7th Trumpet Rapture?

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Truth7t7

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Hard to believe in a Baptist church they are teaching against Darby and Scofield's dispensationalism.

50-60 years ago the vast majority, if not all Baptist churchs were teaching this error. To carry a Scofield reference bible was a prestigious symbol.

Glad to see the cat is out of the bag, and this teaching is being swept out the door!
 
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iamlamad

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Jerry you believe and teach the book of Revelation is in chronoligical order.

You folks have to do something when you come to Revelatiom 11:15-18 that shows the final judgment, eternal kingdom?

Oooops, thats a paranthetical "Smiles"
It IS in Chronological order. It is up to those that don't believe it to prove it by scripture to the rest of us.
As for your text, have you ever heard of prophecy - foretelling future events?
 
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iamlamad

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That’s just your opinion and conjecture. You have no scriptural proof of anything on this subject. You can’t rebut the truth.

2. Revelation 11:15 is prophetic and will come to pass at the end of the tribulation on earth. The saints being reward will take place in Heaven and could take place between the 7th trumpet and the marriage of the lamb.
The trumpets will be done blowing and ended before the vials start.
Revelation 15:1-2 are the martyrs that go to Heaven in the first resurrection Revelation 20:4-6.
After that the vials begin and they are the judgement on the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2. It will lead to Armageddon in Revelation 16:16.
Jerry Kelso
Truth7t7, if you just read the rest of the book, what Jerry said here about your pet text is PROVEN to be truth. I think you just don't want to admit it.
 
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Truth7t7

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It IS in Chronological order. It is up to those that don't believe it to prove it by scripture to the rest of us.
As for your text, have you ever heard of prophecy - foretelling future events?
It's not in chronological order.

Revelation 11:18 is the final Judgment, also seen in Revelation 20:11-15

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 
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iamlamad

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It's not in chronological order.

Revelation 11:18 is the final Judgment, also seen in Revelation 20:11-15

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
It IS in chronological order: 11:18 is FORETELLING chapter 20. Did you notice WHO SAID those words in chapter 11?
 
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jerry kelso

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1. I never followed Scofield.
To send Scofield to hell is ignorance personified. Why? Because the preacher misunderstands the earthly calling of Israel.

2. That preacher is not correct about Dispensationalism being a glorification of the flesh and Israel.
Why? Because he thinks dispensationalists believe salvation was by descendants.
If I wanted to give one scripture to prove that I could cite Salvation is of the Jews. If this was taken at face value it would be of the flesh and leave Christ out of the picture.
Neither is it a glorification of Israel for Jews could not save anyone.
Salvation of the Jews means that they were given the covenants, promises, and the oracles of God.
They were a called out nation in the Old Testament just like Christians are called out in New Testament times.
Both Israel and the Christians basic job was and is to propagate the gospel.
Israel’s calling; Genesis 12:1-3; Romans 2:17-29; 9:4-7; 11:25-29.
They messed up every generation and bit the dust in Jesus Day because of their rejection by not repenting.
The 2nd coming the Jews will be regathered and made a blessing to all the nations Matthew 24:29-31; Romans 11:25:29; Isaiah 11:10-15.

3. Israel was a nation governed by natural laws and ruled by earthly men who were to be responsible to God for their administration. They had the covenants and promised etc., plus proselyted Gentiles who had no covenant at that time.
In the millennial kingdom will be a government in Zion where the law will go out. Nations will be blessed by Israel propagating the gospel.
The eternal feast will be in Israel in which nations will have to come up and celebrate.
David will be king of Israel and the apostles will rule the twelve tribes. Christ will be the head of all the nations. Read Deuteronomy 28:13; Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Luke 1:23; Romans 11:29.

4. Salvation was by grace through faith and has always been. Dispensationalists believe this.
What is different is the revelation of how God dealt with people in different ages in their daily lives. The knowledge of the redemptive plan was gradual.
From Cain and Abel people understood about a sacrifice. Cain’s was wrong and Abel’s was right which was the sacrificial Lamb.
All these things about sacrifice were types and shadows all represented Jesus.
Genesis 3:15 was the first prophecy about Christ the sacrifice but Adam and Eve didn’t understand much about this.
Even in Jesus Day the disciples understood much more than the Antediluvians, but even the disciples still were baffled about the fullness of the sacrifice being Jesus after he died and rose again.
The law was never meant to save a person and neither was the blood of bulls and goats. It was all they had at that time and they had to perform the law and live in all of it.
They believed by grace through faith in the revelation they had.
They were saved but not to the uttermost and that is why when Christ died the blood went all the way back to the Old Testament saints and took away the transgressions of their sins completely. The Old Testament saints had to wait till the cross so we could be perfected together. Read Hebrews 11:40.

5. The preacher is going to be surprised when he sees Scofield in Heaven and realize he wasn’t so perfect himself.
Listen, I don’t believe in UES but I believe Charles Stanley is a great Christian and will be in Heaven. He will be judged by his doctrine like that preacher will be.

6. The preacher is confused about the seed and the land promised to Israel. I have already shown that Israel will have their land and David as their King and the apostles as rulers over the tribes of Israel and Israel will be where the law will go out of Zion.
This is in the Abrahamic Covenant about the land for Israel and the head of the nations the Davidic Covenant.
The Abrahamic Covenant in Isaac’s seed is spiritual and includes Jews and Gentiles for salvation which will be the NC.
The church age saints will have rulership throughout the kingdom but not at the head of the nations.
Jerry kelso
 
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iamlamad

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Is "FORETELLING" sorta like "THE SAME EVENT" taught in a parallel teaching.

