7th Trumpet Rapture?

[jerry kelso]

Once again, you have ignored the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Once again, you have ignored the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

.

baberean2,

1 The time of the dead is prophetic from the days of the 7th Trumpet days which is the middle of the tribulation.
The 7 vials have to happen after that before the time of the dead.
So your time factor of the fulfillment is wrong. Jerry kelso

Once again, you have ignored the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

.

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1 The time of the dead is prophetic from the days of the 7th Trumpet days which is the middle of the tribulation.
The 7 vials have to happen after that before the time of the dead.
So your time factor of the fulfillment is wrong. Jerry kelso

Your error is the assumption that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Since Christ comes in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know you cannot be correct.

Therefore, your whole viewpoint of the Book of Revelation cannot be correct.

Any doctrine based on a fundamental error, will only produce more error.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Your error is the assumption that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Since Christ comes in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know you cannot be correct.

Therefore, your whole viewpoint of the Book of Revelation cannot be correct.

Any doctrine based on a fundamental error, will only produce more error.

.

baberean2,

1. You misunderstand chronological order.

2. The Seals, Trumpets, and vials are all chronological.
The parentheticals work in and around them and some may cover areas more than one set of the judgements.

3. Revelation 17 and 18 are not chronological but they are side by side for contrast and to distinguish between the differences.

4. Revelation 16:16 is Armageddon and the latter verses of that chapter that will involve the fall of literal Babylon Revelation 18. 19 is the church at the marriage of the Lamb and fixing to come out of Heaven to do battle at Armageddon.
Chapter 20 falls in suite so the 1000 year reign will begin when Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit and the First Resurrection happens in Revelation 15:1-2 right before the vials. The vials are for the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2.
The actual 1000 Years is between the 1st and 2nd Resurrections. Towards the end of the 1000 Years Satan will be loosed out of the pit to deceive the nations one more time and God shall throw fire out of Heaven and destroy them and throw Satan into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet was thrown in a 1000 years earlier. Then the GWTJ will begin for the sinners.

5. So not everything is chronological. But the seal, trumpets, and vials are.
This is why the 7th trumpet days are not the fulfillment of the kingdom taken by Christ because the vials have to happen first. This is why they are prophetic in chapter 11.
So once again you misunderstand about chronological order and you wrench out the context. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

"I Repeat" Matthew 25:31-46 Is About The "Final Judgment"!

Jerry you will closely note your "Novel" isn't seen in the clear teaching of scripture.

Jesus returns in the "final judgment", eternal life, eternal kingdom, as Matthew 25:31-46 clearly teaches below.

There will be no 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans running around, as Jesus sits on a throne watching humans dying, a false teaching.

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nation's are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

"Eternity Begins"!

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

truth7t7,

1. You are dreaming because Christ has to rule and reign to get rid of sin and rebellion and death 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
If the final judgement is when he first gets there then he will not have ruled and reigned and that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. So you are wrong.

2. The 1000 year reign is after the Battle of Armageddon when Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit. He is not loosed until after the 1000 years to deceive the nations one more time. God the father wil throw down fire from Heaven and kill all the rebels. He will also throw Satan into the lake of fire where the beast and fade proper was a Thousand Years before Read the last verse in Revelation 19 and then read Revelation 20. It is plain as the nose on your face.


3. Matthew 25 is about the judgement of the nations of how they treated physical Israel.
This is not the GWTJ where individual sinners are resurrected and judged both great and small.
So I am sorry but you are totally confused.

4. The 1st and 2 Resurrections are a Thousand Years apart and the sheeps and goats are at the same time.
So once again you are confused.
So there is eternal life but this is a different judgement.

5. The KoH reign is an eternal kingdom. However the 1st 1000 Years purpose is to put down sin and rebellion and death. After this the Son will give back the KoH on earth to God the father so God can be all in all. The KoG universal will be in harmony and that is the goal. So once again you are not reconciling the scripture together correctly because you are confused with two different text to begin with. Jerry kelso

 

[Truth7t7]

truth7t7,

1. You are dreaming because Christ has to rule and reign to get rid of sin and rebellion and death 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
If the final judgement is when he first gets there then he will not have ruled and reigned and that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. So you are wrong.

