please, don't say anything? We'd really appreciate it?"

There is already a long string of highly unlikely witness and key expert deaths, like demolitions expert Danny Jowenko who said building 7 was definitely a demolition.

Dutch Demolition expert Danny Jowenko
[youtube]877gr6xtQIc[/youtube]

A few years later, Jowenko is killed in a single car accident at 10a.m. on a Sunday morning, driving back from church.

9/11: Dutch Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko Dies In “Car Crash” | Veterans Today


Jowenko2.JPG


Then there is Barry Jennings, the NYC Emergency Response director who was the last man out of WTC 7, who said he heard explosions going off in the building which blew the lobby to Kingdom Come.

Barry Jennings
[youtube]3Tr0TZa3WeI[/youtube]

Barry Jennings background:
Barry Jennings

After he gave that interview, and 3 days before the final report on WTC 7 to be released, Jennings, a very vigorous 53, dies of unknown causes.

BarryJennings.jpg

Barry Jennings Mystery



Then you forget about the anthrax attacks, when deadly letters were sent to each of the 3 major news station and the 2 key opponents of the Patriot Act.


9-11 Research: Anthrax Attacks
Daschle_letter.jpg


Bottom line, a mob, like the Mafia, doesn't ask permission to do what it does and then beg everyone to stay silent. It just does it, and anyone who knows anything knows it's better to pretend you don't.

CNN Dead witness list 2010
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-501477

Jennings died in a hospital on Aug. 19, 2008, only two days before the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) finally released its questionable report. A private investigator hired to sniff out the suspicious death returned the money to her client with the terse message, “Never contact me again.”

Kenneth Johannemann was a WTC janitor, who reported seeing explosions on the upper floors of the twin towers as well as a “massive explosion” in the basement of one. He rescued someone who had received full body burns at the base, not the top, of the building where the crash and fires were seen. He died in September 2008 of a gunshot wound that was ruled a suicide. His friends and associates didn’t believe it.


Michael Doran was a lawyer for several of the 9-11 victims. He died in a private plane crash in Ohio onApril 28, 2009.

Christopher Landis was operationsmanager for Safety Service Patrol for the Virginia Department of Transportation.

He appeared with a photo collection on a video called The PentaCon, showing various shots he had taken from his unobstructed view of the Pentagon crash and ensuing fire. Some of his pictures showed various people in government vehicles, who, apparently, should not have been on the scene so soon. Only a week after witnesses from the gas station near the Pentagon were filmed confirming his story, Landis allegedly committed suicide.

His family didn’t believe it.

Paul Smith was the Channel 7 news team helicopter pilot, who first flew around the WTC burning scene. Smith was killed on Oct. 7, 2007, and his wife was seriously injured, when a runaway taxicab jumped the curb and plowed into them on a NewYork sidewalk. The cab driver claimed he was run off the road by a black car,which has never been identified. Smith’s cameraman on 9-11, John Del Giorno, has since refused to talk to newsmen

about his filming of Flight 175, which crashed into the second tower, and what else he may have seen.

Deborah Palfrey said she ran a Washington, D.C. prostitution ring that had several 9-11 main players as clients, including former CIA director and co-chairman of the 9-11 Intelligence Inquiry Porter Goss. Miss Palfrey had said publicly, “I have information that would have been of great interest to the 9-11 Commission.” She withheld details because she wanted to expose it in court but told a talk show host on national radio that she had

explosive information. “I’m not planning to let anyone buy me off or make any kind of deal with me,” she said, “and no, I’m not planning to commit suicide.” On April 15, 2008, Miss Palfrey’s mother found her hanging by the neck on a nylon rope in a shed behind her Florida home. The official story was “suicide.”

Maj. Gen. DavidWherley was the officer who scrambled the fighter jets, much too late, into the Washington skies on 9-11. He was killed in the Washington Metro trains crash of June 22, 2009.

Salvatore Princiotta was a “first responder” NewYork City firefighter from Ladder 9. The side windows and windshield were inexplicably blown out of his fire truck.

Whatever Princiotta witnessed is not on record, and he was murdered in an alleged robbery on May 23, 2007.

David Graham saw three of the alleged hijackers in the Shreveport, La., airport prior to 9-11, but when he brought this information to the FBI after the fact, he received threats from the agents. Graham died of poisoning on Sept. 17, 2006. His case went uninvestigated and was quietly filed away.

October 1996: Security Firm with Connections to Bush Family Acquires Security Contract for World Trade Center


Marvin_Bush_2050081722-8146.jpg
Marvin Bush. [Source: Eric Draper / White House]A security company called Stratesec acquires an $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center. It is one of numerous contractors hired in the upgrade of security at the WTC following the 1993 bombing. Stratesec, which was formerly called Securacom, is responsible for installing the “security-description plan”—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center. It has a “completion contract” to provide some of the center’s security “up to the day the buildings fell down,” according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO.
Involved with Airport Security...