Smiles.
It is simply telling in advance something that will happen in the future. In case you missed it, God has done this countless times in the bible.
 
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iamlamad

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baberean2,

1. Jesus is at the head of the nations in Jerusalem. I never denied that. He is the supreme ruler over all the earth.

2. Israel will be living in Israel and will help administer governmental rule over the nations for the law will go out of Zion.
The Church age saints will administer more localized regions throughout the kingdom.
Why do you believe such foolishness? Do you think Christ is going to do everything rulership wise? If so there is no reason for the saints.
Revela2:26-27 says the church age saints will rule with a rod of iron just like Christ. But that doesn’t mean that we will be supreme like Christ.
Your logic comes off like Christ is the only that’s going to reign and if anybody else ruled they are going to be equal with God or greater. That’s stupid and has no common sense. Jerry Kelso
Well said, Jerry!
 
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Truth7t7

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It is simply telling in advance something that will happen in the future. In case you missed it, God has done this countless times in the bible.
I agree. Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 are both parallel teachings, showing in advance the "Future Final Judgment"

Can't you clearly see that the book of revelation "Is Not In Chronological Order"

It's parallel teachings of the same event.
 
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iamlamad

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I agree. Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 are both parallel teachings, showing in advance the "Future Final Judgment"

Can't you clearly see that the book of revelation "Is Not In Chronological Order"

It's parallel teachings of the same event.

The point is, these events don't take place in chapter 11, they take place LATER in chapter 20. But John's chronology goes right over your head.

Here are some tips to assist you:
NO vial will be poured out before all 7 trumpets have sounded.
NO trumpet will be sounded until all 7 seals have been opened.
Nothing in a specific chapter will actually take place before events in a previous chapter.
(With minor exceptions: parentheses: Example of parenthesis: 12:1-5 took place at Jesus' birth.)
 
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jgr

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Israel will be living in Israel and will help administer governmental rule over the nations for the law will go out of Zion.

Genetically, Israel is found in every human on the planet. The "Jews" themselves acknowledge and applaud that reality because to them it is the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

Therefore, if "Israel will be living in Israel", the whole human race will be living in Israel.

How will everyone find room?
 
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SeventyOne

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Genetically, Israel is found in every human on the planet. The "Jews" themselves acknowledge and applaud that reality because to them it is the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

Therefore, if "Israel will be living in Israel", the whole human race will be living in Israel.

How will everyone find room?

Here you go, millions of people claiming Jewish descent, who have discouraged inter-tribal marriage through the generations and still hold to a tribal affiliation. And they are practicing muslims. If anyone wants to know where the 144,000 come from after the rapture, it could just very well be from these people.

Connecting with Pashtuns: The Ten Lost Tribes
 
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BABerean2

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Here you go, millions of people claiming Jewish descent, who have discouraged inter-tribal marriage through the generations and still hold to a tribal affiliation. And they are practicing muslims. If anyone wants to know where the 144,000 come from after the rapture, it could just very well be from these people.

Connecting with Pashtuns: The Ten Lost Tribes

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

.
 
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SeventyOne

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1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

.

Not sure if you noticed, but the genealogy of the 144,000 is given to us by scripture. If you think God overstepped His bounds in doing so, perhaps you should go tell Him about it.
 
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BABerean2

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Not sure if you noticed, but the genealogy of the 144,000 is given to us by scripture. If you think God overstepped His bounds in doing so, perhaps you should go tell Him about it.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.


Not sure if you noticed that most of those 12 tribes were carried into captivity by the Assyrians hundreds of years before the time of Christ.
They were "scattered abroad", during the time of James.

They do not exist as a pure bloodline, today.

If you do not believe it, go to the modern State of Israel and ask the Jews there what tribe they come from.

Not sure if you noticed exactly 12,000 from each tribe.
Therefore, the tribes are being used in a symbolic manner.


.
 
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SeventyOne

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Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.


Not sure if you noticed that most of those 12 tribes were carried into captivity by the Assyrians hundreds of years before the time of Christ.
They were "scattered abroad", during the time of James.

They do not exist as a pure bloodline, today.

If you do not believe it, go to the modern State of Israel and ask the Jews there what tribe they come from.

Not sure if you noticed exactly 12,000 from each tribe.
Therefore, the tribes are being used in a symbolic manner.


.

They don't have to know what tribe they are from. Besides, did you read the article? Those people know what tribe they are from.

Sorry, all those links to studies the two of you like to share seem to have missed millions of people. Wonder what else they missed that you are relying on to make your point.
 
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jgr

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Here you go, millions of people claiming Jewish descent, who have discouraged inter-tribal marriage through the generations and still hold to a tribal affiliation. And they are practicing muslims. If anyone wants to know where the 144,000 come from after the rapture, it could just very well be from these people.

Connecting with Pashtuns: The Ten Lost Tribes
The 144,000 are not the issue. The issue is, if the Abrahamic genome is present in essentially every one of the more than 7,000,000,000 human beings on earth, which the "Jews" themselves acknowledge and applaud, then genetically they qualify as Israel. We're told that they will reside within Israel, which is a demographic and logistical impossibility, even after 2/3 have been slaughtered according to dispensational dogma.

Unless, of course, God uses an entirely different set of criteria to determine His Own True Israel.

Criteria such as faith and obedience.
 
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