2. The 1000 year reign is after the Battle of Armageddon when Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit. He is not loosed until after the 1000 years to deceive the nations one more time. God the father wil throw down fire from Heaven and kill all the rebels. He will also throw Satan into the lake of fire where the beast and fade proper was a Thousand Years before Read the last verse in Revelation 19 and then read Revelation 20. It is plain as the nose on your face.


3. Matthew 25 is about the judgement of the nations of how they treated physical Israel.
This is not the GWTJ where individual sinners are resurrected and judged both great and small.
So I am sorry but you are totally confused.

4. The 1st and 2 Resurrections are a Thousand Years apart and the sheeps and goats are at the same time.
So once again you are confused.
So there is eternal life but this is a different judgement.

5. The KoH reign is an eternal kingdom. However the 1st 1000 Years purpose is to put down sin and rebellion and death. After this the Son will give back the KoH on earth to God the father so God can be all in all. The KoG universal will be in harmony and that is the goal. So once again you are not reconciling the scripture together correctly because you are confused with two different text to begin with. Jerry kelso

Jerry verses 23-24 below clearly teach Jesus was the first resurrection of the dead, and the believer will be resurrected at the "Second Coming" then comes "THE END"!

There is no 1000 year kingdom between verses 23 & 24

Verse 54 below clearly teaches that at the event of the second coming and resurrection "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" THE END!

Verse 26 is fulfilled "The Last Enemy Death" is defeated.

The End, Eternity Begins!

1 Corinthians 15:23-54KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[BABerean2]

So once again you misunderstand about chronological order and you wrench out the context. Jerry kelso

In other words it is OK for you to use "parentheticals" to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work, but anyone else who did the same thing would "wrench out of context".

Now I see how it works.

You make the text of Revelation 11:15-18, a "parenthetical", because if the 7th trumpet, is the "last" trumpet in the Bible, then your doctrine falls apart.

And if "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs at Revelation 11:18, then your doctrine falls apart, so you make these "parentheticals".

But if some of us insist that Revelation chapter 20 is a "parenthetical", because the "time of the judgment of the dead" is in chapter 11, then we are "wrenching out of context".


Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


.

 

[jerry kelso]

In other words it is OK for you to use "parentheticals" to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work, but anyone else who did the same thing would "wrench out of context".

Now I see how it works.

You make the text of Revelation 11:15-18, a "parenthetical", because if the 7th trumpet, is the "last" trumpet in the Bible, then your doctrine falls apart.

And if "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs at Revelation 11:18, then your doctrine falls apart, so you make these "parentheticals".

But if some of us insist that Revelation chapter 20 is a "parenthetical", because the "time of the judgment of the dead" is in chapter 11, then we are "wrenching out of context".


Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


.

baberean 2,

1. There you go again making false accusations because you don’t understand what a parenthetical is.

2. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are in chronological order.
Another words the 7 seals are finished before the 7 trumpets begin to sound and the 7 vials begin after the 7th trumpet days are over. The wording proves that.

3. The parentheticals interrupt the main thought. I’ve explained this long time ago and it obviously went right over your head.

4. The first 6 seals happen consecutively.
The sealing of the 144,000 are sealed right before the 7th seal which is the silence in Heaven.
This silence in Heaven is a Jewish
Yom Kippur service. It lasts about 30 minutes and the pre ceremony preparation of the trumpet angels prove this.
The multitudes of all kindreds and tongues etc. are another company
which are comprised of tribulation saints who go to Heaven and are united with the raptured saints and old testaments gone on before. The time factor are martyrs throuout the tribulation and mostly those wo later don’t take the mark such as Revelation 15:1-2 which are the same as Revelation 20:4-6.