Directors Include Bush Family Member - Marvin P. Bush, the youngest brother of future President George W. Bush, is a director at Stratesec from 1993 to June 2000, when most of its work on these big projects is done. Wirt D. Walker III, a distant relative of George W. Bush, is chairman of the board at Stratesec from 1992, and its CEO from 1999 until January 2002.
 
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LostMarbels

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I’m not sure how you got 49.34 psi from those figures, but in any case trying to divide the mass of the upper floors evenly over the surface area of the building is wrong. The building floor surface and its supports are not a homogeneous object. We’re not talking about Jenga blocks.



It doesn’t really matter, since you’re asking the wrong question. The yield strength test for steel structural beams (and indeed almost all steel) is done via an increasing static force until the steel yields. The stresses applied to those same beams during a structure collapse (building, bridge, whatever) are dynamic forces. It’s akin to saying you can balance several bricks on your hand, versus dropping one brick on your hand from 30 cm up.



When you understand the nature of a collapse, you will understand that not only are the nature of the dynamic forces much higher, but the structure is far from homogeneous (hence my Jenga comment). The building collapse would hit some beams before others, some beams hit at the same time would be able to distribute the force acting on them better than others, some beams reach their yield strength and transfer the load acting on them to other beams etc. In other words, the nature of the forces are uneven, and only a fraction of the columns that you speak of will be resisting the force on “the building” at any once instant of the collapse.


Again wrong, since the force does not in any way spread out evenly over the entire floor below it. Now of course the upper floors would also be experiencing this phenomenon, however the entire dynamic mass ultimately has only one way to go – down.
Ok cool..... let me read this over. Thanks for the response.:thumbsup:
 
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Btodd

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Barry Jennings called Avery, scared out of his wits, and asked him to remove the part of the interview about "stepping over dead bodies.' He said in the interview "you know when it's a body." When he denied saying this at all Avery showed the tape, and he did say it.

This only comes from the mouth of Dylan Avery, who backed off his original claims in Loose Change, to the watered-down claims in Loose Change, Final Cut'. He admitted that when they made Loose Change, it was intended to be fictional and controversial, and every successive version of it was watered down to the point of 'well, the government must have known what was going to happen'.

But I'm sure he's telling the truth this time. :o


ManFromUncle said:
As for Jowenko, he said "it would have taken years" to wire the Twin Towers, indicating that he did not know that the Bush brothers had the security contract since the 90's and therefore there was all the time in the world. Knowing that would he have felt compelled to come up with an alternative explanation?

He wasn't articulating a problem with mere 'access', but instead, a problem of logistics. People like you who pretend that wiring every single part of every column to collapse in perfectly-timed succession, ignore just how complicated that is. And that's if it were normal demolitions charges; you contend that they were thermite, which needs to 'melt' the beam horizontally. Good luck with that hypothesis.

ManFromUncle said:
The car crash was three days after former US Army War College Director Dr. Alan Sabrosky gave a television interview in which he cited Jowenko, and claimed Israeli Mossad involvement in 9/11 for the purpose of getting the US to invade Iraq, an arch-enemy. Remember Israel already has a history of using false flags to draw us into war, as in the USS Liberty.

Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at US Army War College, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. Concludes that a combination of treasonous elements in the US government and Israeli MOSSAD orchestrated 9/11, in order to enable invasion of Iraq.
[youtube]EPLU4N7gmY4[/youtube]

Was Jowenko about to change his mind about WTC 1 & 2? That would certainly get him killed. As for a big dog in the car, every big dog I've known knows how to ride more well-behaved than most children or even grown-ups. If the dog didn't ride well, Jowenko wouldn't be driving with him, because that would be stupid. And he was not a stupid man.

At the very best you've got Jowenko making a contradiction between what he thought of WTC 7 and WTC 1& 2. But he's just as dead, along with dozens of other witnesses.

So, what we've learned from the above is that Jowenko completely supported the collapse mechanism of the Twin Towers, which you failed to mention, and that years after he mentioned that he thought WTC7 was a controlled demolition (in which no lives were lost, and no plausible motive exists for executing)...he died in a single-car crash with his large dog in the car, and although you have no evidence of foul-play, you assert that it was murder, after he had already said his worst years before. Oh, OK

I already addressed Barry Jennings, and you will grab on to anything to promote your cause, even if it means leaving out the fact that Jowenko said that the Twin Towers collapsed exactly as the 'official version' dictates, while chastising others, who have not been corrected for their mistakes, as you have...while continuing to repeat them. LAME.


Btodd
 
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ManFromUncle

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He wasn't articulating a problem with mere 'access', but instead, a problem of logistics. People like you who pretend that wiring every single part of every column to collapse in perfectly-timed succession, ignore just how complicated that is.


Btodd

LOL you just made my argument. Yes it is complicated to make a skyscraper disappear in 14 seconds. Yet people like you expect us to believe that 19 Arabs with box cutters and one hammer of an airplane could do it. Twice in a row. And then a third for good measure. Good luck with that one too.
 
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Btodd

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LOL you just made my argument. Yes it is complicated to make a skyscraper disappear in 14 seconds. Yet people like you expect us to believe that 19 Arabs with box cutters and one hammer of an airplane could do it. Twice in a row. And then a third for good measure. Good luck with that one too.


For rhetorical effect, and an aversion to facts, weren't you supposed to say '19 arabs living in caves'? I don't want you to miss a chance to use hyperbole to exaggerate/misrepresent the truth. ^_^


Btodd
 
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LostMarbels

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He wasn't articulating a problem with mere 'access', but instead, a problem of logistics. People like you who pretend that wiring every single part of every column to collapse in perfectly-timed succession, ignore just how complicated that is. And that's if it were normal demolitions charges; you contend that they were thermite, which needs to 'melt' the beam horizontally. Good luck with that hypothesis.

Btodd

I have shown you that thermite can in fact cut horizontally. This guy does it in his backyard, on a working class budget with only 2 pounds of homemade thermite. This stuff isn't even close to military grade, is just put together by someone tinkering around, and it works. So it's not plausible that the military with it's 2001 DOD research & development budget of $38.6 billion. Of course not. Only some yahoo in his back yard can do it.

Why do you persist on ignoring good proof?

THERMITE CUTTING STEEL - VALIDATED - EXPERIMENTALLY DEMONSTRATED - YouTube

The next thing people say is.... "Why don't people speak up?"

So I explained that with real bills, and laws on the book that allows the president to lock up dissidents. http://www.christianforums.com/t7769222-13/#post64053085

Look.... this is NOT a conspiracy, or a theory. These laws are enacted and are on the books right now. People are being (as in currently) detained, incarcerated, and are very scared to speak out. Obama himself talks about "prolonged detention" of people that pose future threats. Not only those that have committed crimes, but also those who may one day pose a threat. This is one of the many reasons in current media I began looking into the WTC.

Now listen to the President of the United States.

Obama explains the FEMA Camps - YouTube

Here is the head of the FBI that can't even answer whether or not It is legal for the government to kill American citizens on America soil. Later in the video senator Carl Levin is shown on Cspan arguing the point that the Obama admiration made them take out the wording that would safeguard Americans from being killed in America. Ignore it all you want, but this is real, and it's happening right now.

Fema Camp Documents Leaked - YouTube

Any more question why someone wont speak out? Or why I think the government could have possibly have murdered 3000 people in September 2001?
 
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Psalm 91

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For one, because he worked in water testing.

Why would you believe one man instead of the rest of the people that work at Underwriter's Laboratories, when he was speaking about a project he wasn't even involved in?

Why don't I trust the Underwriter's Laboratories? Because I don't trust anyone anymore, not the government, not the "experts", not anyone involved in anything this big anymore. Why would I? They killed Andrew Breitbart and Michael Hastings. They spy on us every chance they get, through our emails, our phone lines, cameras and satellites. They bribed congressmen to vote for an UNAFFORDABLE CARE ACT which they didn't even read. They are spending us into bankruptcy and selling us to China. They have gotten involved in war after war since the '60's with no plan at all to win, only to kill a lot of people including our own. And now they may have killed 3,000 Americans just to satisfy a bunch of evil old bankers. Why on earth would I trust my government? Why would I trust the "experts" who've either been bought or who side with them to always be on the "right" side politically?

I trust regular people with eyes to see and who ask questions.
 
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HorsieJuice

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The yield strength assigned to any grade of steel is the point at which it will bend and not regain its original shape. So A36 steel -- a mix of carbon and iron, like all steels -- can handle 36,000 pounds per square inch (36 kilopounds) of pressure before it begins to deform, and 52,000 psi of compression before deformation.

36000 psi in what direction? Shear force? Tensile force? Bending? Twisting? This information is useless without information about the design and construction of the steel members themselves.

In the construction of the floors themselves, a mix of A36 and ASTM A 242 steel was used. it's load strength is 46,000 psi.

Again, "load strength" in what direction?


Each tower had 3,800,000 square feet of office space. That would be 34,545 Sq ft pr floor.

It was actually more like 39,000 sq ft / floor. Not all of it was office space.