5. Next the first 4 angels sound then the 5th and 6th sound.
Between the 6th and 7th trumpet you have the Mighty angel, the mystery of God announced and John told to eat the book which would be sweet and bitter.
The next parenthetical is the AOD with the temple and the two witnesses which vary in time factors somewhat.
We know the AOD happens in the middle of the tribulation for the Antichrist will break his peace treaty Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week.
2 Thessalonians 2 shows him standing in the temple claiming he is God.
Some believe the two witnesses have their ministry in the first half of the tribulation but I believe it is the last which is the time of Jacob’s trouble.

6. 11:15-18 is prophetic in the days of the 7th trumpet angel.

7. The Sun Clothed Woman represents Israel who is fleeing into the wilderness and gives birth to a real man child at that time that is caught up to God and his throne.
This is not a parenthetical of Christ from birth to ascension because John had already seen that. If one wants to use it as a double reference to show the great confrontation between Good and Satan fine. But it cannot be actual fulfillment at this time because of the time factor of things hereafter Revelation 1:19. This is why it is the man child who is raptured from the clutches who Satan is pursuing and can’t get them. They are the first part of the remnant of her seed which denotes birth Revelation 12:17. They are also the first fruits of the tribulation in Heaven Revelation 14:1-5.

8. The angels war in Heaven at this time. Why? Because of the accuser of the brethren which is kicked out of Heaven.
This is the mystery of God from Revelation 10, not the second coming prophesied in Revelation 11:15.
The Second Coming was no mystery for all the Jews knew about the Second coming and you can’t prove that it was a mystery.
Then Satan goes after the woman (Israel) who brought forth the Manchild ( the 144,000) and chases her into the wilderness where the antichrist armies cannot get her for she flees into the places of refuge in the wilderness. The other half of the remnant of her seed are scattered elsewhere. This is the end of the 7 the trumpet days. Chapter 12 is not a parenthetical. It is happening in real time. This is where Satan is fixing to give over his power and seat and authority to the Beast and his kingdom Revelation 13:1-2.

9. I am going to stop here for you to digest that.
I repeat Revelation 11:15-18 is prophetic and not happening in the days of the 7th trumpet angel.
You want it happening at that exact time because most of the seals and trumpets happen when they immediately sound among other reasons and you are wrong.

10. I don’t have any more in my eye, that is your ignorant accusation because of lack of knowledge. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry verses 23-24 below clearly teach Jesus was the first resurrection of the dead, and the believer will be resurrected at the "Second Coming" then comes "THE END"!

There is no 1000 year kingdom between verses 23 & 24

Verse 54 below clearly teaches that at the event of the second coming and resurrection "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" THE END!

Verse 26 is fulfilled "The Last Enemy Death" is defeated.

The End, Eternity Begins!

1 Corinthians 15:23-54KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

truth7t7,

You can disagree all you want but you haven’t and cannot rebut the scriptural context I presented. Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

We know the AOD happens in the middle of the tribulation for the Antichrist will break his peace treaty Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28, which is a reference to the New Covenant of Christ.

Therefore, you are proven wrong by the 1599 Geneva Bible and also by the NKJV Bible.

.

 

[Truth7t7]

baberean 2,

1. There you go again making false accusations because you don’t understand what a parenthetical is.

2. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are in chronological order.
Another words the 7 seals are finished before the 7 trumpets begin to sound and the 7 vials begin after the 7th trumpet days are over. The wording proves that.

3. The parentheticals interrupt the main thought. I’ve explained this long time ago and it obviously went right over your head.

4. The first 6 seals happen consecutively.
The sealing of the 144,000 are sealed right before the 7th seal which is the silence in Heaven.
This silence in Heaven is a Jewish
Yom Kippur service. It lasts about 30 minutes and the pre ceremony preparation of the trumpet angels prove this.
The multitudes of all kindreds and tongues etc. are another company
which are comprised of tribulation saints who go to Heaven and are united with the raptured saints and old testaments gone on before. The time factor are martyrs throuout the tribulation and mostly those wo later don’t take the mark such as Revelation 15:1-2 which are the same as Revelation 20:4-6.