1 square foot = 144 square inches, so that equals 4,974,480 Sq inches pr floor. That would come to a wopping 2.74 Psi load pr floor being carried by 36,000 to 52,000 psi rated beams. At ground level with all the floors pressing upon them, the beams at the base would be carrying around 301.40 psi. That's allot of weight.

Your math assumes that each floor has a solid base of steel beneath it upon which the weight is distributed evenly. Your assumption is incorrect. The weight of the entire floor is borne by the vertical members on which it rests.

If you want to find out how much compressive force per unit area was being placed upon the vertical members, you should not be dividing the weight of each floor by the surface area of each floor. Instead, you ought to be dividing the weight of the floor by the combined surface area of the horizontal cross sections of those vertical members. The surface area of the cross sections is only a small fraction of the surface area of the entire floor. Otherwise, the building would've been a giant block of steel.



But even that doesn't paint the whole picture (by a long shot), because that's not the only direction in which forces would be applied. There would be a significant about of twisting as some of the load-bearing members were compromised (either by the impact or by the fire). A collapse in one area can pull down and compromise parts of other areas.


Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.

How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?

Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?

I've already pointed out the flaws in your assumptions about surface area, so I'll leave that alone.

If you're really interested in this, go google the difference between static and dynamic loads. A 100lb load in motion imparts WAY more force than a 100lb that isn't moving. The differences between static and dynamic loads are significant enough that if you study engineering, many schools cover each in different semesters.

If you don't believe me, try setting a wine glass on a granite countertop, then try dropping it onto the countertop from about 12". Tell me if you see a difference in the outcome.
 
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LostMarbels

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Hey HorsieJuice,


I'm not the best at any of this. That is why I'm asking questions about it instead of stating fact. I just do not see the math of how much force would be dissipated from the falling object. I also stated that I did not take into account the top floors being lighter than the base, and just made a estimated guess off of what I understood. I'm trying to learn how to make the correct cauculations, and my questions are not rebuttal. Im curious is all.

This was just a example to see if the math was right in the example itself inorder to see if the conversion from joules to psi, the over all height was correct to the impact and so forth:

In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

Get me pointed in the right direction and then I go from their from yall's help. Thank you.
 
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HorsieJuice

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In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

Get me pointed in the right direction and then I go from their from yall's help. Thank you.

Some of us have already tried to point you in the right direction. Two of us now have pointed out your flawed calculations of PSI. You've ignored those comments as well as others trying to explain the flaws in your reasoning.

But to rehash it again: what you're doing when you are calculating these PSI numbers is taking the weight of the floor and dividing it by the surface area of the floor. That would be fine if the floor were flat and sitting flat on a solid block of steel, with all of its load evenly distributed on the floor below it. But that's not what the situation was not - the floor's weight was not distributed evenly; it was supported by the vertical support beams, and ONLY those beams.

To draw an analogy to how absurd your calculations are, let me give you the example of my car:

My car is 159.3" long, 66.7" wide, and weighs 3638 lb. Using your assumptions (i.e. that the bottom of the car is flat and the weight is evenly distributed on the ground below it), it should be imparting a force upon the ground of approximately 0.34 PSI.

But it's not. All of the weight of the car is being borne by the portion of the ground that's coming in contact with the tires, and I can know how much that total force is, because it's exactly the same as the air pressure within my tires. And it winds up being 100-150x what your assumptions would calculate (depending on how much air I put in my tires)

What you're attempting to calculate are forces experienced by one solid, flat steel block falling onto another solid, flat steel block. Unfortunately for your theories, the WTC towers were not solid, flat steel blocks.

Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi.

Regarding your calculation of 4101 J, I have no idea where you got that from.

A body that has fallen 3.77m will have a velocity of 8.6m/s. (v = (2gd)^0.5)

At that velocity, a body with a mass of 1kg will have 36.98 J of kinetic energy. (E = 0.5m(v^2))

So, assuming your estimated mass is correct (111Mkg), those 18 floors would have about 4.1 Billion Joules of kinetic energy after they'd fallen a single floor.

Also, as you can see from the kinetic energy formula, energy increases with the square of speed, so as the speed doubles, the amount of kinetic energy quadruples. After 3.77m, the velocity is 8.6m/s; after 15.1m (or about 3.5 floors), the velocity is 17.2m/s.
 
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LostMarbels

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Ok. I have to be honest, I'm pretty much screwed when it comes to math. Thank you for the explanation.

Being honest....

I just can't for some reason believe that the top of a building could perfectly destroy the vast majority of the rest of the building. I have seen it many, many times, and I have never seen what I have seen concerning 911. I worked in construction and demo for years. I've watched steel structures sit there in defiance, even after being demo'ed. I have never see a pyroclastic cloud, red hot even molten metal, or even debris burning for weeks. I'm never goanna be able to explain it mathematically. So I'm going to try to find out by different means.
 
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