5. Next the first 4 angels sound then the 5th and 6th sound.
Between the 6th and 7th trumpet you have the Mighty angel, the mystery of God announced and John told to eat the book which would be sweet and bitter.
The next parenthetical is the AOD with the temple and the two witnesses which vary in time factors somewhat.
We know the AOD happens in the middle of the tribulation for the Antichrist will break his peace treaty Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week.
2 Thessalonians 2 shows him standing in the temple claiming he is God.
Some believe the two witnesses have their ministry in the first half of the tribulation but I believe it is the last which is the time of Jacob’s trouble.

6. 11:15-18 is prophetic in the days of the 7th trumpet angel.

7. The Sun Clothed Woman represents Israel who is fleeing into the wilderness and gives birth to a real man child at that time that is caught up to God and his throne.
This is not a parenthetical of Christ from birth to ascension because John had already seen that. If one wants to use it as a double reference to show the great confrontation between Good and Satan fine. But it cannot be actual fulfillment at this time because of the time factor of things hereafter Revelation 1:19. This is why it is the man child who is raptured from the clutches who Satan is pursuing and can’t get them. They are the first part of the remnant of her seed which denotes birth Revelation 12:17. They are also the first fruits of the tribulation in Heaven Revelation 14:1-5.

8. The angels war in Heaven at this time. Why? Because of the accuser of the brethren which is kicked out of Heaven.
This is the mystery of God from Revelation 10, not the second coming prophesied in Revelation 11:15.
The Second Coming was no mystery for all the Jews knew about the Second coming and you can’t prove that it was a mystery.
Then Satan goes after the woman (Israel) who brought forth the Manchild ( the 144,000) and chases her into the wilderness where the antichrist armies cannot get her for she flees into the places of refuge in the wilderness. The other half of the remnant of her seed are scattered elsewhere. This is the end of the 7 the trumpet days. Chapter 12 is not a parenthetical. It is happening in real time. This is where Satan is fixing to give over his power and seat and authority to the Beast and his kingdom Revelation 13:1-2.

9. I am going to stop here for you to digest that.
I repeat Revelation 11:15-18 is prophetic and not happening in the days of the 7th trumpet angel.
You want it happening at that exact time because most of the seals and trumpets happen when they immediately sound among other reasons and you are wrong.

10. I don’t have any more in my eye, that is your ignorant accusation because of lack of knowledge. Jerry kelso

Yeah I understand "Parenthetical"

It' a word used by dispensationalism to justify Revelation chapter 11:15-18 destroying the foundations of its teaching.

 

[Riberra]

I know this may seem like a silly question... But I have to ask due to all the differing opinions out there on when the rapture will take place.

First, I'd like to state that I am operating based off the assumption that the rapture of the Church occurs at the 7th trumpet blast.

That is very unlikely that we will hear any of the 7 TRIBULATION Trumpets sounding in Heaven [Revelation 8]

Who out there shares that viewpoint, and why? I'm very interested in this. You could say that this is a mid-trib rapture idea, and where I heard about this was at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, MO.

But Personally, like most believers, I'm not sure when the rapture will happen...

Anyway, make some good arguments for me! I'd love to indulge in some critical thinking here

If you read carefully the text of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 you will realize that there is no mention of going to Heaven ....

What the text say is that UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS the dead in Christ will be resurrected and the believers still alive and REMAIN will be caught up with the dead believers resurrected -----> to meet Jesus in the Clouds in The AIR to WHERE Jesus Will be UNTO HIS COMING.....

The Coming of Jesus is clearly cited to happen after the 6TH VIAL
Revelation 16:12-17

The Coming of Jesus will happen AFTER THE 42 months Reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13:3-5-------

The 42 months reign of the Beast [Revelation 13:3-5] will begin AFTER that the 7 TH Trumpet will sound in Heaven[Revelation 11:15] ---->[The THIRD WOE [Revelation 8:13]----

Revelation 11:18 tell us that God's Wrath will begin AT THE 7 TH TRUMPET
The Wrath of God will include sending a strong DELUSION
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 ----->Satan and his angels will be cast out of Heaven [Revelation 12:7-12]...Satan [The Dragon]will give power to the Beast/AC[Angel Abaddon [Revelation 9:11 --Revelation 17:8] to deceive the Nations during 42 months with the false prophet [Revelation 13]with great signs and wonders ie[the strong delusion send by God]

 

[jerry kelso]

Yeah I understand "Parenthetical"

It' a word used by dispensationalism to justify Revelation chapter 11:15-18 destroying the foundations of its teaching.

That’s just your opinion and conjecture. You have no scriptural proof of anything on this subject. You can’t rebut the truth.

2. Revelation 11:15 is prophetic and will come to pass at the end of the tribulation on earth. The saints being reward will take place in Heaven and could take place between the 7th trumpet and the marriage of the lamb.
The trumpets will be done blowing and ended before the vials start.
Revelation 15:1-2 are the martyrs that go to Heaven in the first resurrection Revelation 20:4-6.
After that the vials begin and they are the judgement on the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2. It will lead to Armageddon in Revelation 16:16.
Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

There is no scripture that says God desolated the temple.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

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[Truth7t7]

That’s just your opinion and conjecture. You have no scriptural proof of anything on this subject. You can’t rebut the truth.

2. Revelation 11:15 is prophetic and will come to pass at the end of the tribulation on earth. The saints being reward will take place in Heaven and could take place between the 7th trumpet and the marriage of the lamb.
The trumpets will be done blowing and ended before the vials start.
Revelation 15:1-2 are the martyrs that go to Heaven in the first resurrection Revelation 20:4-6.
After that the vials begin and they are the judgement on the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2. It will lead to Armageddon in Revelation 16:16.
Jerry Kelso

Jerry you believe and teach the book of Revelation is in chronoligical order.

You folks have to do something when you come to Revelatiom 11:15-18 that shows the final judgment, eternal kingdom?

Oooops, thats a paranthetical "Smiles"

 

[jerry kelso]

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

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baberean2,

God didn’t desolate their house or the temple. It was because of their disobedience.
And that has nothing to do with the AOD of Daniel.
You are getting more ridiculous and want to generalize things to try to be right and you are not doing a good job to say the least.
Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry you believe and teach the book of Revelation is in chronoligical order.

You folks have to do something when you come to Revelatiom 11:15-18 that shows the final judgment, eternal kingdom?

Oooops, thats a paranthetical "Smiles"

truth7t7,
You still have nothing to say.
You have the right to believe whatever you want but you have shown no scriptural truth.
Please, if all you are going to do is not show any forethought in exegesis why do you post? Makes no sense. Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

God didn’t desolate their house or the temple. It was because of their disobedience.
And that has nothing to do with the AOD of Daniel.
You are getting more ridiculous and want to generalize things to try to be right and you are not doing a good job to say the least.
Jerry kelso

Jerry,

Christ told the Jewish leadership that their house would be left "desolate", in Matthew 23:38.

How much clearer could it be?

God used the Romans to destroy the temple and the city in the same way that He allowed the Babylonians to destroy it earlier.

What does it have to do with the AOD of Daniel.

During 167 BC the forces of Antiochus Epiphanes killed thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The same thing would happen during 70 AD, when the temple was made "desolate".

But you still insist there is something wrong with me, instead of admitting that your Dispensational Theology is wrong.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

Christ told the Jewish leadership that their house would be left "desolate", in Matthew 23:38.

How much clearer could it be?

God used the Romans to destroy the temple and the city in the same way that He allowed the Babylonians to destroy it earlier.

What does it have to do with the AOD of Daniel.

During 167 BC the forces of Antiochus Epiphanes killed thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The same thing would happen during 70 AD, when the temple was made "desolate".

But you still insist there is something wrong with me, instead of admitting that your Dispensational Theology is wrong.

.

baberean2,

1. The exact context was about the Abomination of Desolation in the tribulation.
God didn’t desolate the temple.

2. Then you go out of context with Matthew 23:37-39 which was about the house of Israel and it was because of their disobedience not because God desolated it himself.

<staff edit>
Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]